IRELAND 6 NATIONS SQUAD 2014

[Oldschool]

One of the most important defensive aspects of our game against NZ was players tracking the inside when an All Black was being tackled so that they couldn't get the offload away. It took a savage effort from everyone and was very noticable and effective but not something that would be picked up in the stats.

Thank you expanding my knowledge.

[Dixie Nourmous]

Sorry to be a pain Golfman but could you do something about "TEH" / "THE" not being a spelling nazi but it's getting beyond a joke at this stage.

I am sure he is only spelling it phonetically, he can't help it.

[Dixie Nourmous]

Doubt Murray will make the cut to be honest M1. Reddan has been in unbelievable form, and Murray has been pretty slow paced against poor opposition since coming back from injury.

i know you are being sarcastic, but i wouldn't be surprised if that did happen. i do like reddan, he is a proud munster man and i have had many chances to talk rugby with him over the years, but it is MY opinion that he shouldn't be playing at international level.

look this is team ireland, and unlike many rugby fans i do support ireland and not just the players who play for my province. So i do not like the thought of my irish team becoming something i struggle to connect with.
I could handle 23 players being from 1 province if that was the best 23, but going on the autumn internationals and the players picked for the 6n squad, it seems like there is only one criteria for selection.

Are you advocating a quota system for the national team so that one eyed eejits like yourself can 'feel connected' with the team?

If you were truly an Irish supporter as you claim to be then you should have no problem in feeling connected to the team as what province the players are from doesn't matter, right?

Which is it genius?

[Dixie Nourmous]

Joe's plan for a clean sheet in Lansdowne and one away win for the 6N is a typically realistic outlook but is he targeting Twickenham or SdF for an away win?

England are better prepared but we have a mental block against Les Bleus (not to mention the red menace coming to Dublin).

I reckon he is planning with a view to winning both away matches, but I'd say that maybe a bit more emphasis is being placed on the French match at the moment. Simple fact is that they are more unsettled than England, are unlikely to have as solid a defensive structure and have a weaker coaching team. There is also the fact that the crowd can be turned against them, something that is unlikely to happen in Twickenham.

[ronk]

Getting the ability to beat France in Paris (&@ home) is the key to the 6N. So we need to start doing it.

[Dixie Nourmous]

Ah now, one eyed joe isn't even making an effort to hide his extreme bias.
As always there will be talk about how well players x,y and z understand his system from being at leinster, if that is true then should joe really have taken on this job? should a coach who feels unable to coach really be a national team coach?

This is the first year ever that ireland have 3 very strong teams, each into the knock out stages of the hec, completely on merit. We have ulster who are now irelands top team, with the best defense in the hc. we have munster who were the second best irish team to qualify for a home quarter while being the top try scorers in the hc, and current rabo leaders. Yet if you were asked to judge irish teams based on this selection it would read very differently.

In all fairness i spoke with a few real leinster fans today in work and even they were embarrassed by it, so this is by no means a go at leinster rugby, but my god, your former coach is a bit of a joke.

Not unlike your former coach, who is a full joke... Main difference is that JS hasn't been sacked for being a rubbish coach.

[Dixie Nourmous]

Getting the ability to beat France in Paris (&@ home) is the key to the 6N. So we need to start doing it.

And they are more likely to be vulnerable this year, but the Fra V Eng match will tell a lot on that front. As ever France are just as likely to get the wooden spoon as a Grandslam.

[TrapperChamonix]

Getting the ability to beat France in Paris (&@ home) is the key to the 6N. So we need to start doing it.

3 things I hope that Joe can do in his term

1. Remove our inability (fear) to win in Paris. It was 28 years before we won away in 2000, but least we forget its already a gap of 14 years since winning there.
2. Beat NZ and remove the stigma surrounding our record with them. Since 2000, we've removed the fear we have of Oz and SA. We might not win but we are genuine contenders when playing them in the AI.
3. Beat Any SH team on their home patch. Beating Oz in the RWC was great, but we need to be able to win on one of these tours.


Oh and if he can win a GS or RWC along the way that would be good as well.

[Fireworks]

Ah now, one eyed joe isn't even making an effort to hide his extreme bias.
As always there will be talk about how well players x,y and z understand his system from being at leinster, if that is true then should joe really have taken on this job? should a coach who feels unable to coach really be a national team coach?

This is the first year ever that ireland have 3 very strong teams, each into the knock out stages of the hec, completely on merit. We have ulster who are now irelands top team, with the best defense in the hc. we have munster who were the second best irish team to qualify for a home quarter while being the top try scorers in the hc, and current rabo leaders. Yet if you were asked to judge irish teams based on this selection it would read very differently.

In all fairness i spoke with a few real leinster fans today in work and even they were embarrassed by it, so this is by no means a go at leinster rugby, but my god, your former coach is a bit of a joke.

Not unlike your former coach, who is a full joke... Main difference is that JS hasn't been sacked for being a rubbish coach.

What drivel. I support Ireland and then Leinster in that order. In my opinion the current squad is the strongest from the available fit players. There can always be discussions over x player who someone thinks should be included but in this case I am not sure there are any major close calls. Zebo is the only one who I think could be further up the pecking order but he is just back from injury and will probably appear later in the competition.

Any coach is judged by his results. The last coach was a complete unmitigated disaster who did have an obvious bias that went beyond arguable 50/50 calls. Joe will be judged on the results but as is well reported he has told all the p;layers what they need to work on to be included so it is up to them to give him selection problems.

Ranking the provincial teams is a bit tricky when you consider the difference in who they had to play. Swap the Leinster and Munster and you might have one less Irish province in the quarters while we would have loved having an Italian team in our group.

I think it is a good squad and look forward to hearing the team

[Lar]

Getting the ability to beat France in Paris (&@ home) is the key to the 6N. So we need to start doing it.

3 things I hope that Joe can do in his term

1. Remove our inability (fear) to win in Paris. It was 28 years before we won away in 2000, but least we forget its already a gap of 14 years since winning there.
2. Beat NZ and remove the stigma surrounding our record with them. Since 2000, we've removed the fear we have of Oz and SA. We might not win but we are genuine contenders when playing them in the AI.
3. Beat Any SH team on their home patch. Beating Oz in the RWC was great, but we need to be able to win on one of these tours.


Oh and if he can win a GS or RWC along the way that would be good as well.

No pressure of expectation so.....

[Edna Kenny]

If I was targeting an away game it would be England. If (and it's still a big if, we beat Scotland and Wales then beating England would be a Triple Crown, which we got quite used to winning until a couple of years ago) then you've got that magic word "momentum", beat Italy and suddenly you've got a chance of glory/heartbreak in Paris.

[Oldschool]

Getting the ability to beat France in Paris (&@ home) is the key to the 6N. So we need to start doing it.

3 things I hope that Joe can do in his term

1. Remove our inability (fear) to win in Paris. It was 28 years before we won away in 2000, but least we forget its already a gap of 14 years since winning there.
2. Beat NZ and remove the stigma surrounding our record with them. Since 2000, we've removed the fear we have of Oz and SA. We might not win but we are genuine contenders when playing them in the AI.
3. Beat Any SH team on their home patch. Beating Oz in the RWC was great, but we need to be able to win on one of these tours.


Oh and if he can win a GS or RWC along the way that would be good as well.

You are dead right to set targets and expectations.
Previous coaches have been allowed to hide and their teams with them.
We are good enough but we haven't proved.

1. and 3. are eminently doable. Australia are always vulnerable but we have never planned to beat them downunder. The last time we did when it was a tour to OZ and we won both test (1979). Playing them after two harsh tests against NZ and the last match of the season is no way to do things. I think it has been changed for the future but talk about preparing to lose. SA at sea level would also be doable but not easy.
2. Is a mental issue. Approx 1 in every 3 games we've played NZ in the last say 10 years we've been well in it but just as in the AI we've grasped defeat from victory. Lets be absolutely clear. We lost that game against NZ, they didn't win it. 5 points up and we handed back possession twice and said right lads screw us once again.

[All Blacks nil]

Getting the ability to beat France in Paris (&@ home) is the key to the 6N. So we need to start doing it.

3 things I hope that Joe can do in his term

1. Remove our inability (fear) to win in Paris. It was 28 years before we won away in 2000, but least we forget its already a gap of 14 years since winning there.
2. Beat NZ and remove the stigma surrounding our record with them. Since 2000, we've removed the fear we have of Oz and SA. We might not win but we are genuine contenders when playing them in the AI.
3. Beat Any SH team on their home patch. Beating Oz in the RWC was great, but we need to be able to win on one of these tours.


Oh and if he can win a GS or RWC along the way that would be good as well.

You are dead right to set targets and expectations.
Previous coaches have been allowed to hide and their teams with them.
We are good enough but we haven't proved.

1. and 3. are eminently doable. Australia are always vulnerable but we have never planned to beat them downunder. The last time we did when it was a tour to OZ and we won both test (1979). Playing them after two harsh tests against NZ and the last match of the season is no way to do things. I think it has been changed for the future but talk about preparing to lose. SA at sea level would also be doable but not easy.
2. Is a mental issue. Approx 1 in every 3 games we've played NZ in the last say 10 years we've been well in it but just as in the AI we've grasped defeat from victory. Lets be absolutely clear. We lost that game against NZ, they didn't win it. 5 points up and we handed back possession twice and said right lads screw us once again.

I agree with you Oldschool that we lost the game v NZ. We didn;t so much lose it as gift the inititative to New zealand in the last five minutes. An obsession with playing the clock down with negative pick and jams, losing ground and leaving little option but to kick was asking for trouble. The couple of kicks mentioned were beauties, one an on the money box kick and the other a 40 yrd touchfinder on the NZ 22.
Ireland regained the ball when NZ chipped ahead outside their 22. Madigan gathered the ball and did well to survive the tackles to set up possession.

So Ireland had the ball at 78 mins and 32 seconds 35m out from the NZ goal. Again they looked to pick and jam and 9 phases and 65 seconds later were penalised for McGrath being off his feet. The Irish mindset once JS missed the penalty with 5 minutes to go was one of negativity. With such a mindset it was infeasible to ask the team to keep possession legally for 5 minutes when as prove a minute and a half was beyond their ability.

The kicks were the best option in both cases, the box kick because Ireland were on backfoot ball had lost 15 yards in three phases and no runners were available and the touch finder because Madigan passed back to Murray who was standing 12 yards behind the gainline with little support. If you have a ploy that guarantees tp deny the opposition a sniff of possession for five minutes do not phone Joe Schmidt, phone the IRFU and you will have a job for life.

[Oldschool]

I agree with you Oldschool that we lost the game v NZ. We didn;t so much lose it as gift the inititative to New zealand in the last five minutes. An obsession with playing the clock down with negative pick and jams, losing ground and leaving little option but to kick was asking for trouble. The couple of kicks mentioned were beauties, one an on the money box kick and the other a 40 yrd touchfinder on the NZ 22.
Ireland regained the ball when NZ chipped ahead outside their 22. Madigan gathered the ball and did well to survive the tackles to set up possession.

So Ireland had the ball at 78 mins and 32 seconds 35m out from the NZ goal. Again they looked to pick and jam and 9 phases and 65 seconds later were penalised for McGrath being off his feet. The Irish mindset once JS missed the penalty with 5 minutes to go was one of negativity. With such a mindset it was infeasible to ask the team to keep possession legally for 5 minutes when as prove a minute and a half was beyond their ability.

The kicks were the best option in both cases, the box kick because Ireland were on backfoot ball had lost 15 yards in three phases and no runners were available and the touch finder because Madigan passed back to Murray who was standing 12 yards behind the gainline with little support. If you have a ploy that guarantees tp deny the opposition a sniff of possession for five minutes do not phone Joe Schmidt, phone the IRFU and you will have a job for life.

As usual NZ0 you do an in depth analysis and then come up with the wrong answer. My advice, don't ring the IRFU, you're not what they are looking for.
PS Keep on disagreeing with me as I get worried when you do agree with me.

[TrapperChamonix]

Getting the ability to beat France in Paris (&@ home) is the key to the 6N. So we need to start doing it.

3 things I hope that Joe can do in his term

1. Remove our inability (fear) to win in Paris. It was 28 years before we won away in 2000, but least we forget its already a gap of 14 years since winning there.
2. Beat NZ and remove the stigma surrounding our record with them. Since 2000, we've removed the fear we have of Oz and SA. We might not win but we are genuine contenders when playing them in the AI.
3. Beat Any SH team on their home patch. Beating Oz in the RWC was great, but we need to be able to win on one of these tours.


Oh and if he can win a GS or RWC along the way that would be good as well.

You are dead right to set targets and expectations.
Previous coaches have been allowed to hide and their teams with them.
We are good enough but we haven't proved.

1. and 3. are eminently doable. Australia are always vulnerable but we have never planned to beat them downunder. The last time we did when it was a tour to OZ and we won both test (1979). Playing them after two harsh tests against NZ and the last match of the season is no way to do things. I think it has been changed for the future but talk about preparing to lose. SA at sea level would also be doable but not easy.
2. Is a mental issue. Approx 1 in every 3 games we've played NZ in the last say 10 years we've been well in it but just as in the AI we've grasped defeat from victory. Lets be absolutely clear. We lost that game against NZ, they didn't win it. 5 points up and we handed back possession twice and said right lads screw us once again.

I'd also argue that 1 is a mental thing as well. We seem to get overwhelmed in Paris, where as England relish the cauldron atmosphere in Paris. They even use it to their advantage, knowing that if they can keep their discipline the French fury will blow its self out and they can still win the game. Sat was a prime example of that even though the French rescued the position at the end.
By contrast Ireland have a decent record in Twickenham. Even before 2000 we would have won there once every 10 years (1 in every 5 games). Scotland have won there twice since the 2nd world war. By contrast, Scotland have won on several occasions in Paris (not lately) but we have won 3 or 4 (I think) times in the same period.

Funnily enough, the this summer tour is a prime opportunity to win a tour in Argentina.

[All Blacks nil]

Firstly Oldschool
I will ignore your "contribution". I don't know what your occupation is but generally I'm sure your decisions are influenced by analysis and are most likely subject to analysis.

Trapper
Absolutely it is a mental thing. Ireland in the past have shown time and time again a lack of mental strength in closing out games. The NZ is obviously the most recent case.
With five minutes to go a "fear of losing" completely takes over the team mindset.
When Ireland were winning by seven points after five minutes what did they do? They kept on doing what put them seven points clear. Agressive intensity in everything they did. Result , they kept the pressure on and extended their lead.
Compare that with the last five minutes when ireland were winning by five points.. Certainly the intensity in the collision had dimimished as Ireland at all costs looked to retain possession. As Ireland's intensity in possession diminished they went too ground in contact too early, they lost ground and had to commit more guys to each breakdown (the last fateful ruck was 5 v 2, probably about to lose more ground.).Result , well what can I say? All of this was a complete opposite to the intensity in possession that put them in a winning position, where guys looked to break tackles and at least make ground in the tackle.

Last year's Welsh game was another game to consider. Ireland at one stage 30-3 ahead were put under pressure as Wales got back into the game. Their response, change their mindset, play negatively and completely discard the playing style that put them in that position. Even though Ireland won by 30-22 they were in distress by full time.

I have always tried to tell my teams that the best way to defend a 1-0 lead is to go 2-0 ahead (soccer analogy). In these two games Ireland have done the equivalent of taking off their strikers (Mick McCarthy style and before the Leinster moral high ground descend that is Mick the manager)and invite the other teams to do their best. We have all played "3 goals in" a game the goalkeeper never wins. Even Nz have been susceptible to this in RWCs. Generally they have been the top team going into each world cup but once the knockout stages kick in the approach that put NZ in that position is discarded and a more "safety first" fear of losing mindset takes over.

Ireland need to work on having the confidence in their own ability, to trust their ability at all times and to be consistent in their approach at all times. As we have seen in the past we are good enough to beat any team playing a certain type of rugby. Now all we got to do is be brave enough and confident enough to close out matches playing the same rugby.
Mental, technical, tactical and physical abilities must all be worked upon. I would say we are technically, physically and tactically as able as any other team. The same way as Joe Bloggs' hamstring needs to be fixed, F Slob needs to get fitter, O Half needs to know where what when and S half needs to be able to pass off both sides our team needs the mental courage and confidence in their ability at all times.
If Joe can facilitate that he will be a long way down the road