Ireland v Scotland, RBS 6 Nations 2014

[Golf Man]

On the Denton near miss - I'd like to see that again.

We were over committed to the drive and got sucked in when it went down. POM was taken out of the defense my the scrum move so he couldnt be there. Thought Jamie did alright to hold him up and the lads finished it off. Didnt see any fault with any of them. Thought it was damn good defense all round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqe-NWRSGM

Have to say I really enjoyed our driving in the scrum yesterday. Really was great to see.

POM is slightly unlucky there but as a back row on opposition ball your priority has to be keeping your eyes up and defending your channel. I have sympathy for him but he shouldn't have lost sight of what was happening.

I really don't think you can blame POM there at all - Scotland got quite lucky and in fairness dis really well to get that close from cr@p ball. I still don't think Heaslip, who to his credit was first to react, does a whole lot to stop Denton and neither does Kearney, albeit more understandably. The most important input defsively there was Murray - I thought that it had been POM but from teh reverse angle it was definitely Murray who made the telling impact

[fourthirtythree]

Kearney got in the way of Heaslip more than anything. Murray was excellent but without POM coming in and adding a bit of heft I'm not sure he would have completed.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

My issue with POm there is that I think he should have loosened his bind and had his eyes up when it was clear the scrum was going to collapse. He might well have been held in by Wilson anyway but I just think it's a mistake to lose track of what was happening around him. Like I said though, I think he was unlucky. It was literally half a second that he lost sight of Denton for, I'm certainly not going to crucify him over it.

[LeinsterLeader]

We were over committed to the drive and got sucked in when it went down. POM was taken out of the defense my the scrum move so he couldnt be there. Thought Jamie did alright to hold him up and the lads finished it off. Didnt see any fault with any of them. Thought it was damn good defense all round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqe-NWRSGM

Have to say I really enjoyed our driving in the scrum yesterday. Really was great to see.

POM is slightly unlucky there but as a back row on opposition ball your priority has to be keeping your eyes up and defending your channel. I have sympathy for him but he shouldn't have lost sight of what was happening.

I really don't think you can blame POM there at all - Scotland got quite lucky and in fairness dis really well to get that close from cr@p ball. I still don't think Heaslip, who to his credit was first to react, does a whole lot to stop Denton and neither does Kearney, albeit more understandably. The most important input defsively there was Murray - I thought that it had been POM but from teh reverse angle it was definitely Murray who made the telling impact

In truth I don't think there actually was a 'most important input' there. I think without the 4 of them doing their part he would have scored. If Heaslip hadn't reacted first Denton would have run over Dave Kearney. DK was then able to slow him down giving Conor Murray time to come around the back and move him towards the touch line. I think he still would have got there if POM hadn't come around and added his bulk to force him out.

All in all I think it was an excellent bit of scrambled defence and a good example of guys backing each other up.

[Logorrhea]

The most important input defsively there was Murray

[Golf Man]

In truth I don't think there actually was a 'most important input' there. I think without the 4 of them doing their part he would have scored. If Heaslip hadn't reacted first Denton would have run over Dave Kearney. DK was then able to slow him down giving Conor Murray time to come around the back and move him towards the touch line. I think he still would have got there if POM hadn't come around and added his bulk to force him out.

All in all I think it was an excellent bit of scrambled defence and a good example of guys backing each other up.

I agree but Denton still looked like he was going to score until Murray's input.

Thought he was excellent yesterday in general

The most important input defsively there was Murray

Going to expand on that?

[Edna Kenny]

Murray's input at the end of the tackle was decisive but if the other 3 weren't involved then it wouldn't have been much use.

It was good teamwork!

[fourthirtythree]

My issue with POm there is that I think he should have loosened his bind and had his eyes up when it was clear the scrum was going to collapse. He might well have been held in by Wilson anyway but I just think it's a mistake to lose track of what was happening around him. Like I said though, I think he was unlucky. It was literally half a second that he lost sight of Denton for, I'm certainly not going to crucify him over it.

And then I'd criticise him later on in the game for looking up and loosening his bind right at the time the rest of the Irish scrum decided to go for an 8 man shove. You can't win!

I thought Murray was the most important element there but still needed O'Mahoney.

And I also thought Murray was fantastic. Look forward to seeing him next week. Look forward to him and Sexton forming a formidable halfback partnership. Imagine if they both click on their A games together? Sexton was half fit in the AIs but is looking good now. It'll be great.

[jezzer]

The most important input defsively there was Murray

I think he's right about that personally.

People can't seem to resist colouring their opinions on provincial lines.

I'd agree mostly with Golf Man's player ratings. POM would have been my motm, with Heaslip close behind and Murray not far behind Jamie. Toner maybe a little better and Touhy a little worse than Golf Man has them. Please God we'll get back to a threequarters that has two of Earls, Zebo, Bowe, Gilroy and Fitz in it. Dave K and Trimble are solid provincial guys who might have a role for Ireland in a team where all the carrying was to come from the pack. But without SOB, Ferris, Cronin our pack isn't any better at breaking the line than most of the other 6N packs. We need more from our 3/4 than RK, DK and Trimble can offer. Ferg has pace but has Shaggyitis - refuses point blank to offload before going down. We need to get two of those 5 on the pitch for every game. Scotland is the only team in the 6N that will have that much possession and do so little with it. Other teams will make us pay for a lack of cutting edge.

Tactically, the game reminded me a lot of some of our tests under Kidney (esp around the 09 GS). Cagey first half followed by a blitzkrieg early doors in the second. Basically turn it into a 40 minute game and dare the other team to live with our intensity in the second half. Too early to call it a tactic, obviously. Could be just a coincidence.

[Oldschool]

On the scrum/Denton near miss.
The ref should have given us a peno.
The scrum collapsed in a heap because they dropped it to protect the ball.
The ref (including the linemen) didn't ref the scrums well at all.

GM you've asked for consistency - Why then are you suggesting Ryan should come back. I don't think he'd add anything anyway (I would say that of course, so ignore the jibe). He has no right to an Ireland jersey until he proves he's better than the current incumbent. That's in the here and now, not last season BTW. The day of entitlement is gone. On top of which, who would you replace him for? POC is the only one you could possibly have in mind because his number of caps is probably greater than the total of McCarthy, Touhy (who has earned his chance if we are being fair) and Toner (only just breaking into the squad himself) and Henderson (not including cameos or maybe even including cameos). All the SRs, POC and Ryan apart, could be playing for Ireland in RWC 2019. That's what squad building is about.
You've championed Killer for long enough. Healy hasn't had much rugby this season and McGrath is just starting his career. So let's just go and disrupt things you say, for what exactly? Killer, like others he will get his chance, one way or another but we've just started into a big tournament and you want Joe to pull the house down and redo the foundations. And then slaughter him when it all goes terribly wrong because it won't be Killers fault whoevers' fault it is.
And for the record I think (and have said so before) Killer is a great prospect but McGrath is probably technically right now the best LH in Ireland.
How Joe deals with Zebo is going to be interesting but just as interesting is how Zebo deals with Joe. Zebo is talent without a doubt but it's up to him to adjust to the requirements laid down for him. It's fair to say everyone one wants this to work out for Joe and Zebo.

[Oldschool]

The most important input defsively there was Murray

I think he's right about that personally.

People can't seem to resist colouring their opinions on provincial lines.

I'd agree mostly with Golf Man's player ratings. POM would have been my motm, with Heaslip close behind and Murray not far behind Jamie. Toner maybe a little better and Touhy a little worse than Golf Man has them. Please God we'll get back to a threequarters that has two of Earls, Zebo, Bowe, Gilroy and Fitz in it. Dave K and Trimble are solid provincial guys who might have a role for Ireland in a team where all the carrying was to come from the pack. But without SOB, Ferris, Cronin our pack isn't any better at breaking the line than most of the other 6N packs. We need more from our 3/4 than RK, DK and Trimble can offer. Ferg has pace but has Shaggyitis - refuses point blank to offload before going down. We need to get two of those 5 on the pitch for every game. Scotland is the only team in the 6N that will have that much possession and do so little with it. Other teams will make us pay for a lack of cutting edge.

Tactically, the game reminded me a lot of some of our tests under Kidney (esp around the 09 GS). Cagey first half followed by a blitzkrieg early doors in the second. Basically turn it into a 40 minute game and dare the other team to live with our intensity in the second half. Too early to call it a tactic, obviously. Could be just a coincidence.

Call it getting to know you or maybe getting to know Joe's way. There were a lot of firsts or near firsts on the park yesterday.
The second row partnership, the back row, midfield, back three. We're in transition, sort of.

[Golf Man]

On the scrum/Denton near miss.
The ref should have given us a peno.
The scrum collapsed in a heap because they dropped it to protect the ball.
The ref (including the linemen) didn't ref the scrums well at all.

GM you've asked for consistency - Why then are you suggesting Ryan should come back. I don't think he'd add anything anyway (I would say that of course, so ignore the jibe). He has no right to an Ireland jersey until he proves he's better than the current incumbent. That's in the here and now, not last season BTW. The day of entitlement is gone. On top of which, who would you replace him for? POC is the only one you could possibly have in mind because his number of caps is probably greater than the total of McCarthy, Touhy (who has earned his chance if we are being fair) and Toner (only just breaking into the squad himself) and Henderson (not including cameos or maybe even including cameos). All the SRs, POC and Ryan apart, could be playing for Ireland in RWC 2019. That's what squad building is about.
You've championed Killer for long enough. Healy hasn't had much rugby this season and McGrath is just starting his career. So let's just go and disrupt things you say, for what exactly? Killer, like others he will get his chance, one way or another but we've just started into a big tournament and you want Joe to pull the house down and redo the foundations. And then slaughter him when it all goes terribly wrong because it won't be Killers fault whoevers' fault it is.
And for the record I think (and have said so before) Killer is a great prospect but McGrath is probably technically right now the best LH in Ireland.
How Joe deals with Zebo is going to be interesting but just as interesting is how Zebo deals with Joe. Zebo is talent without a doubt but it's up to him to adjust to the requirements laid down for him. It's fair to say everyone one wants this to work out for Joe and Zebo.

I shouldn't but I can't help myself

- Can't remember the last time I mentioned Ryan on this thread - you are getting worse - you have your script to stick to but you are mxing up your Munster fans - maybe give it a rest cos its not working anymore

- Technically McGrath is nowhere near the best LH in Ireland right now - Healy is on a different level to all the other options

- Yes in suggesting that Kilcoyne get game time and that McGrath get a start, I want Schmdit to "pull down the house and redo the foundations" and then slaughter him.

- Last time I'm responding to you because you've actually become one of teh very few posters you have a completely negative impact on the forum as a whole

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Bit of a tangent here but did anyone see when Healy knock over one of the Scottish lads when we were attacking their line in the first half? I know I shouldn't be surprised but Healy was waiting at the back of the ruck and weighed things up for a few seconds which allowed the Scots to get in position....but it didn't make a blind bit of difference. He picked the ball up and from a standing start bulldozed one of the defenders and then carried for a few more metres before being stopped just short of the line. It was like he was toying with them. I mean this in the nicest possible way but the guy is a total freak.

[simonokeeffe]

Bit of a tangent here but did anyone see when Healy knock over one of the Scottish lads when we were attacking their line in the first half? I know I shouldn't be surprised but Healy was waiting at the back of the ruck and weighed things up for a few seconds which allowed the Scots to get in position....but it didn't make a blind bit of difference. He picked the ball up and from a standing start bulldozed one of the defenders and then carried for a few more metres before being stopped just short of the line. It was like he was toying with them. I mean this in the nicest possible way but the guy is a total freak.

sure Rob Kearney was roadkilling defenders an all

[thoughtless]

I pop on here every now and again for a bit of a lurk, have to say I enjoyed the POM saga on this thread, so decided to post...

He's down as having made 7 tackles and missed 2 (9 attempts) in 65 minutes, where Henry made 10 with 1 miss and Heaslip made 11 with 1, both in 80 minutes. So, respectively, they made 9, 11, and 12 attempts. That works out at a tackle attempt roughly every 7 and a quarter minutes from both POM and Henry, and a tackle every 6 and three quarter minutes from Heaslip. The differences are hardly stark, so to see a large segment of Leinster fans bemoan POM's work rate and stamina relative to his team-mates is quite amusing.

[Lar]

Not sure you have thought that one through....

[CiaranIrl]

I pop on here every now and again for a bit of a lurk, have to say I enjoyed the POM saga on this thread, so decided to post...

He's down as having made 7 tackles and missed 2 (9 attempts) in 65 minutes, where Henry made 10 with 1 miss and Heaslip made 11 with 1, both in 80 minutes. So, respectively, they made 9, 11, and 12 attempts. That works out at a tackle attempt roughly every 7 and a quarter minutes from both POM and Henry, and a tackle every 6 and three quarter minutes from Heaslip. The differences are hardly stark, so to see a large segment of Leinster fans bemoan POM's work rate and stamina relative to his team-mates is quite amusing.

They updated the stats on scrum.com since actually. I also think you'll find nobody said he didn't play well. He did. For example, all I said was he wasn't my MOTM.

[Laighindown]

I pop on here every now and again for a bit of a lurk, have to say I enjoyed the POM saga on this thread, so decided to post...

He's down as having made 7 tackles and missed 2 (9 attempts) in 65 minutes, where Henry made 10 with 1 miss and Heaslip made 11 with 1, both in 80 minutes. So, respectively, they made 9, 11, and 12 attempts. That works out at a tackle attempt roughly every 7 and a quarter minutes from both POM and Henry, and a tackle every 6 and three quarter minutes from Heaslip. The differences are hardly stark, so to see a large segment of Leinster fans bemoan POM's work rate and stamina relative to his team-mates is quite amusing.

They updated the stats on scrum.com since actually. I also think you'll find nobody said he didn't play well. He did. For example, all I said was he wasn't my MOTM.

I don't think anybody attacked POM to be honest. It was fairly universal that he had a quality game. Some excellent analysis regarding his tackling - that he was often the first man after the tackle - putting pressure on Scotland's ball and forcing turnovers. I recall somebody mentioned stamina, but it was hardly a chorus of disapproval.

My own view is that he came off the field to run a double 7 experiment, with Henry and O'Donnell hunting together. This is likely to counteract what Wales may do tomorrow, they will likely unleash two sevens as the game winds on to try to open up in the last quarter. Nothing to do with O'Mahoney's performance that he came off - he was excellent and very close to man of the match. However, Heaslip carried for 66 metres to his 3, made four more successful tackles, had the same number of turnovers, scored a try and was involved in another massive play that nearly led to a try, so I think he deserved the accolade.