honeyec wrote:I'm genuinely curious as to what people would prefer - absolute silence outside of dead-pan announcements of replacements and scores?
There are no late changes to either team, and that's fu**ing it. Lose the music after every score, lose the trumpets, lose the "Lets hear if for ......, Lose the "lets see those flags" ........ His job is to keep the fans informed of who scores, whos a sub and that's it. When the hell did he become a cheer leader. As soon as a score is awarded hes blasting out the Darts theme tune, you don't get to hear the fans cheer anymore because the music drowns it out everytime.
Personally I still think the lack of songs is down to the likes of Leinster and Ulsters fans refusing to sing the Fields, and the lack of Songs seriously detracts form the atmosphere within the stadium. Even against the AB's, when the fields started to get going it petered out before the crowd really got into it. Fans wont sing it.
honeyec wrote:I'm genuinely curious as to what people would prefer - absolute silence outside of dead-pan announcements of replacements and scores?
There are no late changes to either team, and that's fu**ing it. Lose the music after every score, lose the trumpets, lose the "Lets hear if for ......, Lose the "lets see those flags" ........ His job is to keep the fans informed of who scores, whos a sub and that's it. When the hell did he become a cheer leader. As soon as a score is awarded hes blasting out the Darts theme tune, you don't get to hear the fans cheer anymore because the music drowns it out everytime.
Personally I still think the lack of songs is down to the likes of Leinster and Ulsters fans refusing to sing the Fields, and the lack of Songs seriously detracts form the atmosphere within the stadium. Even against the AB's, when the fields started to get going it petered out before the crowd really got into it. Fans wont sing it.
honeyec wrote:I'm genuinely curious as to what people would prefer - absolute silence outside of dead-pan announcements of replacements and scores?
There are no late changes to either team, and that's fu**ing it. Lose the music after every score, lose the trumpets, lose the "Lets hear if for ......, Lose the "lets see those flags" ........ His job is to keep the fans informed of who scores, whos a sub and that's it. When the hell did he become a cheer leader. As soon as a score is awarded hes blasting out the Darts theme tune, you don't get to hear the fans cheer anymore because the music drowns it out everytime.
Personally I still think the lack of songs is down to the likes of Leinster and Ulsters fans refusing to sing the Fields, and the lack of Songs seriously detracts form the atmosphere within the stadium. Even against the AB's, when the fields started to get going it petered out before the crowd really got into it. Fans wont sing it.
Can it still be MY leinster rubgy team?
No, thats banned too - clapping or singing only...!
Personally it wouldn't bother me if there was no singing. I have been attending internationals since 1978 (Mike Gibson clothes lined by Welsh unfortunately no TMO) . The biggest thing missing is the old Lansdowne roar. It bothers me that people treat a rugby game as if it is a night at the theatre. Pre show drinks, intermission drinks etc. they expect to sit back and be entertained and will not participate unless that happens.
My idea of going to a match is to be part of the experience, to be part of the show. When following your team, immerse yourself in the game, feel the excitement and anxiety, roar on your team reacting to big plays etc.We don't have to sing to create an atmosphere, the old tribal chant of Oirland, Oirland will get everyone involved. I don't want to close my eyes and think I'm at a darts match when there is a score.
Just once be in your seats and everyone roar their team on from the start. The signal to support your team is when the ref blows his whistle, not just when we score.
You won't hear too much singing at an All-Ireland final (Dubs excepted ) yet the atmosphere does not suffer. Why because the spectators cheer every play passionately and roar on their teams with unconditional support (love!).
Let's revive the LANSDOWNE ROAR
honeyec wrote:
It's the same guy as in the RDS. People hate him there too.
Personally, I don't really understand the vitriol aimed at the stadium announcer. You'd swear he was subjecting people to a recital of War & Peace throughout the game. Other than "Let's hear it for XXX" and "Let's see those flags", he doesn't really say a whole lot outside of his subs & scores remit. I'm genuinely curious as to what people would prefer - absolute silence outside of dead-pan announcements of replacements and scores?
The only reason I have a problem with him is that it sometimes feels like we're being treated like children who don't know what's going on. I don't need to be told when to clap or who to clap - does he really think that we'll allow the half time minis or the opposition team to leave the pitch unapplauded if he doesn't remind us to clap them off? Or that we'll forget to cheer our try scorers or penalty takers without prompting?
But the most annoying thing of all (in my opinion) is the ridiculous 'lets give the boys a cheer as they do their run around'. Supporters in general and the terrace dwellers in particular have been clapping the team as they run past on their warm up for as long as I've been attending Leinster matches. Prior to this guy taking over the PA duties we never had to be asked to cheer the team and to be quite honest it sounds really rather silly. You can just picture the opposition team standing at the other end of the pitch tittering behind their hands as we are admonished to cheer for a group of grown men who are 'doing a run around'
#LiveLifeLoveLeinster
#BeSeenBeHeardBeBlueBELIEVE
I'm a Book Mark and damn proud of it. Storm 1:08 forever
Xanthippe wrote:You can just picture the opposition team standing at the other end of the pitch tittering behind their hands as we are admonished to cheer for a group of grown men who are 'doing a run around'
Actually, I really can't. I don't think anyone pays the guy half as much attention as the people who don't like him think.
"Yeah I been starvin' 'em, teasing 'em, singing off-key - me may my mo, me mo my may..."
Any guys brought up in rugby surely still support their own club. There is and was rugby before Munster Rugby, Leinster Rugby, Ulster Rugby and Connacht Rugby came along you know.
Which club are you affiliated to? How often would you see a club match?
Being pedantic Leinster Rugby predates most of the clubs in the province. From my own perspective I got into rugby through school and have never had or felt any affiliation to a club. I'd wager there are a fair number of people in the same situation as myself, particularly in Dublin.
I have no issues with music after scoring, I don't like the 'Lets wave those flags' or whatever in the middle of a game.
I enjoy the pre game music, half time entertainment & crowd interaction, like it or not the game has turned into an event & I quite like it. An 80 minute game has now become a 3hr opportunity for me to meet up with my mates (or have fun with the kids) or whatever. Anything that happens outside the run of play is fine as far as i'm concerned.
I think the DJ lad just does what he is told & sticks reasonable rigidly to a script.
I have to say I thought the atmosphere against Wales was great - there seemed to be no absence of noise and cheering - clearly we had alot of cheer about which always helps, but we also managed to silence the Welsh singing, which was very important.
mikey wrote:I have to say I thought the atmosphere against Wales was great - there seemed to be no absence of noise and cheering - clearly we had alot of cheer about which always helps, but we also managed to silence the Welsh singing, which was very important.
mikey wrote:I have to say I thought the atmosphere against Wales was great - there seemed to be no absence of noise and cheering - clearly we had alot of cheer about which always helps, but we also managed to silence the Welsh singing, which was very important.
Pretty horse this morning though!
Guess the test is what happens against Italy...!
"Pretty horse this morning"?
A good result at the races?
A strange sexual celebration?
...or just drunken typing?
I know, I know... Pedant alert!!
I'm going to blame predictive typing and poor proof reading skills!
But I have to say, the fetlocks on that little filly this morning were pretty good....
backrower8 wrote: ↑February 27th, 2024, 10:05 am
Is there a case for setting up a new Topic on the Aviva instead of hosting all the chat here on "6 Nations 2024"?
Think its fair to say this issue is getting steadily worse every year. As a Leinster fan who goes to every home game and probably 5-6 away games I have no interest in going to a 6N game. Once seated in Block H of Grandstand in RDS before K.O I never have to move until H.T as those around me are there primarily to watch a rugby game. This contrasts starkly with my last 6N game 4-5 yrs ago where I was up and down the whole game letting folks in and out of their seats. I recently travelled to Welford Rd including flights, car hire and match ticket for less than the cost of entry to a 6N game in Aviva.
Personally I dont believe the IRFU can be blamed for the poor atmosphere insofar as they cant be responsible for micro managing where every ticket goes. Ok the drinks to seats is an issue. Sad reality is match tickets are ending up in the wrong hands. Mostly this is due to the success of the team and the band wagoners jumping on board. I can't believe the Irish team/ Management haven’t discussed this as an issue and my concern is the silence will feed into the performance of the players. Watching on TV is akin to the days of covid whereby you could hear the players communicate due to empty stadiums.
Not sure I've any Solutions to the problem. Maybe G.thornley can keep up the campaign and embarrass the offenders into staying away!!!
Agree with a lot that's been said already. I have always found it difficult to get 6N tickets, apart from Rome. Unfortunately, like soccer, GAA or most sports, one-sided games don't generate much of an atmosphere. The prawn sandwich brigade do join in when the stakes are high but those games are rare now. France last year springs to mind as the most recent but the travelling French fans deserve some credit for that atmosphere which was electric.
Reposting Gerry Thornley's piece on the atmosphere in the Times.
Flat atmosphere at the Aviva Stadium not helped by Irish rugby fans treating matches as a social occasion
There are plenty of supporters who would sing and chant if they could procure tickets yet there were non-occupied seats in the Lower East and Havelock Square ends on Saturday
Another record-equalling Irish win in the Six Nations and another record-extending Irish home win to move within two wins of unprecedented territory. And another flat occasion at the Aviva Stadium. This is the best Irish team ever. But this certainly won’t last forever. This mightn’t even last much longer. This team deserves better.
At least most of the crowd were still in situ and engaged when Tadhg Beirne scored with the last play of Saturday’s game. When Jamison Gibson-Park’s finish with the last play against Italy was ruled out, there was hardly a murmur either way. Most were heading for the exits. They hadn’t even noticed.
As for Zombie being blared out immediately afterwards? Well, it sure ain’t Bordeaux, Nantes or Stade de France. Instead the pubs are calling and the seats are emptying rapidly.
For sure it’s not the World Cup. And supporters haven’t come from all over the world, paid a fortune and worn the colours to be there to anything like the same extent. But how many of the 50,000 or so Irish fans who were in the Stade de France for the South Africa, Scotland and New Zealand games were able to procure tickets for this year’s Six Nations games? Very few, one would venture.
And therein lies the rub. This has been an issue for years. Yes, it’s good when the All Blacks come to town, and it was good on Paddy’s Day for the Slam/Johnny Sexton coronation. But wept, shouldn’t it be?
Wales walloping leaves Ireland one win away from the Six Nations title
The three comparative home games over two seasons, including a final Saturday teatime shot at the title and Triple Crown against Scotland in 2022, were lamentably lacking in atmosphere. Are the tickets ending up in the hands of real fans? For example, readers have said that they counted over 50 non-occupied seats in the Lower East and Havelock Square ends. What the hell is going on there?
There are plenty of supporters out there who would sing, chant and generate an atmosphere if they could procure tickets for this is also the most popular Irish rugby side ever. The TV figures underline it. The Italian game on Virgin Media TV drew 884,000 and a 70 per cent market share, which given it was Italy at home on a Sunday and clashing with Man United is unbelievable. France was 1.19 million and a 74 per cent audience share, as well as another 200,000 on the Virgin Media player.
This is not far off the World Cup quarter-final against New Zealand, which drew 1.38 million viewers and a 78 per cent audience share, plus another 290,000 on streams. Nor is it far off the final leg of the Grand Slam against England last March, which had an average audience of 1.013 million, which equated to a 73 per cent share, and reached 1.065 million for the trophy-lift, making it the biggest live sporting event since 2017 at that point
For sure it doesn’t help that there has been a lack of jeopardy in this year’s Irish wins. Nor that as usual the pre-match build-up is both overlong and pathetic. Two Irish Anthems don’t help but the French and the Scots do it much better, encouraging the supporters to be involved by chanting the players’ surnames, by stopping the band to sing their anthems a cappella.
It also doesn’t help that many fans seem to regard Irish Six Nations games as social occasions, akin to an open-air party/dining/drinking occasion. It’s simply a case of prioritising the actual sport!
Attending major Croke Park occasions, patrons are not permitted to bring drinks back to their seats, with the purchase of alcohol restricted to before, half time and after the game. Attending the St Patrick’s Athletic-Bohemians FAI Cup final fans were allowed drink all they wanted during the game, but not permitted to bring their drinks back to the seats.
Enforcing either approach at the Aviva for Irish rugby games would be a start.
5starfan wrote: ↑February 27th, 2024, 10:48 pm
Think its fair to say this issue is getting steadily worse every year. As a Leinster fan who goes to every home game and probably 5-6 away games I have no interest in going to a 6N game. Once seated in Block H of Grandstand in RDS before K.O I never have to move until H.T as those around me are there primarily to watch a rugby game. This contrasts starkly with my last 6N game 4-5 yrs ago where I was up and down the whole game letting folks in and out of their seats. I recently travelled to Welford Rd including flights, car hire and match ticket for less than the cost of entry to a 6N game in Aviva.
Personally I dont believe the IRFU can be blamed for the poor atmosphere insofar as they cant be responsible for micro managing where every ticket goes. Ok the drinks to seats is an issue. Sad reality is match tickets are ending up in the wrong hands. Mostly this is due to the success of the team and the band wagoners jumping on board. I can't believe the Irish team/ Management haven’t discussed this as an issue and my concern is the silence will feed into the performance of the players. Watching on TV is akin to the days of covid whereby you could hear the players communicate due to empty stadiums.
Not sure I've any Solutions to the problem. Maybe G.thornley can keep up the campaign and embarrass the offenders into staying away!!!
The IRFU know the issues. They know that tickets distributed to the clubs were originally designed to reward club members and are being used for fund raising. They know that they are cutting allocations to clubs. They know that they aren't including the fans who show up week in week out in the access to tickets - i.e. provincial season ticket holders. They further know that people up and down for drinks is an ongoing issue.
The issue is that each of these things has a financial return. The clubs need the revenue to keep going, the IRFU fills the stadium and needs the ticket revenue. The IRFU sells the catering rights and needs that revenue.
The problem is that the business model is wrong as we are still overly dependent on match day at both a provinicial and international level. Bayern Munich are able to keep their season tickets dirt cheap because the ticket sales make no difference to their revenue model. Uli Hoeness Bayern's president made that clear: “We could charge more than €104. Let’s say we charged $300. We’d get $2m more in income, but what’s $2m to us? In a transfer discussion, you argue about that sum for five minutes. But the difference between €104 and €300 is huge for the fan. We do not think the fans are like cows, who you milk,”
Same goes for soccer in England, match day revenue is a small proportion of their income for many clubs - that how clubs survived in tact through covid and how clubs with relatively small grounds like Bournemouth, Leicester, Brighton, Brentford - even Luton etc are able to play premier League football. In all honesty, the fan are very important props in the show that is professional soccer - so you want the right fans in the stadium and lots of them!
Rugby in Ireland needs a different business model. Not saying ignore ticket sales but we need more fans engaging with the game at playing, coaching and supporting level. To get that we need more access at international level, more people at provincial games and a totally different commercial model to fund it the facilities which are frankly completely inadequate.
With that you invest in facilities recruit more fans, drive more engagement, recruit more players and the virtuous circle builds.
5starfan wrote: ↑February 27th, 2024, 10:48 pm
Think its fair to say this issue is getting steadily worse every year. As a Leinster fan who goes to every home game and probably 5-6 away games I have no interest in going to a 6N game. Once seated in Block H of Grandstand in RDS before K.O I never have to move until H.T as those around me are there primarily to watch a rugby game. This contrasts starkly with my last 6N game 4-5 yrs ago where I was up and down the whole game letting folks in and out of their seats. I recently travelled to Welford Rd including flights, car hire and match ticket for less than the cost of entry to a 6N game in Aviva.
Personally I dont believe the IRFU can be blamed for the poor atmosphere insofar as they cant be responsible for micro managing where every ticket goes. Ok the drinks to seats is an issue. Sad reality is match tickets are ending up in the wrong hands. Mostly this is due to the success of the team and the band wagoners jumping on board. I can't believe the Irish team/ Management haven’t discussed this as an issue and my concern is the silence will feed into the performance of the players. Watching on TV is akin to the days of covid whereby you could hear the players communicate due to empty stadiums.
Not sure I've any Solutions to the problem. Maybe G.thornley can keep up the campaign and embarrass the offenders into staying away!!!
The IRFU know the issues. They know that tickets distributed to the clubs were originally designed to reward club members and are being used for fund raising. They know that they are cutting allocations to clubs. They know that they aren't including the fans who show up week in week out in the access to tickets - i.e. provincial season ticket holders. They further know that people up and down for drinks is an ongoing issue.
The issue is that each of these things has a financial return. The clubs need the revenue to keep going, the IRFU fills the stadium and needs the ticket revenue. The IRFU sells the catering rights and needs that revenue.
The problem is that the business model is wrong as we are still overly dependent on match day at both a provinicial and international level. Bayern Munich are able to keep their season tickets dirt cheap because the ticket sales make no difference to their revenue model. Uli Hoeness Bayern's president made that clear: “We could charge more than €104. Let’s say we charged $300. We’d get $2m more in income, but what’s $2m to us? In a transfer discussion, you argue about that sum for five minutes. But the difference between €104 and €300 is huge for the fan. We do not think the fans are like cows, who you milk,”
Same goes for soccer in England, match day revenue is a small proportion of their income for many clubs - that how clubs survived in tact through covid and how clubs with relatively small grounds like Bournemouth, Leicester, Brighton, Brentford - even Luton etc are able to play premier League football. In all honesty, the fan are very important props in the show that is professional soccer - so you want the right fans in the stadium and lots of them!
Rugby in Ireland needs a different business model. Not saying ignore ticket sales but we need more fans engaging with the game at playing, coaching and supporting level. To get that we need more access at international level, more people at provincial games and a totally different commercial model to fund it the facilities which are frankly completely inadequate.
With that you invest in facilities recruit more fans, drive more engagement, recruit more players and the virtuous circle builds.
Those cheap tickets for fans are only an option because the vast percentage of a football clubs income comes from TV rights. Irish rugby will never get the same money, and even striving to get a little more may actually be a net negative, as football is popular enough to survive going pay to view, rugby needs free to air.
The problem is that we have massively increased demand for tickets and far more people watching games on TV.
Life is hard.
In Lansdowne Road there were core parts of the ground that led the atmosphere. Aviva has everyone spread out horizontally and also has a premium level dividing vertically. There was somewhere to start mexican waves once upon a time. On the big days the buzz is everywhere and the atmosphere is totally different.
It doesn't really bother me, I enjoy going to games when I can get tickets or time.
5starfan wrote: ↑February 27th, 2024, 10:48 pm
Think its fair to say this issue is getting steadily worse every year. As a Leinster fan who goes to every home game and probably 5-6 away games I have no interest in going to a 6N game. Once seated in Block H of Grandstand in RDS before K.O I never have to move until H.T as those around me are there primarily to watch a rugby game. This contrasts starkly with my last 6N game 4-5 yrs ago where I was up and down the whole game letting folks in and out of their seats. I recently travelled to Welford Rd including flights, car hire and match ticket for less than the cost of entry to a 6N game in Aviva.
Personally I dont believe the IRFU can be blamed for the poor atmosphere insofar as they cant be responsible for micro managing where every ticket goes. Ok the drinks to seats is an issue. Sad reality is match tickets are ending up in the wrong hands. Mostly this is due to the success of the team and the band wagoners jumping on board. I can't believe the Irish team/ Management haven’t discussed this as an issue and my concern is the silence will feed into the performance of the players. Watching on TV is akin to the days of covid whereby you could hear the players communicate due to empty stadiums.
Not sure I've any Solutions to the problem. Maybe G.thornley can keep up the campaign and embarrass the offenders into staying away!!!
The IRFU know the issues. They know that tickets distributed to the clubs were originally designed to reward club members and are being used for fund raising. They know that they are cutting allocations to clubs. They know that they aren't including the fans who show up week in week out in the access to tickets - i.e. provincial season ticket holders. They further know that people up and down for drinks is an ongoing issue.
The issue is that each of these things has a financial return. The clubs need the revenue to keep going, the IRFU fills the stadium and needs the ticket revenue. The IRFU sells the catering rights and needs that revenue.
The problem is that the business model is wrong as we are still overly dependent on match day at both a provinicial and international level. Bayern Munich are able to keep their season tickets dirt cheap because the ticket sales make no difference to their revenue model. Uli Hoeness Bayern's president made that clear: “We could charge more than €104. Let’s say we charged $300. We’d get $2m more in income, but what’s $2m to us? In a transfer discussion, you argue about that sum for five minutes. But the difference between €104 and €300 is huge for the fan. We do not think the fans are like cows, who you milk,”
Same goes for soccer in England, match day revenue is a small proportion of their income for many clubs - that how clubs survived in tact through covid and how clubs with relatively small grounds like Bournemouth, Leicester, Brighton, Brentford - even Luton etc are able to play premier League football. In all honesty, the fan are very important props in the show that is professional soccer - so you want the right fans in the stadium and lots of them!
Rugby in Ireland needs a different business model. Not saying ignore ticket sales but we need more fans engaging with the game at playing, coaching and supporting level. To get that we need more access at international level, more people at provincial games and a totally different commercial model to fund it the facilities which are frankly completely inadequate.
With that you invest in facilities recruit more fans, drive more engagement, recruit more players and the virtuous circle builds.
Those cheap tickets for fans are only an option because the vast percentage of a football clubs income comes from TV rights. Irish rugby will never get the same money, and even striving to get a little more may actually be a net negative, as football is popular enough to survive going pay to view, rugby needs free to air.
While TV money is important as you say, for a club like, say, Man United, it's not even the biggest income stream. Commercial is their biggest revenue stream and by far the fastest growing - it's doubled in the last decade in it's importance. That's not just merch by the way, it's mostly sponsorship and commercial partnerships. It's all part of the same issue though, rugby needs to expand it's base and exposure. The income stream potential for Leinster and the URC is benefiting from market expansion. A European League, a more frequent world cup, More global tournaments, England coming in with the URC, cracking North America for both the provinces and the national team. All of these things contribute and as I said, it's a virtuous circle because you're generating exposure to potential players, fans, coaches and commercial partnerships. Unfortunately Irish rugby does invest enough in this facet of growth. By the way, they aren't alone, the GAA and FAI are as bad if not worse.
Either way, the reality is that when covid his rugby had to take furloughs and hand outs, our facilities are inadequate - the national stadium is too small and the RDS is not nearly fit for purpose.
