Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

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jezzer
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by jezzer »

Dave Cahill wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:
And can I just reiterate that it's an utterly shite dirge of a song? Phil Coulter's isn't as bad. It's f%~king awful. You've all just got accustomed to it's utter shiteness.

It was the best solution to a big problem. I remember when it was commissioned, I was working for a Music Publisher at the time (Paddy 'Fields of Athenry' Reilly's publisher at the time funnily enough) and we (we had some pretty significant songwriters on our books) along with a number of our peers were approached . The Union had been having the conversation internally since RWC87 and the 'Danny Boy' fiasco. They first went looking for an existing song, but the ones that were from 'politically unobjectionable' artists weren't suitable (e,g Song for Ireland), or were too expensive (e.g. U2), or were tied up in legal issues (e.g. Horslips). It was then decided to commission a song. It had to be anthemic, the writer had to be willing to sign over the rights in perpetuity, it couldn't be political of course or be a drinking song, there was a long list of requirements. They wanted a songwriter with an international reputation to give it gravitas. Phil Coulter fitted the bill (you should take a look at his songwriting credits, if they started and stopped at "scorn not his simplicity" they'd be amazing, but he also wrote (or co-wrote) Puppet on a String, Congratulations, The Town I Loved So Well, and a ridiculous amount of hits in the 70s for various glam rock acts), he wanted to do it, was willing to write to the requirements and presented a bloody good song. I think it needs re-arranging - theres too much dead air in it, but its still a great song.

For all the complaining, no one has ever suggested or come up with anything else thats even close to being suitable.
It is not, never was nor will ever be a great song. What other songs weren't suitable are irrelevant. Phil Coulter's (dubious) credentials are irrelevant. It's a cringe-inducing, dumbed-down, glorified nursery rhyme. The poor Garda band have arranged it to death, made it more uptempo, added the drum tattoo to fill it out and help the plodding metre of it.... and it's still a sh!t song.

By contrast, the Garda band (as they have taken to doing in recent years, which really annoys me) rearranged our visitor's anthem to try to dampen the opposition crowd. They turned Flower of Scotland into a girly waltz. It was still a far better anthem than Coulter's Drawl.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Dexter »

fourthirtythree wrote:Yeah, we need to be up to our ankles in rivers of piss flowing down the swaying terraces. Atmosphere!
Ah those were the days..... sigh!
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by TerenureJim »

RoboProp wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
blockhead wrote:http://www.independent.ie/sport/off-the ... 80243.html

The indo gets in on the conversation about anthems.
Phil Coulter got his chance let's quickly move on.
If I can read between the lines here OS what you are saying is replace Ireland's Call with Rock You Like A Hurricane complete with Harrier jump jet flyover? I like your thinking
Sorry why haven't we done this already
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Mickado »

Did somebody say...box-kites?

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Last edited by Mickado on February 5th, 2014, 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by blaker »

I am no longer a regular intl attendee but still get to the occassional one. The atmosphere is unquestionably deflated and one need only look at the NZ game for evidence of what it can be at its very best. There were obvious mitigating circumstances there in fairness. Theres a raft of factors;
- There are far "more" games, both intl and high end national comps with the attendant familiarity/cherry picking mindset now than there were 30 years ago
- There is a very significant reduction in teh number of travelling fans
- There are, and always have been, corpoart/alickadoo/"not real" fans but whereas before such fans were in among the morass and involved they are now cossetted and separated, allowing them be apart
- Loss of little things like the kids terrace
- Loss of big things like the East Terrace and the North/South terrace
- The poxy forced matchday "experience" which totally precludes organic noise - see the loud bang fireworks straighta fter the anthem last week instead of a roar, piped tune after a score, repeated "gee ups" etc etc
- The provincial thing, fockit I've caught myself doing it. You overegg annoyance at player x because either you have spent a week here being upbraided about how he is amazing/Coach is a clown for ignoring him over Player Y from anothe province/some guy behind just had a go at one of "your" players.
- The "easiness" of the modern experience allows more wives/husbands/kids/elder parents etc who may not have a notion to go than might have been teh case before. My sister has been to a numbr of recent games and wouldn't know one player from another

Thats a very hard set of things to counteract and indeed, some are contradictory. You could;
- Cease the piped/fake atmosphere and displays
- Shut the bars 5 mins before KO

But many of the others are here to stay. Its a toughie
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Peg Leg »

We should keep Ireland's call for all the away matches (no need to worry about the Irish singing in furrin turf!).
For the home games we should have a minute silence to honour the passing of the atmosphere of Old Lansdowne, maybe get some wailers too.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Golf Man »

Peg Leg wrote:We should keep Ireland's call for all the away matches (no need to worry about the Irish singing in furrin turf!).
For the home games we should have a minute silence to honour the passing of the atmosphere of Old Lansdowne, maybe get some wailers too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd2GZqQOuRw
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Golf Man wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:We should keep Ireland's call for all the away matches (no need to worry about the Irish singing in furrin turf!).
For the home games we should have a minute silence to honour the passing of the atmosphere of Old Lansdowne, maybe get some wailers too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd2GZqQOuRw
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by mtleinster »

For all the people who prefer the good ol' days when things were more ... organic

Loudest crowd roar at a sports stadium
A peak reading of 125.4dBA was recorded during the Ireland v. Scotland rugby union international at Lansdowne Road, Dublin, on 7 February 1998.

RUGBY UNION) RUGBY FANS BID TO BREAK WORLD 'ROAR' RECORD
Rugby fans will be handed megaphones on Saturday in an official bid to record "the loudest roar in the world" at Saturday's Five Nations championship match betwen Ireland and Scotland. Around 15,000 megaphones will be distributed by Guinness , brewers of Ireland's world-famous stout, to the 50,000 supporters streaming into Lansdowne Road stadium. A spokesman said: "Environmental engineers have been employed to record the roar, and they will be closely observed by an official from the Guinness Book of Records to ensure that all rules and regulations are followed.
"The decibel level will be measured throughout the match, with the loudest roar of the afternoon submitted." Vanessa Law, of the Guinness Book of Records, said: "This is an attempt to create a new category, and we hope to be able to ratify it as a record when the documentation has been studied." Irish team captain Keith Wood commented: "It's always fantastic to play in front of a home crowd. Scotland won't know what hit them when the Irish fans roar for us through their megaphones."
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by fourthirtythree »

mtleinster wrote:For all the people who prefer the good ol' days when things were more ... organic

Loudest crowd roar at a sports stadium
A peak reading of 125.4dBA was recorded during the Ireland v. Scotland rugby union international at Lansdowne Road, Dublin, on 7 February 1998.

RUGBY UNION) RUGBY FANS BID TO BREAK WORLD 'ROAR' RECORD
Rugby fans will be handed megaphones on Saturday in an official bid to record "the loudest roar in the world" at Saturday's Five Nations championship match betwen Ireland and Scotland. Around 15,000 megaphones will be distributed by Guinness , brewers of Ireland's world-famous stout, to the 50,000 supporters streaming into Lansdowne Road stadium. A spokesman said: "Environmental engineers have been employed to record the roar, and they will be closely observed by an official from the Guinness Book of Records to ensure that all rules and regulations are followed.
"The decibel level will be measured throughout the match, with the loudest roar of the afternoon submitted." Vanessa Law, of the Guinness Book of Records, said: "This is an attempt to create a new category, and we hope to be able to ratify it as a record when the documentation has been studied." Irish team captain Keith Wood commented: "It's always fantastic to play in front of a home crowd. Scotland won't know what hit them when the Irish fans roar for us through their megaphones."
I was thinking of before 1998, though that is a fair enough point, do I remember them attempting something like that in the new Lansdowne and failing miserably?
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Edna Kenny »

I still have my Guinness megaphone at home! Might dig it out and bring it along on Saturday.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Oldschool »

RoboProp wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
blockhead wrote:http://www.independent.ie/sport/off-the ... 80243.html

The indo gets in on the conversation about anthems.
Phil Coulter got his chance let's quickly move on.
If I can read between the lines here OS what you are saying is replace Ireland's Call with Rock You Like A Hurricane complete with Harrier jump jet flyover? I like your thinking
BOOM, BOOM
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Logorrhea »

blaker wrote:There are far "more" games, both intl and high end national comps with the attendant familiarity/cherry picking mindset now than there were 30 years ago
Good point that. A lot of fans get their fix from the provincial games now, where before the International games were the only show in town.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by TerenureJim »

Logorrhea wrote:
blaker wrote:There are far "more" games, both intl and high end national comps with the attendant familiarity/cherry picking mindset now than there were 30 years ago
Good point that. A lot of fans get their fix from the provincial games now, where before the International games were the only show in town.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by All Blacks nil »

mtleinster wrote:For all the people who prefer the good ol' days when things were more ... organic

Loudest crowd roar at a sports stadium
A peak reading of 125.4dBA was recorded during the Ireland v. Scotland rugby union international at Lansdowne Road, Dublin, on 7 February 1998.

RUGBY UNION) RUGBY FANS BID TO BREAK WORLD 'ROAR' RECORD
Rugby fans will be handed megaphones on Saturday in an official bid to record "the loudest roar in the world" at Saturday's Five Nations championship match betwen Ireland and Scotland. Around 15,000 megaphones will be distributed by Guinness , brewers of Ireland's world-famous stout, to the 50,000 supporters streaming into Lansdowne Road stadium. A spokesman said: "Environmental engineers have been employed to record the roar, and they will be closely observed by an official from the Guinness Book of Records to ensure that all rules and regulations are followed.
"The decibel level will be measured throughout the match, with the loudest roar of the afternoon submitted." Vanessa Law, of the Guinness Book of Records, said: "This is an attempt to create a new category, and we hope to be able to ratify it as a record when the documentation has been studied." Irish team captain Keith Wood commented: "It's always fantastic to play in front of a home crowd. Scotland won't know what hit them when the Irish fans roar for us through their megaphones."
Therein lies the problem. A manufactured atmosphere created for commercial gain is just that, a manufactured atmosphere.

While the revenue from bars is obviously needed perhaps closing the bars 15 minutes before kickoff might be considered. People would be in their seats earlier, atmosphere would build naturally, roaring the players off after their warm up, back onto the field, through the anthems etc. The atmosphere is gradually cranking up and reaches a pinnacle for the first kickoff.I As it is now it is like being at the Late Late Show, (unfortunately I've never been) where some gombeen man tells you when to applaud.

All four provincial teams have great atmospheric grounds. I haven't been to the RDS but I have been at the other 3. Yes the crowd are prompted by prematch hosts but crowd participation is achieved as the atmosphere is cranked up for kickoff. After that the action takes over. How many of you respond in a positive way to the Matchday host at the AVIVA?

Personally the most spine tingling moment for me every time at TP is when the team leave the field after their warmup. I was nearly late for the Edinburgh match but myself and my young lad ran to be present as the team left the pitch. I know it is the same at the other provincial grounds. Unfortunately at the AVIVA a large minority never get to experience that let alone the warmup. Close the bars, enjoy the rugby, support your team.
Last edited by All Blacks nil on February 6th, 2014, 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Logorrhea »

TerenureJim wrote:Or ya know AIL
Ehhhhhh................ no
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by All Blacks nil »

Logorrhea wrote:
TerenureJim wrote:Or ya know AIL
Ehhhhhh................ no
Any guys brought up in rugby surely still support their own club. There is and was rugby before Munster Rugby, Leinster Rugby, Ulster Rugby and Connacht Rugby came along you know.
Which club are you affiliated to? How often would you see a club match?
Last edited by All Blacks nil on February 6th, 2014, 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Oldschool »

I referred before to the poor acoustics of the Aviva.
Knowing how things work in the country, I would not be surprised at all if in fact the acoustics have been doctored to reduce noise levels.
Anecdotal evidence is the amount of grief there has been over the years with the noise levels outside Croke Park.
When planning permission was being sought for the Aviva there was huge resistance from the locals not least regarding the "noise" from non rugby events.
As most of us are aware DJs and the like seem to think we all want our ears blasted out it.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by honeyec »

All Blacks nil wrote:All four provincial teams have great atmospheric grounds. I haven't been to the RDS but I have been at the other 3. Yes the crowd are prompted by prematch hosts but crowd participation is achieved as the atmosphere is cranked up for kickoff. After that the action takes over. How many of you respond in a positive way to the Matchday host at the AVIVA?
It's the same guy as in the RDS. People hate him there too.

Personally, I don't really understand the vitriol aimed at the stadium announcer. You'd swear he was subjecting people to a recital of War & Peace throughout the game. Other than "Let's hear it for XXX" and "Let's see those flags", he doesn't really say a whole lot outside of his subs & scores remit. I'm genuinely curious as to what people would prefer - absolute silence outside of dead-pan announcements of replacements and scores?

I hate these threads. There's a definite whiff of "Only 'real' fans should be allowed at the games and I'd be happy to go back to the days of three men and a dog if it got rid of all those bloody daytrippers." I get the distinct impression that some people here would prefer to see 5k "hardcore" fans in an otherwise empty stadium than have it sell out, with the resultant dilution of atmosphere.

I wonder do other country's fans suffer from this kind of craw-thumping, or is it an Irish thing? Cause I can tell you, I've been to away 6N matches and the atmosphere was similar to here.
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Re: Aviva Atmosphere - Are the fans the problem?

Post by Hornet »

Lets be brutally honest about this. The only way you get a great atmosphere at a match is for it to be a rollocking good match. The atmosphere in the RDS has often been flat. People want to be entertained, be it like the NZ game, or our QF against Quins. (Two totally different matches to watch but edge of seat stuff non the less). No amount of singing (whatever songs they may be) will help, if the ingredients on the pitch are not there.
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