England V Ireland 6 Nations 2014

[suisse]

I'm not going to lie, good Belgian beer robbed my ability to make sense.

What are you drinking?

[neilinboston]

I'm not going to lie, good Belgian beer robbed my ability to make sense.

What are you drinking?

westmalle trappiste trippel, ovila (sierra Nevada+ monks quad) and then a Manhattan or two...

[neilinboston]

I'm not going to lie, good Belgian beer robbed my ability to make sense.

What are you drinking?

if you had to ask...

[neilinboston]

I'm not going to lie, good Belgian beer robbed my ability to make sense.

What are you drinking?

in fairness my fat vs fit argument was fundamentally flawed mostly by the aforementioned beer (I'm gunning for you're #mostdrunkposter award! f%~k you Korean sake!

[Dave Cahill]

Another thing that is really rather simple is pointing out that nobody has claimed it is just as hard as having to face a top international side in the worlds biggest rugby tournament. I just don't get why everything he does should be dismissed out of hand immediately. I don't have the important information on his conditioning but since coming off the bench against Edinburgh in the HEC, he has played 3 full games for Munster. Even allowing for the opposition, I think there might be a bit of evidence there thaT his fitness has improved and his conditioning too.

But even if it is not deemed good enough by the coaching staff, that's not what I was talking about. We have an Irish winger scoring tries for his club but instead of people here acknowledging that positively, we want to go off on one about how sh!t Zebre or Cardiff are.

Its all about context though. Zebre and Cardiff, stripped of their internationals are sh!t - thats a fact, so a Lions winger scoring against them isn't a sign of anything at all really. We know that a fit and well Zebo is an international class winger, he has proved that in the past, his problem is that he has to demonstrate that he's fit and well NOW and scoring against understrength teams or running in gimmes, doesn't do that despite what our southern brethern would have us believe. There is an elevated standard of proof at this level. If this were about whether Zebo should start against Scarlets or even Toulouse, then fine, but its not. Ironically, because its Italy up next and its going to be a points chase to a certain extent, I'd probably take a risk on him, but if it were one of the old 5 nations teams, I'd be less sure.

[neilinboston]

Another thing that is really rather simple is pointing out that nobody has claimed it is just as hard as having to face a top international side in the worlds biggest rugby tournament. I just don't get why everything he does should be dismissed out of hand immediately. I don't have the important information on his conditioning but since coming off the bench against Edinburgh in the HEC, he has played 3 full games for Munster. Even allowing for the opposition, I think there might be a bit of evidence there thaT his fitness has improved and his conditioning too.

But even if it is not deemed good enough by the coaching staff, that's not what I was talking about. We have an Irish winger scoring tries for his club but instead of people here acknowledging that positively, we want to go off on one about how sh!t Zebre or Cardiff are.

Its all about context though. Zebre and Cardiff, stripped of their internationals are sh!t - thats a fact, so a Lions winger scoring against them isn't a sign of anything at all really. We know that a fit and well Zebo is an international class winger, he has proved that in the past, his problem is that he has to demonstrate that he's fit and well NOW and scoring against understrength teams or running in gimmes, doesn't do that despite what our southern brethern would have us believe. There is an elevated standard of proof at this level. If this were about whether Zebo should start against Scarlets or even Toulouse, then fine, but its not. Ironically, because its Italy up next and its going to be a points chase to a certain extent, I'd probably take a risk on him, but if it were one of the old 5 nations teams, I'd be less sure.

Scotland?

[Dave Cahill]

Well perhaps not Scotland

[All Blacks nil]

Zebo just scored his 5th try (this one from 70yards) in 4 games. Not a question of not blinking. just open your eyes

Well taken, but the ball squirting out of the ruck to an open goal is the type of opportunity that you won't get against this England in Twickenham. Munster are one of the teams in the Pro12 least affected by international call ups and you'd expect a team of their calibre to be putting their opposition to the sword with the ease. And they have putting 115pts on 3 teams for an aggregate of 83 pts

Just open your eyes, 5 tries against teams that are getting a hammering isn't that amazing and doesn't suggest he had the winning of yesterdays match in him.

Seem to remember Tuilaga scoring a similar try v Ireland in recent years

Watch it again, snaps the ball up as it squirts out, a trademark spin out of a tackle and he is away. 13-8 at the time a one score game. Ferg would have dived on it.

Besides P Try how many other Leinster players have five tries this season in the same league or HC. How many tries have the MD23 wingers scored?

McFadden 455 minutes played for Leinster this season. 0 tries

D Kearney 1066 minutes 2 tries last September

BOD 544 minutes 1 try

Darcy 884 minutes 1 try.



Zebo 620 mins 5 tries all scored in last four matches ie 290 minutes

[suisse]

Another thing that is really rather simple is pointing out that nobody has claimed it is just as hard as having to face a top international side in the worlds biggest rugby tournament. I just don't get why everything he does should be dismissed out of hand immediately. I don't have the important information on his conditioning but since coming off the bench against Edinburgh in the HEC, he has played 3 full games for Munster. Even allowing for the opposition, I think there might be a bit of evidence there thaT his fitness has improved and his conditioning too.

But even if it is not deemed good enough by the coaching staff, that's not what I was talking about. We have an Irish winger scoring tries for his club but instead of people here acknowledging that positively, we want to go off on one about how sh!t Zebre or Cardiff are.

Its all about context though. Zebre and Cardiff, stripped of their internationals are sh!t - thats a fact, so a Lions winger scoring against them isn't a sign of anything at all really. We know that a fit and well Zebo is an international class winger, he has proved that in the past, his problem is that he has to demonstrate that he's fit and well NOW and scoring against understrength teams or running in gimmes, doesn't do that despite what our southern brethern would have us believe. There is an elevated standard of proof at this level. If this were about whether Zebo should start against Scarlets or even Toulouse, then fine, but its not. Ironically, because its Italy up next and its going to be a points chase to a certain extent, I'd probably take a risk on him, but if it were one of the old 5 nations teams, I'd be less sure.

Fair enough, but as I said, maybe the fitness staff are not convinced, my original point was about how dismissive we are (of what he is doing). It might be a reaction to having the same 3/4 posters coming on here constantly banging the Zebo drum, even though the wingers did OK on Saturday and they didn't contribute to the loss.

I wouldn't necessarily play him, but I'd bring him in to the training squad and have a better look at him.

I thought Dave and Rob Kearney were unfairly criticized for the try on Saturday by some fans away from here. I've been critical of Rob before but that looks like making an argument where there isn't one.

[suisse]

I'm not going to lie, good Belgian beer robbed my ability to make sense.

What are you drinking?

in fairness my fat vs fit argument was fundamentally flawed mostly by the aforementioned beer (I'm gunning for you're #mostdrunkposter award! f%~k you Korean sake!

I hate sake and soju. Devil's urine. Cheap ass Asian beers always do the trick.

[neilinboston]

What are you drinking?

in fairness my fat vs fit argument was fundamentally flawed mostly by the aforementioned beer (I'm gunning for you're #mostdrunkposter award! f%~k you Korean sake!

I hate sake and soju. Devil's urine. Cheap ass Asian beers always do the trick.

as a fan of American craft beer (hello hops), i had hot sake last week because it was-10 and it seemed appropriate...why would one want bad white wine hot? freeze the sh!t out of it so i can't taste it please! i apologize for my 'Asia is all the same'insinuation.

[paddyor]

McFadden 455 minutes played for Leinster this season. 0 tries

D Kearney 1066 minutes 2 tries last September

BOD 544 minutes 1 try

Darcy 884 minutes 1 try.



Zebo 620 mins 5 tries all scored in last four matches ie 290 minutes

Darren Hudson 115 minutes 3 trys (Scarlets, Zebre & NGD)

Your move bluffer!

[suisse]

I don't really like craft beers to be honest. A bit like predicting Belgium to well at the world cup, it is the hipster's choice.

I just think sh!t like soju and sake burns the throat. Very cheap though. Locked on 2 euro.

[neilinboston]

Another thing that is really rather simple is pointing out that nobody has claimed it is just as hard as having to face a top international side in the worlds biggest rugby tournament. I just don't get why everything he does should be dismissed out of hand immediately. I don't have the important information on his conditioning but since coming off the bench against Edinburgh in the HEC, he has played 3 full games for Munster. Even allowing for the opposition, I think there might be a bit of evidence there thaT his fitness has improved and his conditioning too.

But even if it is not deemed good enough by the coaching staff, that's not what I was talking about. We have an Irish winger scoring tries for his club but instead of people here acknowledging that positively, we want to go off on one about how sh!t Zebre or Cardiff are.

Its all about context though. Zebre and Cardiff, stripped of their internationals are sh!t - thats a fact, so a Lions winger scoring against them isn't a sign of anything at all really. We know that a fit and well Zebo is an international class winger, he has proved that in the past, his problem is that he has to demonstrate that he's fit and well NOW and scoring against understrength teams or running in gimmes, doesn't do that despite what our southern brethern would have us believe. There is an elevated standard of proof at this level. If this were about whether Zebo should start against Scarlets or even Toulouse, then fine, but its not. Ironically, because its Italy up next and its going to be a points chase to a certain extent, I'd probably take a risk on him, but if it were one of the old 5 nations teams, I'd be less sure.

Fair enough, but as I said, maybe the fitness staff are not convinced, my original point was about how dismissive we are (of what he is doing). It might be a reaction to having the same 3/4 posters coming on here constantly banging the Zebo drum, even though the wingers did OK on Saturday and they didn't contribute to the loss.

I wouldn't necessarily play him, but I'd bring him in to the training squad and have a better look at him.

I thought Dave and Rob Kearney were unfairly criticized for the try on Saturday by some fans away from here. I've been critical of Rob before but that looks like making an argument where there isn't one.

i fully agree that training squads should look at potentially good players.Zebo should get a look.I'm not a huge fan of'wingers only make breaks that our slow midfield/out of tune backrow can cover so we can cover the ruck and recycle well philosophy

[neilinboston]

I don't really like craft beers to be honest. A bit like predicting Belgium to well at the world cup, it is the hipster's choice.

I just think sh!t like soju and sake burns the throat. Very cheap though. Locked on 2 euro.

f%~k? i even have a beard! i love craft beer...i love small produced food.i might be a hipster! my favorite bar's first question...'what's your favorite liquor?' in case you're wondering...its Mescal...aka crazy juice

[suisse]

Enjoy that Sunday on the Belgians then. Monday afternoon here. Time for a dry lunch.

[paddyor]

Fair enough, but as I said, maybe the fitness staff are not convinced, my original point was about how dismissive we are (of what he is doing). It might be a reaction to having the same 3/4 posters coming on here constantly banging the Zebo drum, even though the wingers did OK on Saturday and they didn't contribute to the loss.

I wouldn't necessarily play him, but I'd bring him in to the training squad and have a better look at him.

I thought Dave and Rob Kearney were unfairly criticized for the try on Saturday by some fans away from here. I've been critical of Rob before but that looks like making an argument where there isn't one.

We've done the Zebo arguement to death over 3 or 4 threads now. I've heard more about his "private live" on and off this board in the past couple of weeks and the supposed reasons for him not being included that I've come full circle to thinking it's precisely just what Schmidt and Kiss have said it is. I'm sick to death of it at this stage. The suggestion by some that he Schmidt needs to public out the player as a "tool" to explain his rational is ridiculous and counter productive for both.

He's playing in a team that's put 115pts on 3 severly weakened teams. Only Connacht, Zebre, and Edinburgh could lay claim to the dubious honour of being less affected by international call ups. They were lazy about the Ospreys Sunday, the BP was there if they wanted it. His form prior to injury wasn't great and didn't suggest he'd waltz or pirouette back into the 23. He's done enough to suggest he's back to fitness and should be back in the squad but not enough to demand he should have been in the squad to begin with. It wasn't risky or indefensible to leave him out.

Fair point about including Jones ahead of Zebo.

[desperado]

As this the Eng v Ireland thread I'm tired of all the stats on Rabo, discussion of Zebo etc etc. I've just read GTs article http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/i ... -1.1702014 and personally, I'd have to say its one of the better pieces he's written. I'm in the US and watched the game there early in the am; I was pretty shocked with the negativity post match reaction on this forum in particular that thrown D'arcy and Drico's way.

[suisse]

As this the Eng v Ireland thread I'm tired of all the stats on Rabo, discussion of Zebo etc etc. I've just read GTs article http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/i ... -1.1702014 and personally, I'd have to say its one of the better pieces he's written. I'm in the US and watched the game there early in the am; I was pretty shocked with the negativity post match reaction on this forum in particular that thrown D'arcy and Drico's way.

It is a forum, no?

I don't think the centres deserve much criticism for what they did. D'arcy "inched out extra metres" as Thornley rightly said, I thought he and BOD played fine. But we do have issues there and I think that's what people are alluding to. I would rest D'arcy for the game in two weeks time however. Get him back for the France game.

I honestly feel Thornley let's himself down with sentences like this;

Two big mauls either side of a huge Irish scrum followed for Sexton to make it 10-3 and the Fields echoed around Twickenham. Fleetingly, it felt good to be Irish.

Obsession with "The Fields" is never ending.

[TrapperChamonix]

Interesting from Dean Richards

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... harlequins

As much as we might have benefited from a fit SOB or Bowe / Zebo / Fitzgerald or a rejuvenated Gilroy, I can't help thinking that the addition of Corbiserbo and Cole will make England a really formidable outfit. Either way, I would expect them to put Wales to the sword. Loosing twice in a row to Wales plus so many being overlooked for the Lions (Care, Robshaw, Wood, Browne etc) will fire up the bitterness factor. England by 15.