France v Ireland

[All Blacks nil]

Kicking is a bit of a problem at the moment, who is his kicking coach again?

In fairness with ROGs help it should be sorted out quickly.

STAT ALERT
THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS STATISTICS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO STATS, LOOK AWAY NOW.

Jonny kicked 18/24 in the championship and returned a 75% success rate. However on closer inspection a major weakness is exposed.

While Jonny kicked 15/16 from the left or centre of the pitch he only kicked 3/8 (37.5%)from the right hand side.

4 of the 5 misses were from the same spot i.e. the 15m mark on the 22m line (typically lineout penalties inside the 22 are taken from in and around this spot),the exact same spot he missed from against NewZealand. Of the 3 clutch kicks from the position (2 v France and 1 v England) he was 1/3.

Is this just a temporary blip or is it a worrying trend.Certainly any world class placekicker would expect 100% from that position. Something to work on.

[Raydollard]

The cognoscenti on this site regard such kicks as gimmes. However the human factor comes in - but these misses are costly. This is something that can be sorted and should be.

[blockhead]

The 2 missed kicks on Saturday were gimmes for any international 10. And they add to list of big kicks that he has missed while in green. Either he improves fast or we have somone else on the pitch to kick goals or he has to be replaced.

[Fireworks]

They are worrying kicks to miss but I would happily have him at 10 with that worry because of everything else he brings to the game.

[All Blacks nil]

The 2 missed kicks on Saturday were gimmes for any international 10. And they add to list of big kicks that he has missed while in green. Either he improves fast or we have somone else on the pitch to kick goals or he has to be replaced.

Johnny went to the 2011 RWC as the undisputed first choice out half. However when his kicking went askew in the first two games,(2/6 v Usa and 2/5 v Australia) ROG was called upon to steer the ship home. He was then Starting out half in every gameof the 2012 Six Nations but unfortunatelyhis kicking woes continued v Wales where 3 missed kicks proved costly in a 23 -21 home defeat.

Jonny is not and never has been a clutch kicker.

A Halfpenny for your thoughts!!!!!

The lions had the perfect scenario with 1/2p kicking and Johnny running the show. Time to pick Mcfadden on the wing methinks.

[Oldschool]

Kicking is a bit of a problem at the moment, who is his kicking coach again?

In fairness with ROGs help it should be sorted out quickly.

STAT ALERT
THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS STATISTICS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO STATS, LOOK AWAY NOW.

Jonny kicked 18/24 in the championship and returned a 75% success rate. However on closer inspection a major weakness is exposed.

While Jonny kicked 15/16 from the left or centre of the pitch he only kicked 3/8 (37.5%)from the right hand side.

4 of the 5 misses were from the same spot i.e. the 15m mark on the 22m line (typically lineout penalties inside the 22 are taken from in and around this spot),the exact same spot he missed from against NewZealand. Of the 3 clutch kicks from the position (2 v France and 1 v England) he was 1/3.

Is this just a temporary blip or is it a worrying trend.Certainly any world class placekicker would expect 100% from that position. Something to work on.

Finally!
Possible solutions:-
1. Looking at Sexton's ball placement it seemed that the ball was badly set. It was possible to predict even which side of centre of the posts the ball was going to go and indeed if it would be likely to be outside the posts. That shouldn't have been possible.
Sexton has gone thru bad phases in the past with his kicking and nearly always it has been down to the angle at which he approaches the ball. It's been quite obvious that he is addressing the ball from the wrong angle.
On Saturday, the angle didn't look too off tbh. It's possible he is trying to learn a new technique or refinement from ROG and it's just taking a bit of time.

2. Ireland, whenever possible, keep the play on the side that favours the kicker's stats and conversely disfavours the opposition's kicker (footedness)

3. Have a back up kicker on the pitch, McFadden and Madigan (85% I think) are both very good kickers and probably both have better stats than Sexton.

4. Can Simon Zebo kick?

Anyway AB0 - Good and justified post.
On the clutch kicks I don't really think it's the issue see 1. above.

[All Blacks nil]

Kicking is a bit of a problem at the moment, who is his kicking coach again?

In fairness with ROGs help it should be sorted out quickly.

STAT ALERT
THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS STATISTICS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO STATS, LOOK AWAY NOW.

Jonny kicked 18/24 in the championship and returned a 75% success rate. However on closer inspection a major weakness is exposed.

While Jonny kicked 15/16 from the left or centre of the pitch he only kicked 3/8 (37.5%)from the right hand side.

4 of the 5 misses were from the same spot i.e. the 15m mark on the 22m line (typically lineout penalties inside the 22 are taken from in and around this spot),the exact same spot he missed from against NewZealand. Of the 3 clutch kicks from the position (2 v France and 1 v England) he was 1/3.

Is this just a temporary blip or is it a worrying trend.Certainly any world class placekicker would expect 100% from that position. Something to work on.

Finally!
Possible solutions:-
1. Looking at Sexton's ball placement it seemed that the ball was badly set. It was possible to predict even which side of centre of the posts the ball was going to go and indeed if it would be likely to be outside the posts. That shouldn't have been possible.
Sexton has gone thru bad phases in the past with his kicking and nearly always it has been down to the angle at which he approaches the ball.
On Saturday, the angle didn't look too off tbh. It's possible he is trying to learn a new technique or refinement from ROG and it's just taking a bit of time.

2. Ireland, whenever possible, keep the play on the side that favours the kicker's stats and conversely disfavours the opposition's kicker (footedness)

3. Have a back up kicker on the pitch, McFadden and Madigan (85% I think) are both very good kickers and probably both have better stats than Sexton.

4. Can Simon Zebo kick?

Anyway AB0 - Good and justified post.

By the way this problem was there when the ROG/ Sexton debate was raging

Solution 1Jonny's technique will be examined,however his mentalskills needsharpening.
Solution 2 please tell me you are kidding. What would happen if you came up against Parra? Maybe we could keep it on his wrong side in our half and attack the other side in their half. Would that make Dave Kearney obselete?
Solution 3 an international class back that can kick, not an international class kicker who can play backs. Would either of them be in your first choice team with Johnny at outhalf
Solution 4 is not a solution as Dave Kearney knows the system

[fourthirtythree]

I think a couple of points bear remembering
Sexton's kicking "failure" is from conversions rather than penalties (10 from 12) there.
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
we scored the most tries
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
while conceding the fewest
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
and Sexton was joint top scorer (along with the guy who everyone has down as best player in the tournament)
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
And Sexton's "failure" stat of only getting 75% matches our outhalf the last time we won the competition
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=293

EDIT
This is only a conversation in Ireland. All the English papers for example note that he is the best outhalf in the NH and he's in everybody's team of the tournament. I'm calling artificial shenanigans on the whole narrative.

[suisse]

The 2 missed kicks on Saturday were gimmes for any international 10. And they add to list of big kicks that he has missed while in green. Either he improves fast or we have somone else on the pitch to kick goals or he has to be replaced.

Johnny went to the 2011 RWC as the undisputed first choice out half. However when his kicking went askew in the first two games,(2/6 v Usa and 2/5 v Australia) ROG was called upon to steer the ship home. He was then Starting out half in every gameof the 2012 Six Nations but unfortunatelyhis kicking woes continued v Wales where 3 missed kicks proved costly in a 23 -21 home defeat.

Jonny is not and never has been a clutch kicker.

A Halfpenny for your thoughts!!!!!

The lions had the perfect scenario with 1/2p kicking and Johnny running the show. Time to pick Mcfadden on the wing methinks.

"ROG was called on to steer the ship home."

Not a single mention of the QF which ROG produced one of the worst performances of his career. I don't want to throw ROG under the bus but you're selective analysis lead to this.

[johng]

"ROG was called on to steer the ship home."

Not a single mention of the QF which ROG produced one of the worst performances of his career. I don't want to throw ROG under the bus but you're selective analysis lead to this.

Can you make a post without using this phrase? You are worse than Gerry Thornley

Stupid phrase anyway

[suisse]

I think a couple of points bear remembering
Sexton's kicking "failure" is from conversions rather than penalties (10 from 12) there.
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
we scored the most tries
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
while conceding the fewest
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
and Sexton was joint top scorer (along with the guy who everyone has down as best player in the tournament)
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
And Sexton's "failure" stat of only getting 75% matches our outhalf the last time we won the competition
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=293

But the misses were really bad. That's the problem. He may be kicking 75% but the ones he missed were very poor and they were kicks any top level place kicker should be getting. We went on to win the game and championship but if we want to win Grand Slams, beat NZ or make RWC SFs, our place kicker can not miss chances like that.

I hugely admire Sexton. Undoubtedly our main fly half but when presented with chances like that he must be converting them. Conversions or penalties. It wasn't a one off.

[suisse]

"ROG was called on to steer the ship home."

Not a single mention of the QF which ROG produced one of the worst performances of his career. I don't want to throw ROG under the bus but you're selective analysis lead to this.

Can you make a post without using this phrase? You are worse than Gerry Thornley

Stupid phrase anyway

I was making the point that ABN is assuredly trolling

[All Blacks nil]

The 2 missed kicks on Saturday were gimmes for any international 10. And they add to list of big kicks that he has missed while in green. Either he improves fast or we have somone else on the pitch to kick goals or he has to be replaced.

Johnny went to the 2011 RWC as the undisputed first choice out half. However when his kicking went askew in the first two games,(2/6 v Usa and 2/5 v Australia) ROG was called upon to steer the ship home. He was then Starting out half in every gameof the 2012 Six Nations but unfortunatelyhis kicking woes continued v Wales where 3 missed kicks proved costly in a 23 -21 home defeat.

Jonny is not and never has been a clutch kicker.

A Halfpenny for your thoughts!!!!!

The lions had the perfect scenario with 1/2p kicking and Johnny running the show. Time to pick Mcfadden on the wing methinks.

"ROG was called on to steer the ship home."

Not a single mention of the QF which ROG produced one of the worst performances of his career. I don't want to throw ROG under the bus but you're selective analysis lead to this.

Here we go again

As Ireland were all over Australia but because of poor placekicking 2/5 ROG was called on to steer the ship home.
If Johnny had kicked his kicks, Rog would have been a bit part player, and Jonny might have been in a position to lead Ireland through that 1/4 final.
But he didn' tkick his kicks, as he didn'tagain on Saturday.
If that French penalty had gone over (terrible miss,although Ireland cunningly conceded the penalty on the left side knowing the French kicker was left footed----isn't that right OLDSCHOOL) Sexton's kicking frailities would be the subject of many inquiries.
You must also remember that of the 24 kicks attempted by Sexton in the Chapionship only 6 were outside the 15m line and and only 2 kicks were from more than 35 metres. In other words the degree of difficulty involved was moderate with 6 kicks (25%) being conversions in and around the goalposts. 75% all of a sudden isn't so passable.

[fourthirtythree]

I think a couple of points bear remembering
Sexton's kicking "failure" is from conversions rather than penalties (10 from 12) there.
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
we scored the most tries
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
while conceding the fewest
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
and Sexton was joint top scorer (along with the guy who everyone has down as best player in the tournament)
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
And Sexton's "failure" stat of only getting 75% matches our outhalf the last time we won the competition
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=293

But the misses were really bad. That's the problem. He may be kicking 75% but the ones he missed were very poor and they were kicks any top level place kicker should be getting. We went on to win the game and championship but if we want to win Grand Slams, beat NZ or make RWC SFs, our place kicker can not miss chances like that.

I hugely admire Sexton. Undoubtedly our main fly half but when presented with chances like that he must be converting them. Conversions or penalties. It wasn't a one off.

Sure, and O'Gara's misses (against England for example) the year we won the grand slam were awful too. Sexton was simply not the liability the narrative is claiming he was. He contributed hugely in attack and defence and everybody outside Ireland sees him as easily the best outhalf in the NH and in the 6N. Perhaps we should be looking at someone else taking kicks rather than have to have the outhalf doing it all the time? If Madigan or Hanrahan, for example who are both better placed ball kickers than Sexton played at 12 next year options would open up.

Apart from that we need to see if we can get a long range goal kicker into the squad.

[All Blacks nil]

I think a couple of points bear remembering
Sexton's kicking "failure" is from conversions rather than penalties (10 from 12) there.
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
we scored the most tries
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
while conceding the fewest
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
and Sexton was joint top scorer (along with the guy who everyone has down as best player in the tournament)
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=448
And Sexton's "failure" stat of only getting 75% matches our outhalf the last time we won the competition
http://rugby.statbunker.com/competition ... omp_id=293

But the misses were really bad. That's the problem. He may be kicking 75% but the ones he missed were very poor and they were kicks any top level place kicker should be getting. We went on to win the game and championship but if we want to win Grand Slams, beat NZ or make RWC SFs, our place kicker can not miss chances like that.

I hugely admire Sexton. Undoubtedly our main fly half but when presented with chances like that he must be converting them. Conversions or penalties. It wasn't a one off.

Sure, and O'Gara's misses (against England for example) the year we won the grand slam were awful too. Sexton was simply not the liability the narrative is claiming he was. He contributed hugely in attack and defence and everybody outside Ireland sees him as easily the best outhalf in the NH and in the 6N. Perhaps we should be looking at someone else taking kicks rather than have to have the outhalf doing it all the time? If Madigan or Hanrahan, for example who are both better placed ball kickers than Sexton played at 12 next year options would open up.

Apart from that we need to see if we can get a long range goal kicker into the squad.

I am not talking about defensive or attacking contributions.Sexton is not found wanting in either department
I am talking about placekicking

[All Blacks nil]

"ROG was called on to steer the ship home."

Not a single mention of the QF which ROG produced one of the worst performances of his career. I don't want to throw ROG under the bus but you're selective analysis lead to this.

Can you make a post without using this phrase? You are worse than Gerry Thornley

Stupid phrase anyway

I was making the point that ABN is assuredly trolling

i referred to that situation to show that Sexton is not and has not been a clutch kicker for Ireland. No other agenda
A simple exercise for all of you.
When watching a TV game keep a record of players kicking , similar to TV graphics showing where the kick was taken from and whether or not it is successful. A little notebook near the TV will suffice.
It is amazing how quickly you will accumulate a database to judge kickers on apart from the obvious success percentage rates that can at times be misrepresentative. For example JJ Hanrahan kicked 10/10 in agame this season. 7 were under the posts. Disregard those seven kicks and he is still 100% for the evening with 3/3, but those equivalent of tap in putts do not skew your season's real kicking percentage.
Then you can be an anorak like me. I am so bad now I have separate notebooks for separate players

[suisse]

@ 443, I agree ROG's place kicking was brutal in 2009 but hardly relevant to bring it up now. I agree with everything else you say about Sexton (all forms of play) such as his other contributions. I just feel that some posters are too keen to hammer anyone who questions what were very poor attempts by bringing up stats. Place kicking has been an issue since he made his debut in 2009. As one journo said when naming his 6 Nations team, selecting Sexton without Halfpenny means Johnny kicks and that makes a few people uncomfortable.

@ ABN by adding Dave Kearney to your team of the championship and at the same time starting a brand new thread designed to expose Schmidt by excluding "undroppable" Kearney from the Leinster team means you could just be taking the piss on everything.

[Edna Kenny]

Sexton can kick under pressure, he demonstrated that by nailing his penalty after the 2 misses and dodgy conversion. The pressure on him for that kick was enormous. The crowd were on his back and thought they could get at him. Montpellier for the draw was another massive pressure kick a few years ago.

Maybe everyone expects perfection and I'm sure he expects it of himself as well but there is no hiding place for a kicker.

If, if, if that French penalty had gone over we would have lost the game. We could talk all day about what ifs but the fact is it didn't go over.

Players like Halfpenny are freaks, Jonny is not at his level but most place kickers aren't. He did score 4 tries though. The only person who's opinion I would respect on Jonny's kicking would be ROG's.

[fourthirtythree]

I've no difficulty with talking about Sexton's kicking, but I don't think you can do it without recognising what he brings to the team and how utterly vital he was as an attacking force. If you simply separate his kicking from the game, and from the context it happened in - he really needs to improve his kicking which at 75% is short of the 80+ that international place kickers are expected to have. And which he has had for most of his time with Ireland as it happens. You can't do that when weighing the balance sheet on a player though. As Kidney found out to everyone's disappointment in the World Cup in '11. If place kicking was all an outhalf did Madigan would have been starting for Ireland rather than being a long way from it.

And I do think mentioning '09 is relevant: the symmetry is also irresistible.

[Oldschool]

I've no difficulty with talking about Sexton's kicking, but I don't think you can do it without recognising what he brings to the team and how utterly vital he was as an attacking force. If you simply separate his kicking from the game, and from the context it happened in - he really needs to improve his kicking which at 75% is short of the 80+ that international place kickers are expected to have. And which he has had for most of his time with Ireland as it happens. You can't do that when weighing the balance sheet on a player though. As Kidney found out to everyone's disappointment in the World Cup in '11. If place kicking was all an outhalf did Madigan would have been starting for Ireland rather than being a long way from it.

And I do think mentioning '09 is relevant: the symmetry is also irresistible.

Yeah sure but it's not about symmetry, it's about Sexton' current lack of form with the boot.
Nobody's suggesting dropping him either implied or otherwise, so like 2009 it's a red herring.
Stick to the point, suggest an analysis of his current problems and possible solutions and stop telling the rest of us we've no right to make a point (Your ref: Artificial shenanigans),