Summer tour to Argentina

[JB1973]

good win in a tough place to go, Ireland can be happy with their 2014 of test rugby.

A back row of Ruddock sob and heaslip should be something for you guys to look forward to next year

Got the distinct impression that Joe Schmidt wasn't happy.

...and he shouldn't have been happy, we were very sloppy at times during the two tests.

fair enough but you have won two tests away from home against a decent side.

The year after a lions tour and a hard season of domestic rugby and a successful 6 nations campaign.

TBH England and Ireland look well ahead of the rest of European rugby at the moment and that doesn't look like changing any time soon

[offshorerules]

I used to enjoy the skill with which Declan Kidney avoided answering questions after matches. But with time it became very frustrating particularly when performances had been poor. Therefore I am really enjoying the frank and honest way Joe answers questions.

And yes JB, Ireland and England do appear to be ahead of the European pack at the moment but that is going to be of no use whatsoever in the RWC next year and I think that is what Joe has his eye on. That in itself, the ambition, is refreshing.

[simonokeeffe]

IMO Heaslip has been doing a good job of beating people/making yards with footwork and agility. Not necessarily here but there is a significant cadre of rugby supporters that think a no8 should just charge headfirst into contact but not actually make real progress

Everyone available Ireland have a better side than England IMO
While POC and Johnny are irreplaceable for us and we have a hole at 13 England are still overreliant on brute force, have no ball skills in midfield, short on wingers who can defend, have no dominant scrum (best 2 scrummagers injured all the time), will be vulnerable there if they start Vunipola, have their own irreplaceable players eg Care, Farrell

[paddyor]

Everyone available Ireland have a better side than England IMO
While POC and Johnny are irreplaceable for us and we have a hole at 13 England are still overreliant on brute force, have no ball skills in midfield, short on wingers who can defend, have no dominant scrum (best 2 scrummagers injured all the time), will be vulnerable there if they start Vunipola, have their own irreplaceable players eg Care, Farrell

England have a problem at 10, 12, 13. Farrell is a limited player who needs a creative player outside him neither of whom are 36 or Tuilagi(on the evidence so far). They also have Eastmond and Burrell neither seem to be Lancasters preferred choices. Eastmond is quite small but apparently very skillful. Wonder where Burgess will come into the mix?

[Dave Cahill]

Everyone available Ireland have a better side than England IMO
While POC and Johnny are irreplaceable for us and we have a hole at 13 England are still overreliant on brute force, have no ball skills in midfield, short on wingers who can defend, have no dominant scrum (best 2 scrummagers injured all the time), will be vulnerable there if they start Vunipola, have their own irreplaceable players eg Care, Farrell

England have a problem at 10, 12, 13. Farrell is a limited player who needs a creative player outside him neither of whom are 36 or Tuilagi(on the evidence so far). They also have Eastmond and Burrell neither seem to be Lancasters preferred choices. Eastmond is quite small but apparently very skillful. Wonder where Burgess will come into the mix?

I think England would not be too worried. Lets not forget that if it weren't for a couple of flukely french tries they'd be touring as Grand Slam winners.

[paddyor]

I think England would not be too worried. Lets not forget that if it weren't for a couple of flukely french tries they'd be touring as Grand Slam winners.

Had they not butchered so many chances against Scotland (and a 1 or 2 against us) they'd be touring as 6N champions. Lancaster has been at it for 3 years now and still hasn't added that little bit he needs in the backs. Not too worried but definitely a concern.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't think England do have a problem in midfield. I'm not Farrell's biggest fan and think he loses the head a lot when the pressure is on but there's also a decent body of work to suggest he can get England's attack going. He's young and very often takes the wrong option but I'd expect him to improve that and he has competition now too which is healthy.

They've got a collection of centres that I'm jealous of tbh. I think the problem is that they put the foundations in place for a really solid and efficient team and can be world beaters with that plan, but are trying to move away from those strengths a bit. Basically they're trying to add strings to their bow but it's not really working. Once they strike the right combinations and tactics they should be awesome though.

Essentially I think they need to do a Gatland on it. I can understand why they would want to vary their game (and they can do it in other ways than having an all dancing midfield) but if they just copy Wales a bit, it'd be better to get 100% competent at what they're good at than to diminish their midfield power by forcing non-footballers to play ball or having lesser players step in and decreasing the impact of someone like Tuilagi.

[offshorerules]

I think England are stronger than us in a lot of areas and I worry that we will be beaten at home by them again in 2015.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think England are stronger than us in a lot of areas and I worry that we will be beaten at home by them again in 2015.

I worry too, think they have massive potential. Lancaster has done a brilliant job but if you replaced him with Joe then they would be my favourites for the World Cup.

[ronk]

I think we've addressed areas of weakness. We have worked on the tight game and have found a way to get the best out of players like Trimble. We have a solid scrum that's getting better.

Schmidt tried to add width in attack and you could see that it was playing into Argentina's hands a little, but we persevered with it and got better. Later we can develop in the inside options again.

We need to up standards in rucking too.

England are still getting better.

[jezzer]

I don't think England do have a problem in midfield. I'm not Farrell's biggest fan and think he loses the head a lot when the pressure is on but there's also a decent body of work to suggest he can get England's attack going. He's young and very often takes the wrong option but I'd expect him to improve that and he has competition now too which is healthy.

They've got a collection of centres that I'm jealous of tbh. I think the problem is that they put the foundations in place for a really solid and efficient team and can be world beaters with that plan, but are trying to move away from those strengths a bit. Basically they're trying to add strings to their bow but it's not really working. Once they strike the right combinations and tactics they should be awesome though.

Essentially I think they need to do a Gatland on it. I can understand why they would want to vary their game (and they can do it in other ways than having an all dancing midfield) but if they just copy Wales a bit, it'd be better to get 100% competent at what they're good at than to diminish their midfield power by forcing non-footballers to play ball or having lesser players step in and decreasing the impact of someone like Tuilagi.

Spot on, lrip.

[paddyor]

Barritt, Burrell, Eastmond, Tompkins, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees have played 12/13 in the past year. On top of that they've used Flood/Farrell as 2nd 5/8th. It appears Barritt and Tompkins are out and I wouldn't be at all jealous of having them 2 as options. The only player who appears to be nailed on is Tuilagi so much so that he started at wing last Saturday. Granted a lot of those selections were to some extent injury enforced but that's still a high number of different combinations. Whether it's brave or not to experiment with so many combinations or pick one and let it bed in is debatable. It seemed to work at fullback and scrumhalf. I kind of like it but not Tuilagi on the wing.

Was impressed by Burrell in the 6N and what I've seen of him for saints would be interested to see him and Tuilagi in the middle. For that to work though I think they need a more creative OH. Twelvetress consistently does some good things and some bad things and again I wouldn't be jealous of him as an option. While it's good to see them trying to add a string to their bow I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that they will. IMO by the end of next years 6n he'll have to have settled on a combination whatever it's limitations. As you say.

Essentially I think they need to do a Gatland on it. I can understand why they would want to vary their game (and they can do it in other ways than having an all dancing midfield) but if they just copy Wales a bit, it'd be better to get 100% competent at what they're good at than to diminish their midfield power by forcing non-footballers to play ball or having lesser players step in and decreasing the impact of someone like Tuilagi.

I'm not convinced it will be enough though. There inability to convert dominance into scores cost them the 6N and was also costly against NZ.

On Farrell, he is undisputed first choice 10. He hasn't developed enough this season or last. Even at club level(Barritt/Tompkins midfield) when Saracens need trys they look to Charlie Hodgson. I can't see him developing that much in a year for the RWC.(He's starting to break with increased frequency as well). His competition for the jersey is no healthier than Sextons and just as green too. Burns was only in the squad because Ford (less than 5 caps ) got injured. Though he showed up well in the first test after a bad season at Gloucester(there's hope for Madigan) he was dropped as soon as Farrell was available. if they're sticking with Farrell at 10 they've got a problem in Midfield

[Ruckedtobits]

Would love to enter the debate about England strengths and weaknesses but focussed on other issue which is assessment of Arg v Ire. Seems to be some degree of non-recognition that Argentina are the "Ireland" of the SH. They have a shed load of players "omitted" because they want to have their French-based players contractually available under IRB rules for the Championship in September. They have an "Emerging Argentina" team playing in Georgia (last Saturday) where they beat Italy A by 36-15. They are slated to enter a team in the Super 16 competition in 2015-16 and they have been as high as 5th in the IRB Rankings since the last World Cup. All that and we are giving our team grief for winning a series 2-0 in Argentina regional grounds How quickly we forget!

Irish teams of the past decade had many "excellent performances" without results, just as Leinster this Season had many excellent results without performances. The reality is that as our teams learn how to win, they also learn that, most times, doing what you are better at than the opposition is what wins. Certainly more often than doing what excites fans but which is higher risk because a) you cannot always do it perfectly and b) because it gives the opponent a better chance of stopping it.

Winning rugby games, without a very high degree of skill in each position, against even reasonably, well-drilled, opponents from Tier 1 is not easy. Argentina, when they have finished this Season's June tours games will have a well organised Squad of players with real depth and recent relevant experience. I would expect them to be competitive in the Championship against each of their three opponents at home. I would also expect that Ireland's standing and the value of their 2-0 defeat of Argentina on their home grounds will be evaluated with more respect at the end of September than at the end of June - even on this platform

[simonokeeffe]

Lancaster still lingers over the 2 fullbacks policy too

Cant see them outscoring an up to speed/relatively full strength NZ or out boshing SA

IMO Lancaster with England is like McLoughlin with Ulster

[offshorerules]

I think Lancaster knows he lacks depth at wing and picks accordingly. There are one or two coming along like Yarde that will help.

[offshorerules]

Not a bad summary in the IT today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/i ... -1.1834399?

[simonokeeffe]

I think Lancaster knows he lacks depth at wing and picks accordingly. There are one or two coming along like Yarde that will help.

Yarde defended like the ghost of Ian Humphries in last test

Foden might get a recall after today and him or angry Mike on wing

[offshorerules]

I think Lancaster knows he lacks depth at wing and picks accordingly. There are one or two coming along like Yarde that will help.

Yarde defended like the ghost of Ian Humphries in last test

Foden might get a recall after today and him or angry Mike on wing

Didn't see the match so couldn't comment. I've always liked Foden but gets back to the 2 fbs problem.

[paddyor]

I think Lancaster knows he lacks depth at wing and picks accordingly. There are one or two coming along like Yarde that will help.

Yarde defended like the ghost of Ian Humphries in last test

Foden might get a recall after today and him or angry Mike on wing

I think Brown is nailed on with nails for the FB spot. The Wingilagi project failed and I'd expect him to revert to Nowell and May if they're fit. Yarde is big though.....

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Lancaster still lingers over the 2 fullbacks policy too

Cant see them outscoring an up to speed/relatively full strength NZ or out boshing SA

IMO Lancaster with England is like McLoughlin with Ulster

They have this kind of performance in them though.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/20534229

They both scored 3 tries that day but England were certainly dominant. I think they can get back to that kind of performance.

Agree with the McLoughlin comparison. I always feel it's relatively easy for a new coach to come in and improve the basics at set piece and in defence. It's adding things after that that is really difficult and always thought Lancaster would struggle with that. Where I was wrong was that I didn't think they'd be capable of the performance I mentioned above, or some of the attacking plays they came up with in the 6N. I thought they'd be "found out" once they had got themselves together, but actually they're very very impressive at playing that basic gameplan.

If Lancaster comes to the conclusion that its better to have Tuilagi bashing holes up the middle and butchering some chances than to have him wasted on the wing or to have someone like Twelvetrees bringing average wingers into the game at the expense of that watertight defence then they will be so hard to beat.