Heaslip in decline since '09?

[Heaslipped]

To be fair to the journalist he does try and make it dramatic. Amazing that he knows how Thorn sounded when he said.

Am I missing something here? Is the entire article not written by Justin Marshall? (it says so under the headline) And he surely knows the gravelly voice of Thorn from years playing with him.

[paddyor]

To be fair to the journalist he does try and make it dramatic. Amazing that he knows how Thorn sounded when he said.

Am I missing something here? Is the entire article not written by Justin Marshall? (it says so under the headline) And he surely knows the gravelly voice of Thorn from years playing with him.

He didn't hear him say it though. He's just imagining it
It was a dark noight in Dublin. When some Mick who once knee'd Rutchie in the head was mouthing off at training until the gravely tones of a kiwi legend put him in his place........The blues should sign him
Leinster don't train at night. He doesn't name the loosie(could be Auva or SOB). Embellishing a lie/story tends to backfire. I've heard variations on this story a few times before except it was in the HEC final(during a game at day time) or another one where Heaslip isn't lifting at the lineout purple monkey dishwasher! That ones different because it doesn't name Heaslip. What actually happened was, I know because I was there.

It was a Thursday around 1130 in the late morning and the team were training in UCD. Thorn had been there for 3.5 - 4 weeks. I think they were just about to wrap up after 1 or 2 more drills. The players looked a bit frustrated. Maybe they just wanted to get going who knows. Anyway Heaslip was talking as they were organising the last drill and the players were standing around, when Thorn steps in and shouts in deep voice "Save your energy for the game the weekend, lets get this finished and get outta here!"

And that's what happened! [urlhttps://www.facebook.com/BradThorn4]Ask Brad.[/url]

[Dexter]

Let me get this right; Heaslip doesn't carry as hard because we have no out and out 7? What's funny is that the majority of posters seem to have settled for this excuse. This might mean that he does extra breakdown work which is laudable. But he is not so busy doing a 7s job that he doesn't carry anymore. He still carries a substantial amount but without the aggression and tenacity that is required to make yards. His lack of dog in contact has nothing to do with us having a 7 or not. That is just an excuse born on a forum to defend his dip in form.

I'll use small words.

Heaslip not big any more. Heaslip small so run fast. Heaslip swap some strong for some more fast move. Leinster have strong. Ireland have strong. Need more fast to make more tackle. Need fast to take ball from bad men.

Heaslip very good now tackle and take ball from bad men. Not so good run through bad men.

Brilliant

[Scott]

___________________________________>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[ichabodscrane]

Let me get this right; Heaslip doesn't carry as hard because we have no out and out 7? What's funny is that the majority of posters seem to have settled for this excuse. This might mean that he does extra breakdown work which is laudable. But he is not so busy doing a 7s job that he doesn't carry anymore. He still carries a substantial amount but without the aggression and tenacity that is required to make yards. His lack of dog in contact has nothing to do with us having a 7 or not. That is just an excuse born on a forum to defend his dip in form.

I'll use small words.

Heaslip not big any more. Heaslip small so run fast. Heaslip swap some strong for some more fast move. Leinster have strong. Ireland have strong. Need more fast to make more tackle. Need fast to take ball from bad men.

Heaslip very good now tackle and take ball from bad men. Not so good run through bad men.

Ha ha brilliant.. Big cows close up, small cows far away.

[simonokeeffe]

anyone else remember the time Justin Marshall threw an onfield tantrum and jumped up and down on the spot?

if Heaslip has been so poor the last 5 years then what does that say about his competition?

[ronk]

anyone else remember the time Justin Marshall threw an onfield tantrum and jumped up and down on the spot?

if Heaslip has been so poor the last 5 years then what does that say about his competition?

Ahem, justice for the Thomond 8!

[Heaslipped]

anyone else remember the time Justin Marshall threw an onfield tantrum and jumped up and down on the spot?

if Heaslip has been so poor the last 5 years then what does that say about his competition?

The competition has been piss poor. is that a reason to excuse his performances though?

[artaneboy]

anyone else remember the time Justin Marshall threw an onfield tantrum and jumped up and down on the spot?

if Heaslip has been so poor the last 5 years then what does that say about his competition?

The competition has been piss poor. is that a reason to excuse his performances though?

Jaysus- are you still here? Pull that rock back over yourself on the way out... good lad.

[simonokeeffe]

anyone else remember the time Justin Marshall threw an onfield tantrum and jumped up and down on the spot?

if Heaslip has been so poor the last 5 years then what does that say about his competition?

The competition has been piss poor. is that a reason to excuse his performances though?

Sean O'Brien and Peter O'Mahony have been especially poor

[nc6000]

anyone else remember the time Justin Marshall threw an onfield tantrum and jumped up and down on the spot?

if Heaslip has been so poor the last 5 years then what does that say about his competition?

The competition has been piss poor. is that a reason to excuse his performances though?

If you were to count your Missus, Sister & Mother would there be more than 2 people?

[leinster4life13]

Sort of agree, but I'd put it down to his style of training rather then a "decline". He may yet do a Soiallo and not get out of his slump and basically be finished as an international 8, but I doubt it, he's way down on power, yes, but that is due to him training for longevity. Explosive athletes get injured, Heaslip doesnt, what is more valuable SOB/Fez style power for a few games or consistency for 50+ games over two years. He has declined, but he is not done, key difference.

[ichabodscrane]

Sort of agree, but I'd put it down to his style of training rather then a "decline". He may yet do a Soiallo and not get out of his slump and basically be finished as an international 8, but I doubt it, he's way down on power, yes, but that is due to him training for longevity. Explosive athletes get injured, Heaslip doesnt, what is more valuable SOB/Fez style power for a few games or consistency for 50+ games over two years. He has declined, but he is not done, key difference.

Tbh I think Heaslip is getting unfair criticism. I don't see Kieran Read doing much 'powerful' into contact running, Parisse is hardly a physically imposing 8.

When I think of that type of rampaging international 8 I can only think of players like Vermuellen & Spies for South Africa, Vunipola & Morgan for England & Picamoles for France.

Heaslip doesn't play that offensive game that Read does, nor does he play like the latter group of players. I would like to see him play more in the Read mould but he's obviously instructed to play the way he does for both Leinster & Ireland.

[leinster4life13]

Sort of agree, but I'd put it down to his style of training rather then a "decline". He may yet do a Soiallo and not get out of his slump and basically be finished as an international 8, but I doubt it, he's way down on power, yes, but that is due to him training for longevity. Explosive athletes get injured, Heaslip doesnt, what is more valuable SOB/Fez style power for a few games or consistency for 50+ games over two years. He has declined, but he is not done, key difference.

Tbh I think Heaslip is getting unfair criticism. I don't see Kieran Read doing much 'powerful' into contact running, Parisse is hardly a physically imposing 8.

When I think of that type of rampaging international 8 I can only think of players like Vermuellen & Spies for South Africa, Vunipola & Morgan for England & Picamoles for France.

Heaslip doesn't play that offensive game that Read does, nor does he play like the latter group of players. I would like to see him play more in the Read mould but he's obviously instructed to play the way he does for both Leinster & Ireland.

Whilst I dont like the way Heaslip plays as an 8, its obviously under instruction or he wouldnt be picked, so the criticism of what he does(sucessfully) is laughable, as if he is doing it off his own bat. However, imo, he is not what a number 8 should be nor is it the best use of resources leaving other forwards with too much ball to carry eg your locks, as opposed to having a bowling ball of an 8 knock people over you have gangly locks trying to get over the gainline with him in support,.
I dont know his exact programming is, but the numerous mentions of longevity, being supple, injury prevention etc and his body shape, obvious lack of explosiveness and power to weight ratio(that Argentina gif being case in point) obviosly is something that has been worked out with the Irish and Leinster S&C team, it may be great for extending his career for a year or two but it doesnt make for a world class physical specimen, he will ever be a top 8 in the world unless you sorts his body and then his game out. I rate him and think he is a quality operator, but like Brian Clough said, I think he could be "winning better".

[ichabodscrane]

Sort of agree, but I'd put it down to his style of training rather then a "decline". He may yet do a Soiallo and not get out of his slump and basically be finished as an international 8, but I doubt it, he's way down on power, yes, but that is due to him training for longevity. Explosive athletes get injured, Heaslip doesnt, what is more valuable SOB/Fez style power for a few games or consistency for 50+ games over two years. He has declined, but he is not done, key difference.

Tbh I think Heaslip is getting unfair criticism. I don't see Kieran Read doing much 'powerful' into contact running, Parisse is hardly a physically imposing 8.

When I think of that type of rampaging international 8 I can only think of players like Vermuellen & Spies for South Africa, Vunipola & Morgan for England & Picamoles for France.

Heaslip doesn't play that offensive game that Read does, nor does he play like the latter group of players. I would like to see him play more in the Read mould but he's obviously instructed to play the way he does for both Leinster & Ireland.

Whilst I dont like the way Heaslip plays as an 8, its obviously under instruction or he wouldnt be picked, so the criticism of what he does(sucessfully) is laughable, as if he is doing it off his own bat. However, imo, he is not what a number 8 should be nor is it the best use of resources leaving other forwards with too much ball to carry eg your locks, as opposed to having a bowling ball of an 8 knock people over you have gangly locks trying to get over the gainline with him in support,.
I dont know his exact programming is, but the numerous mentions of longevity, being supple, injury prevention etc and his body shape, obvious lack of explosiveness and power to weight ratio(that Argentina gif being case in point) obviosly is something that has been worked out with the Irish and Leinster S&C team, it may be great for extending his career for a year or two but it doesnt make for a world class physical specimen, he will ever be a top 8 in the world unless you sorts his body and then his game out. I rate him and think he is a quality operator, but like Brian Clough said, I think he could be "winning better".

I agree, I have made no secret of it that Read is the perfect no 8 both defensively and offensively. He just does the simple things right, he rarely ever makes a bad decision. But I must ask, does some of the blame not go with the lack of a genuine openside in Irish rugby?.

Wales: Tupuric & Warburton ( too very different 7's)

South Africa: had two on the field tonight.

Australia: Pocock and Hooper

All Blacks: Cane & McCaw

France: Nyanga & Dusituor (spelling)

We have no out and out openside, we have two blindside flankers who have been converted to 7's. What I'm trying to say is your three best back row forwards don't necessarily mean balance and excellence. We need to find a balance, is Jordi a 7 or an 8? Is SOB really a long term specialist 7, what happens with Henry etc.

Last week Clive Woodward called for Tuilagi to be played on the wing because 'you need to fit all your best players on the team' but I think it's safe to say there was no balance in the midfield for England this morning.

[Hippo]

How the actual fock is there 4 pages of this thread??

[artaneboy]

How the actual fock is there 4 pages of this thread??

Agree. There was the initial rush to bury the troll. And then there are the usual crew of the glass-half-empty variety, who lament the 'passing of the glory days- circa 2009' , and who cannot wait to feed this utterly crappy theory with fresh 'thoughts'....

[artaneboy]

How the actual fock is there 4 pages of this thread??

Double post- as if this dismal thread wasn't long enough...

[RoboProp]

How the actual fock is there 4 pages of this thread??

Silly season is well and truly going strong

[nelly the elephant]

How the actual fock is there 4 pages of this thread??

This.