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[Logorrhea]

I had the pleasure of watching Ben Smith, Willie LeRoux and to a lesser extend Folau over the weekend. Talk about some seriously impressive fullback play. LeRoux and Smith in particular were awesome.

We like to talk up our own Rob, and I've a lot of time for Mike Browm but these SH fullbacks are playing at a whole different level at the moment.

[JB1973]

le rouxk shredded wales, his angles of running and pace are very impressive.

He is going to be a handful for every one if he carries on like this

[Dave Cahill]

Its all very well and good looking great at half your job but Le Roux was really poor at the other half. Unless he picks it up he'll be shifted out of the 15 jersey, like last season, for the big RC games against the Aussies and All Blacks - they're slightly better than Wales, he won't have the opportunities going forward and will be remorselessly exposed in defense

[offshorerules]

I would always prefer my fullback to be solid defensively first and good in attach second. Girvan Dempsey a very good example of this in my view.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Not sure I've ever seen a player who influences a team as much as Le Roux does with SA. Without him,they're just a very powerful one trick pony, a completely different proposition with him though. He opens up the field and brings players into the game, basically runs the show from fullback, incredible. The way he identifies space and executes perfectly to exploit it is second to none IMO.

We really are blessed with fullbacks at the moment though, would find it impossible to choose one for a world XV.

[Logorrhea]

Its all very well and good looking great at half your job but ..........

Come on. Willie LeRoux literally ripped Wales to shreds on his own on Saturday. Ben Smith turned what was a fairly tight game vs England into a hammering. Both of them played a type of rugby from 15 that NH teams and supporters have not seen in years.

If either of those performances were form an Irish man we'd be screaming about a new BOD or a new Zebo

[Dave Cahill]

Its all very well and good looking great at half your job but ..........

Come on. Willie LeRoux literally ripped Wales to shreds on his own on Saturday. Ben Smith turned what was a fairly tight game vs England into a hammering. Both of them played a type of rugby from 15 that NH teams and supporters have not seen in years.

If either of those performances were form an Irish man we'd be screaming about a new BOD or a new Zebo

He ripped Wales to shreds indeed, he was, if memory serves, responsible for all South Africa's tries, either in terms of creation or finishing.

The problem is that he was responsible for Wales' try as well.


Ben Smith is an entirely different kettle of fish, he's the real deal.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Bizarre interpretation. Cuthbert ran outside Burger, and inside Bismarck when Habana wqs in no mans land. Cuthbert had a serious head of steam up and stepped Le Roux who was covering across. He at least forced Cuthbert back inside which gave Habana and Pietersen a chance to get back at him. I wouldn't say he defended it well but to put the blame at his feet is seriously one eyed to back up a point.

[Dave Cahill]

Bizarre interpretation. Cuthbert ran outside Burger, and inside Bismarck when Habana wqs in no mans land. Cuthbert had a serious head of steam up and stepped Le Roux who was covering across. He at least forced Cuthbert back inside which gave Habana and Pietersen a chance to get back at him. I wouldn't say he defended it well but to put the blame at his feet is seriously one eyed to back up a point.

If it were his only defensive mistake I'd agree, but did he even manage to make a tackle during the match? Hes a very poor defender, its just not possible to say otherwise. It shifted him out of the full back shirt last season against the Aussies and the All Blacks in the RC and I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen again - I'd wager that he'll end up on the wing for all four of those matches. Its one thing to look good going forward against a pretty poor Welsh team - you can excuse the defensive lapses as being offset against the offensive gains - but the latter won't happen against the better sides and former will kill you. He simply isn't a good full back - wing yes, but full back no.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

He's been brilliant in attack against everyone at this stage, bit unfair to say it was a poor Welsh side. What he does in attack is touched by genius, doesn't matter who he's up against or whether he's on the wing or not. Not saying he'll be able to replicate his latest performance against NZ but I wouldn't be dismissive either.

Not sure about him being moved from fullback for being a poor defender either. His positioning is obviously good considering how often he's in the right place to counter attack and I wouldn't be rushing to put a poor defender up against Savea, doesn't make sense. It's not like Zane is a great tackler either is he?

[ceemec]

Its all very well and good looking great at half your job but Le Roux was really poor at the other half. Unless he picks it up he'll be shifted out of the 15 jersey, like last season, for the big RC games against the Aussies and All Blacks - they're slightly better than Wales, he won't have the opportunities going forward and will be remorselessly exposed in defense

Come on, Dave. There isn't a hope that Le Roux will be shifted out of the 15 jersey. He's electric from there in attack and, whatever about his defensive frailties (which I think you're overstating) he's not going anywhere. He's a talent that would be accommodated in any side in the world given his current form.

Meyer just came out and said he's the best 15 in the world. Can't see him being moved.

[Logorrhea]

If it were his only defensive mistake I'd agree, but did he even manage to make a tackle during the match?

I'm not suggesting hes a good defender, but in that one instance, given the number of defensive mistakes that happened in front of him, blaming LeRoux for missing a near impossible tackle is beyond harsh.
http://youtu.be/4N35qOwkPRA?t=3m29s

Its one thing to look good going forward against a pretty poor Welsh team

People still talk about Zebos "x-factor" based on a goosestep and "that Flick" vs a shite Welsh team.
http://youtu.be/046s-F6OiFQ?t=5s

As I said, if it was an Irish player doing that, we'd be creaming ourselves with excitement and planning winning the world cup.

[Dave Cahill]

When the chips are down, Meyer trusts Kirchner, he doesn't trust Le Roux. The same thing happened last season - Le Roux started all the tour games and the games against Argentina at full back, but for the games against Aus and NZ he went with Kirchner at FB and Le Roux on the wing and unless Kirchners lack of gametime this season counts against him, I'd expect Meyer to go the same way again.

[ronk]

If it were his only defensive mistake I'd agree, but did he even manage to make a tackle during the match?

I'm not suggesting hes a good defender, but in that one instance, given the number of defensive mistakes that happened in front of him, blaming LeRoux for missing a near impossible tackle is beyond harsh.
http://youtu.be/4N35qOwkPRA?t=3m29s

Its one thing to look good going forward against a pretty poor Welsh team

People still talk about Zebos "x-factor" based on a goosestep and "that Flick" vs a shite Welsh team.
http://youtu.be/046s-F6OiFQ?t=5s

As I said, if it was an Irish player doing that, we'd be creaming ourselves with excitement and planning winning the world cup.

Aye, and those people would be wrong.

I can excuse Le Roux a little defending because he's new at this level and it might come in time.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

When the chips are down, Meyer trusts Kirchner, he doesn't trust Le Roux. The same thing happened last season - Le Roux started all the tour games and the games against Argentina at full back, but for the games against Aus and NZ he went with Kirchner at FB and Le Roux on the wing and unless Kirchners lack of gametime this season counts against him, I'd expect Meyer to go the same way again.

Or maybe he felt a back three with both Zane and WLR would be better at contesting high balls with Read, Jayne etc? Or that they might need to play more territory? Or that Savea would be attracted to JDV and WLR's footwork would set him away down the wing? Or that WLR's kicking game could turn Savea in tight spots in the same way Jayne does?

Could be a whole heap of things, there's nothing to suggest it was for defence and I still can't figure out why if he's that much of a liability defensively that he'd be kept on the wing.

[blockhead]

When the chips are down, Meyer trusts Kirchner, he doesn't trust Le Roux. The same thing happened last season - Le Roux started all the tour games and the games against Argentina at full back, but for the games against Aus and NZ he went with Kirchner at FB and Le Roux on the wing and unless Kirchners lack of gametime this season counts against him, I'd expect Meyer to go the same way again.

That sounds like the old Girv v Geordan debate of yester year. The wonderful attacking threat of Murphy and the absolute rock that was Dempsey. Please sir, can't we have both?

[nelly the elephant]

I had the pleasure of watching Ben Smith, Willie LeRoux and to a lesser extend Folau over the weekend. Talk about some seriously impressive fullback play. LeRoux and Smith in particular were awesome.

We like to talk up our own Rob, and I've a lot of time for Mike Browm but these SH fullbacks are playing at a whole different level at the moment.

That chase back & tackle on Tuilagi after his break along with subsequent stripping of the ball(did he win the penalty also?)....superb play from a great talent.