Autumn Int. other countries

[kermischocolate]

Thankfully it's "just" a dislocation

Yea but has it been confirmed of what please? "Just" his kneecap or his knee entirely?

[simonokeeffe]

So England are fine as long as they dont play another team that can scrummage

[offshorerules]

So England are fine as long as they dont play another team that can scrummage

You're probably right but I wouldn't fancy our chances against them right now.

[simonokeeffe]

So England are fine as long as they dont play another team that can scrummage

You're probably right but I wouldn't fancy our chances against them right now.

itll be an interesting RWC semi final

with our butchers bill right now we'd be screwed, all hands on deck I'd fancy our chances

[JB1973]

Well at last we got over the line, even if we did our best to blow it.

Biggar played really well and the likes of gethin,lee,awj ball all shone but MOTM for me was Warburton if he can stay fit he is a top class player.

After this current AI series I would say the AB'S are clearly the best side in the world, Ireland second, and the English/aussies/welsh/boks are all capable of beating each other.

Should be a terrific 6 nations ahead of us

[simonokeeffe]

Well at last we got over the line, even if we did our best to blow it.

Biggar played really well and the likes of gethin,lee,awj ball all shone but MOTM for me was Warburton if he can stay fit he is a top class player.

After this current AI series I would say the AB'S are clearly the best side in the world, Ireland second, and the English/aussies/welsh/boks are all capable of beating each other.

Should be a terrific 6 nations ahead of us

Samson Lee looks like the real deal for Wales, Biggar is coming good too and Faletau is back to his best

Is James now first choice ahead of Jenkins? Seems like Jenkins a vastly superior scrummager

[JB1973]

Gethin would always be my pick, he was immense Saturday. Lee is an outstanding young prop will have a big future for Wales.

If we can keep our first team fit well go close in the 6 nations, the opening game vs England is vital win that and who knows?

[offshorerules]

Gethin would always be my pick, he was immense Saturday. Lee is an outstanding young prop will have a big future for Wales.

If we can keep our first team fit well go close in the 6 nations, the opening game vs England is vital win that and who knows?

I don't think Wales have the pack to beat England or Ireland this year. But until you get a half decent out half you'll struggle. All that said though home advantage against us and the added motivation of playing England might carry you through.

[offshorerules]

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,2588 ... 23,00.html

Planet Rugby's team of the AI's 6 Irish in it. O'Connell, O'Mahony, Sexton, Bowe, Kearney and McGrath.

[simonokeeffe]

Guscotts for BBC, with some added PCness

[JB1973]

Gethin would always be my pick, he was immense Saturday. Lee is an outstanding young prop will have a big future for Wales.

If we can keep our first team fit well go close in the 6 nations, the opening game vs England is vital win that and who knows?

I don't think Wales have the pack to beat England or Ireland this year. But until you get a half decent out half you'll struggle. All that said though home advantage against us and the added motivation of playing England might carry you through.

Your right the England game is key for us, a pack of gethin hibbard lee ball ,awj, lydiate warburton and toby f is decent enough and should be able to stand up to anyone. It's the bench that is the big worry for me , we need ken owens and Baker to come back to fitness to at least give us some impact in the last 20.

On current form it's impossible to look past Ireland but if any of POC Heaslip Murray or sexton get injured it's a big drop to the next player in that position.

England will be what they always are big strong and direct, with a solid set piece and good defence, will that be enough to win 2 games vs Ireland and wales away from home?

[offshorerules]

Could depend on the weather here like 2 years ago. Obviously you can close the roof to mitigate that factor but if it's wet then the advantage goes to their bulk. It on odd thing for Irish rugby. Used to be the case we revelled in the wet, not anymore.

[simonokeeffe]

Gethin would always be my pick, he was immense Saturday. Lee is an outstanding young prop will have a big future for Wales.

If we can keep our first team fit well go close in the 6 nations, the opening game vs England is vital win that and who knows?

I don't think Wales have the pack to beat England or Ireland this year. But until you get a half decent out half you'll struggle. All that said though home advantage against us and the added motivation of playing England might carry you through.

Your right the England game is key for us, a pack of gethin hibbard lee ball ,awj, lydiate warburton and toby f is decent enough and should be able to stand up to anyone. It's the bench that is the big worry for me , we need ken owens and Baker to come back to fitness to at least give us some impact in the last 20.

On current form it's impossible to look past Ireland but if any of POC Heaslip Murray or sexton get injured it's a big drop to the next player in that position.

England will be what they always are big strong and direct, with a solid set piece and good defence, will that be enough to win 2 games vs Ireland and wales away from home?

If anything befalls POC or Heaslip its a cataclysmic drop
Sexton or Murray we have to start running the ball again

[Beckenham Wasp]

I'd say the Farrell family Christmas dinner table will be a quiet one if Ford has a good game this weekend.

England's RWC hopes really are goosed if they're relying on the likes of Farrell and Ford at 10. Both have major flaws in their game, primarily as a result of their League backgrounds.

I think the Aussies will beat them by more than two clear scores tmr.

Granted Farrell Jnr is sh*te, and always has been, but how is George Ford "majorly flawed"? The only real weakness in his game is his lack of physicality but that is pretty much mitigated by his physical courage and decent passive defence. He might not hit like a back rower but he invariably goes low and hangs on to anyone who tries to run over him. His goal kicking might not be of the top international quality but it is 70% plus and good enough. The rest of his game; decision making, vision, tactical kicking, running and passing is very, very good.

Also it should be pointed out that Ford Jnr just like Dad doesn't come from a pure Rugby League background. Back when Rugby Union was amateur before 1995 there were really two types of Rugby League player. First those that were died in the wool and full on Rugby League enthusiasts you hated Rugby Union and everything it stood for and only ever played League. Second, players who grew up playing both codes before choosing League at the age of 18 because they wanted to make a professional career out of playing and coaching Rugby with League being the only option. Lots of Rugby League coaches in Union, and interestingly those that have had the most success, have come from mixed code backgrounds. Phil Larder, Shaun Edwards and Mike Ford all played Rugby Union as well as League growing up before being choosing League when they wanted to turn professional and make a living out of the game. They then switched to Union once it turned pro. It was a very similar situation to Australia where lots of players grow up playing both codes interchangeably.

George Ford's Rugby League background has no negative impact on the way he plays because he doesn't really play like a Rugby League half back at all. His tactical decision making and tactical kicking is very good, he doesn't run up blind alleys and get isolated and he doesn't get his kicks charged down by punting the ball with too low a trajectory. All problems that the likes of Matt Rogers, Iestyn Harris, Henry Paul and Kyle Eastmond have suffered from when they tried to convert to Union. Ford is pretty much a Rugby Union player through and through.

PS. It should be noted that Andy Farrell does not come from such a dual code background and exclusively played Rugby League until his late 20s. Since then his only Union playing and coaching experience was the anti Rugby dross that Saracens serve up. That lack of a Union background is one of main reasons why Andy Farrell was a rubbish Rugby Union player and is a pretty awful Rugby Union coach. Saracens style of play has actually improved since he left and England and the Lions have really suffered under his influence. If people want to pinpoint the reasons for England's continued under performance I would point to Andy Farrell's influence as one of the main, if not the main, factor.

[offshorerules]

Wouldn't disagree with you on Farrell Snr. I've always had a feeling he's a bluffer. But I've also always had the feeling that failing to find a good inside centre has been England's biggest let down over the last 5-6 years. That and a very intelligent 7. Robshaw is a good player/leader and all that but he has no cop on if you ask me.

[Beckenham Wasp]

Yes. Farrell Snr is a massive bluffer and unlike Larder, Edwards and Mike Ford doesn't really have much to offer in Union terms. Either as a player or a coach. Unlike Larder, Edwards and Ford he was a Rugby League forward and not a three quarter or a half back and together with his lack of Union experience he doesn't strike you as a thinker about the game. Just an over confident meat head who spent most of his career running through brick walls, tackling the opposition and shouting at his team mates.

I think people under estimate just how different Union and League are as sports. When you strip it all back 75% of Rugby Union really revolves around winning possession of the ball and getting the ball over the gain line as efficiently as possible. If you can't get over the gain line retaining possession is a waste of time. In League a teams gets given the ball, the gain line and 10 metres of space every phase of play. Some of the basic skills might be the same but the tactics and game play is completely and utterly different.

The fear that many England rugby supporters have is that Farrell dominates Lancaster to an unhealthy degree . Lancaster might have lots of admirable qualities and he has done a lot of things right but he lacks an illustrious record as a player and he lacks executive coaching experience. It wouldn't be surprising if Farrell was over mighty and domineering. At least in terms of the selection and coaching of the backs because Graham Rowntree wouldn't accept any nonsense.

Centre play is a problem for all teams in the modern game. Over the last 20 years the roles of the centres and the environment they have to play in has completely changed. Gone are the days when centres had the time and the space to be game breaking players in their own right unless they are truly exceptional. England's problem has been that rather than finding a functional midfield structure and functional players that can perform the basics of getting over the gain line, putting the back 3 into space and organising the defence they have tried to fruitlessly search for "magic players" who will some how completely transform the English back line. Usually some poor Rugby League convert who doesn't know one end of a Union ball from the other. The results of that approach have been unimpressive and in many cases embarrassing.

Until England figure what mid field structure they want and what functions they want their centres to fulfil and then cut their cloth accordingly their back play will remain a disjointed mess.

[offshorerules]

Yes. Farrell Snr is a massive bluffer and unlike Larder, Edwards and Mike Ford doesn't really have much to offer in Union terms. Either as a player or a coach. Unlike Larder, Edwards and Ford he was a Rugby League forward and not a three quarter or a half back and together with his lack of Union experience he doesn't strike you as a thinker about the game. Just an over confident meat head who spent most of his career running through brick walls, tackling the opposition and shouting at his team mates.

I think people under estimate just how different Union and League are as sports. When you strip it all back 75% of Rugby Union really revolves around winning possession of the ball and getting the ball over the gain line as efficiently as possible. If you can't get over the gain line retaining possession is a waste of time. In League a teams gets given the ball, the gain line and 10 metres of space every phase of play. Some of the basic skills might be the same but the tactics and game play is completely and utterly different.

The fear that many England rugby supporters have is that Farrell dominates Lancaster to an unhealthy degree . Lancaster might have lots of admirable qualities and he has done a lot of things right but he lacks an illustrious record as a player and he lacks executive coaching experience. It wouldn't be surprising if Farrell was over mighty and domineering. At least in terms of the selection and coaching of the backs because Graham Rowntree wouldn't accept any nonsense.

Centre play is a problem for all teams in the modern game. Over the last 20 years the roles of the centres and the environment they have to play in has completely changed. Gone are the days when centres had the time and the space to be game breaking players in their own right unless they are truly exceptional. England's problem has been that rather than finding a functional midfield structure and functional players that can perform the basics of getting over the gain line, putting the back 3 into space and organising the defence they have tried to fruitlessly search for "magic players" who will some how completely transform the English back line. Usually some poor Rugby League convert who doesn't know one end of a Union ball from the other. The results of that approach have been unimpressive and in many cases embarrassing.

Until England figure what mid field structure they want and what functions they want their centres to fulfil and then cut their cloth accordingly their back play will remain a disjointed mess.

To be fair given the absolute shambles English rugby was in while that cretin Johnson was in charge, Lancaster has to be given some credit though.

[Beckenham Wasp]

Yes. Farrell Snr is a massive bluffer and unlike Larder, Edwards and Mike Ford doesn't really have much to offer in Union terms. Either as a player or a coach. Unlike Larder, Edwards and Ford he was a Rugby League forward and not a three quarter or a half back and together with his lack of Union experience he doesn't strike you as a thinker about the game. Just an over confident meat head who spent most of his career running through brick walls, tackling the opposition and shouting at his team mates.

I think people under estimate just how different Union and League are as sports. When you strip it all back 75% of Rugby Union really revolves around winning possession of the ball and getting the ball over the gain line as efficiently as possible. If you can't get over the gain line retaining possession is a waste of time. In League a teams gets given the ball, the gain line and 10 metres of space every phase of play. Some of the basic skills might be the same but the tactics and game play is completely and utterly different.

The fear that many England rugby supporters have is that Farrell dominates Lancaster to an unhealthy degree . Lancaster might have lots of admirable qualities and he has done a lot of things right but he lacks an illustrious record as a player and he lacks executive coaching experience. It wouldn't be surprising if Farrell was over mighty and domineering. At least in terms of the selection and coaching of the backs because Graham Rowntree wouldn't accept any nonsense.

Centre play is a problem for all teams in the modern game. Over the last 20 years the roles of the centres and the environment they have to play in has completely changed. Gone are the days when centres had the time and the space to be game breaking players in their own right unless they are truly exceptional. England's problem has been that rather than finding a functional midfield structure and functional players that can perform the basics of getting over the gain line, putting the back 3 into space and organising the defence they have tried to fruitlessly search for "magic players" who will some how completely transform the English back line. Usually some poor Rugby League convert who doesn't know one end of a Union ball from the other. The results of that approach have been unimpressive and in many cases embarrassing.

Until England figure what mid field structure they want and what functions they want their centres to fulfil and then cut their cloth accordingly their back play will remain a disjointed mess.

To be fair given the absolute shambles English rugby was in while that cretin Johnson was in charge, Lancaster has to be given some credit though.

I wouldn't go as far as calling Martin Johnson a cretin. He was completely unqualified and unfit for the job and should never have taken it but personally attacking him is very harsh. The man most to blame for the Martin Johnson debacle was the man who appointed Johnson against all the professional advice he was given. The former RFU Chairman Martyn Thomas. Thomas has been the most destructive and negative force in English rugby since the advent of professionalism and was at the root of virtually everything wrong with English rugby at the elite level in the last 10 years. Stoking the club v country issue and causing all manner of mayhem within HQ.

Lancaster has done some good things but he has also really struggled in other areas. His has brought through a lot of young players and is fair minded and good man manager however he is tactically naive and rigid and he has failed to find a structure or a consistent style of play that suits England's playing resources. Also he has allowed Farrell far too much influence over areas of the game he has no expertise in.

Lancaster has done a reasonable job since he has been appointed but unless the quality of England's performances markedly improve I would replace him with Jim Mallinder and his Northampton coaching setup after 2015. Why they signed Lancaster up on such a long term contract is beyond me.

[Oldschool]

If anything befalls POC or Heaslip its a cataclysmic drop
Sexton or Murray we have to start running the ball again

I think you are overstating the importance of the four players above.
If POC AND Heaslip were both injured then we have a problem but we can handle the loss of one of them - Henderson for POC wouldn't be a disaster.
And SOB for Heaslip wouldn't be a disaster either. Obviously this assumes the two replacements are fit.
Madigan for Sexton would be ok too.
Murray of the four is the least easy to replace it has to be said. Given that both Reddan and Boss are on the wane we need two other SHs to put up their hands.
The most likely candidates are Marshall and Marmion because I don't think Joe does bolters but, needs must, you never know.

[Oldschool]

I'd say the Farrell family Christmas dinner table will be a quiet one if Ford has a good game this weekend.

England's RWC hopes really are goosed if they're relying on the likes of Farrell and Ford at 10. Both have major flaws in their game, primarily as a result of their League backgrounds.

I think the Aussies will beat them by more than two clear scores tmr.

Granted Farrell Jnr is sh*te, and always has been, but how is George Ford "majorly flawed"? The only real weakness in his game is his lack of physicality but that is pretty much mitigated by his physical courage and decent passive defence. He might not hit like a back rower but he invariably goes low and hangs on to anyone who tries to run over him. His goal kicking might not be of the top international quality but it is 70% plus and good enough. The rest of his game; decision making, vision, tactical kicking, running and passing is very, very good.

Also it should be pointed out that Ford Jnr just like Dad doesn't come from a pure Rugby League background. Back when Rugby Union was amateur before 1995 there were really two types of Rugby League player. First those that were died in the wool and full on Rugby League enthusiasts you hated Rugby Union and everything it stood for and only ever played League. Second, players who grew up playing both codes before choosing League at the age of 18 because they wanted to make a professional career out of playing and coaching Rugby with League being the only option. Lots of Rugby League coaches in Union, and interestingly those that have had the most success, have come from mixed code backgrounds. Phil Larder, Shaun Edwards and Mike Ford all played Rugby Union as well as League growing up before being choosing League when they wanted to turn professional and make a living out of the game. They then switched to Union once it turned pro. It was a very similar situation to Australia where lots of players grow up playing both codes interchangeably.

George Ford's Rugby League background has no negative impact on the way he plays because he doesn't really play like a Rugby League half back at all. His tactical decision making and tactical kicking is very good, he doesn't run up blind alleys and get isolated and he doesn't get his kicks charged down by punting the ball with too low a trajectory. All problems that the likes of Matt Rogers, Iestyn Harris, Henry Paul and Kyle Eastmond have suffered from when they tried to convert to Union. Ford is pretty much a Rugby Union player through and through.

PS. It should be noted that Andy Farrell does not come from such a dual code background and exclusively played Rugby League until his late 20s. Since then his only Union playing and coaching experience was the anti Rugby dross that Saracens serve up. That lack of a Union background is one of main reasons why Andy Farrell was a rubbish Rugby Union player and is a pretty awful Rugby Union coach. Saracens style of play has actually improved since he left and England and the Lions have really suffered under his influence. If people want to pinpoint the reasons for England's continued under performance I would point to Andy Farrell's influence as one of the main, if not the main, factor.

Why didn't you just say that without a doubt George Ford is a far better prospect than Farrell jnr.
Nobody would have doubted it!