Autumn Int. other countries

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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby cormac » November 26th, 2014, 10:27 am

hugonaut wrote:What are people's thoughts on the mini-controversy surrounding Sonja McLauchlan's questioning of Gatland's record?

He loses sh*tloads of friendlies [one win against SANZAR teams in 27 attempts, or whatever it is], but does well in competitions [three Six Nations championships, semi-final of a World Cup]. Is it a big deal?


Even in finishing 4th at the World Cup Wales only beat two decentish teams (ourselves and Samoa) and stil lost to both South Africa and Australia (and France). They were in a similar situation to the one they find themselves in now at this stage of the last RWC cycle. They were able to arrest that by bringing in some new blood like North, Warburton, Faletau and Priestland before RWC 2011 which gave them some impetus. Cuthbert and Tipuric followed shortly after. It's hard to see where that kind of talent is going to come from this time. Gatland has been there for seven years now and some fresh voices might be needed as they still have a pretty decent squad, albeit one that's a bit light on power in the pack.

I also think there's a soft culture in Welsh rugby at the moment, particularly at the regions. Part of that is due to the lack of money so that they can't hold on to their best indigenous talent or attract top-class NWQ's to drive the standards. They've also tended to promote home-grown coaches (possibly due to lack of money) and I can't help but feel that's not helped them either.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby johng » November 26th, 2014, 10:42 am

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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby Donny B. » November 26th, 2014, 11:15 am

hugonaut wrote:What are people's thoughts on the mini-controversy surrounding Sonja McLauchlan's questioning of Gatland's record?

He loses sh*tloads of friendlies [one win against SANZAR teams in 27 attempts, or whatever it is], but does well in competitions [three Six Nations championships, semi-final of a World Cup]. Is it a big deal?


Eh, two? Howley was coach for 2013 wasn't he?
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby simonokeeffe » November 26th, 2014, 12:49 pm

it seems they are under pressure if theyre blowing a gasket over being asked about being under pressure

not like she rocked up to him after the match and asked him where did he get it all wrong

SH record speaks for itself and if Wales are losing 3/4 AIs every year then that does put pressure on finances with dwindling sales, peeed off regions etc
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby JB1973 » November 26th, 2014, 1:05 pm

cormac wrote:
hugonaut wrote:What are people's thoughts on the mini-controversy surrounding Sonja McLauchlan's questioning of Gatland's record?

He loses sh*tloads of friendlies [one win against SANZAR teams in 27 attempts, or whatever it is], but does well in competitions [three Six Nations championships, semi-final of a World Cup]. Is it a big deal?


Even in finishing 4th at the World Cup Wales only beat two decentish teams (ourselves and Samoa) and stil lost to both South Africa and Australia (and France). They were in a similar situation to the one they find themselves in now at this stage of the last RWC cycle. They were able to arrest that by bringing in some new blood like North, Warburton, Faletau and Priestland before RWC 2011 which gave them some impetus. Cuthbert and Tipuric followed shortly after. It's hard to see where that kind of talent is going to come from this time. Gatland has been there for seven years now and some fresh voices might be needed as they still have a pretty decent squad, albeit one that's a bit light on power in the pack.

I also think there's a soft culture in Welsh rugby at the moment, particularly at the regions. Part of that is due to the lack of money so that they can't hold on to their best indigenous talent or attract top-class NWQ's to drive the standards. They've also tended to promote home-grown coaches (possibly due to lack of money) and I can't help but feel that's not helped them either.



to be fair we lost to the boks by 1 point and a good goal kick was not given, we lost to france by a point after having played 70 minutes with 14 men in that world cup.

I agree we haven't kicked on but in Lee we have found a very good tight head for the future, Anscombe could well give us a different option at 10 and Eli Walker and Baker are both on the verge of doing good things in the test jersey imo.


We clearly have issues in tight games and I think that does come down to a lack of a winning mentality, the AB;S have it. And in fairness Ireland have certainly developed it over the last 12 months, playing in Provincial teams that win on a regular basis certainly helps.

Can you imagine a welsh regional team making a come back like Munster vs Sale or winning out in france while playing below average like you guys did vs Castres .


They other issue we have is a lack of depth, a few injuries and we struggle ,especially from the bench.


I would be bold in the 6 nations , go for a 6/2 split on the bench and have anscombe to cover the backs and have both Baker and Tupric on the bench.

We have our two hardest games at home so if we can win those who knows what happens?

Looking at it with unbiased eyes I would say Wales are the 3rd best team in Europe and the 7th best side in the world right now, not sure if that will change in the next 12 months if I'm honest , so world cup wise I can see a group stage exit :cry:


As for the coaches I rate both Gatland and Edwards highly, and I think we have played better rugby to watch this AI series. They have a track record of success and they seem to have the respect of the players, it would be madness to ditch either this close to the world cup.

With the players we have and the regional set up we have, could we really expect any better from them?
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby JB1973 » November 26th, 2014, 1:56 pm

South Africa: Willie le Roux; Cornal Hendricks, Jan Serfontein, Jean de Villiers (capt), Lwazi Mvovo; Pat Lambie, Cobus Reinach; Tendai Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Coenie Oosthuizen; Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield; Marcell Coetzee, Teboho Mohoje, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Adriaan Strauss, Trevor Nyakane, Julian Redelinghuys, Lood de Jager, Nizaam Carr, Francois Hougaard, Handré Pollard, Damian de Allende
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby cormac » November 26th, 2014, 1:59 pm

You're correct about the defeats to South Africa and France (didn't mean original comment to sound as dismissive as it looks - I'd kill to see Ireland reach semi-final in similar circumstances), although the game against the Boks followed Wales' recent pattern of failing to win a game that was there for the taking. That's happened plenty of times to the other 6N teams against the SH trio too but Wales appear to have turned it into an art form of late.

Gatland and Edwards are fine coaches with an enviable record but even the best ones reach a point where their message becomes stale, players get sick of hearing the same things or the game moves on and they fail to realise that. Just look at what happened to Ireland as Declan Kidney's reign spluttered to an ignominious end.

If I were Welsh my biggest concern would be connected to the fact that Gatland feels the need to "beast" the players when they turn up at Camp Wales. Shouldn't they be already at the requisite fitness levels with their regions? Robin Copeland's comments about the attitude difference to training between Cardiff and Munster look to have been endorsed by Mark Hammet too. Do you think this is indicative of standards across the regions in Wales or just another indicator of Cardiff's long slide towards mediocrity?
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby JB1973 » November 26th, 2014, 2:13 pm

cormac wrote:You're correct about the defeats to South Africa and France (didn't mean original comment to sound as dismissive as it looks - I'd kill to see Ireland reach semi-final in similar circumstances), although the game against the Boks followed Wales' recent pattern of failing to win a game that was there for the taking. That's happened plenty of times to the other 6N teams against the SH trio too but Wales appear to have turned it into an art form of late.

Gatland and Edwards are fine coaches with an enviable record but even the best ones reach a point where their message becomes stale, players get sick of hearing the same things or the game moves on and they fail to realise that. Just look at what happened to Ireland as Declan Kidney's reign spluttered to an ignominious end.

If I were Welsh my biggest concern would be connected to the fact that Gatland feels the need to "beast" the players when they turn up at Camp Wales. Shouldn't they be already at the requisite fitness levels with their regions? Robin Copeland's comments about the attitude difference to training between Cardiff and Munster look to have been endorsed by Mark Hammet too. Do you think this is indicative of standards across the regions in Wales or just another indicator of Cardiff's long slide towards mediocrity?



A bit of both, I do question the fitness and desire at the blues and the dragons especially look at last week the drags had 1 player with Wales and lost by nearly 40 points at home to Munster who were missing all their irish players, that cannot be acceptable.

I do think Gatland is bit too preoccupied with fitness and strength rather than tactical plans and skill sets in fairness, maybe a new attack coach is the answer?.

On the whole though I still think a lot of the recent losses especially to the tri nations sides are due to a lack of correct decision making at key times of the games, I do point the finger of blame squarely at the players for this.

Liam Williams foul tackle vs the boks, priestand kicking the ball away twice vs the aussies in the last minute, hibbard giving away a pen in the last min vs the aussies the list is endless

I genuinely think if we had say sexton playing for us for the last 3 years we would have beaten the aussies at least 3 times and the boks twice and Gatland would be lauded as the best coach in welsh history.

ps don't aim for the semis in 2015 you can win the whole thing with your team under your coach
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby simonokeeffe » November 26th, 2014, 3:44 pm

JB1973 wrote:
cormac wrote:You're correct about the defeats to South Africa and France (didn't mean original comment to sound as dismissive as it looks - I'd kill to see Ireland reach semi-final in similar circumstances), although the game against the Boks followed Wales' recent pattern of failing to win a game that was there for the taking. That's happened plenty of times to the other 6N teams against the SH trio too but Wales appear to have turned it into an art form of late.

Gatland and Edwards are fine coaches with an enviable record but even the best ones reach a point where their message becomes stale, players get sick of hearing the same things or the game moves on and they fail to realise that. Just look at what happened to Ireland as Declan Kidney's reign spluttered to an ignominious end.

If I were Welsh my biggest concern would be connected to the fact that Gatland feels the need to "beast" the players when they turn up at Camp Wales. Shouldn't they be already at the requisite fitness levels with their regions? Robin Copeland's comments about the attitude difference to training between Cardiff and Munster look to have been endorsed by Mark Hammet too. Do you think this is indicative of standards across the regions in Wales or just another indicator of Cardiff's long slide towards mediocrity?



A bit of both, I do question the fitness and desire at the blues and the dragons especially look at last week the drags had 1 player with Wales and lost by nearly 40 points at home to Munster who were missing all their irish players, that cannot be acceptable.

I do think Gatland is bit too preoccupied with fitness and strength rather than tactical plans and skill sets in fairness, maybe a new attack coach is the answer?.

On the whole though I still think a lot of the recent losses especially to the tri nations sides are due to a lack of correct decision making at key times of the games, I do point the finger of blame squarely at the players for this.

Liam Williams foul tackle vs the boks, priestand kicking the ball away twice vs the aussies in the last minute, hibbard giving away a pen in the last min vs the aussies the list is endless

I genuinely think if we had say sexton playing for us for the last 3 years we would have beaten the aussies at least 3 times and the boks twice and Gatland would be lauded as the best coach in welsh history.

ps don't aim for the semis in 2015 you can win the whole thing with your team under your coach


you had that, I believe it was called the Lions 3rd test
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby JB1973 » November 27th, 2014, 11:32 am

when I was growing up we had a host of decent to top class 9 and 10's but no pack to win any ball, over the last few years we have had a strong enough pack but rubbish half backs, typical!!.

wales team for the weekend

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Unattached), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, Capt), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), James King (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets).
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby offshorerules » November 27th, 2014, 5:20 pm

I'd say the Farrell family Christmas dinner table will be a quiet one if Ford has a good game this weekend.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby The Anathemata » November 28th, 2014, 12:16 pm

offshorerules wrote:I'd say the Farrell family Christmas dinner table will be a quiet one if Ford has a good game this weekend.


England's RWC hopes really are goosed if they're relying on the likes of Farrell and Ford at 10. Both have major flaws in their game, primarily as a result of their League backgrounds.

I think the Aussies will beat them by more than two clear scores tmr.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby johng » November 28th, 2014, 12:22 pm

Don't say that. Then the Aussies will be back to 3rd in the rankings. Winning by just less than 2 clear scores would be fine thanks.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby fourthirtythree » November 28th, 2014, 1:46 pm

johng wrote:Don't say that. Then the Aussies will be back to 3rd in the rankings. Winning by just less than 2 clear scores would be fine thanks.


Definitely preferable. But I'll take an Aussie win anyway!
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby Lar » November 28th, 2014, 7:16 pm

I genuinely hope the Aussies stuff England tomorrow. Whether it is by less or more than 15 points should not be our concern. We will have beaten two SH sides that went on to beat England the following week if that happens and that can only be a good outcome in my book. England losing five in a row was a silly stat when four of the five were against the ABs and three of them had been played played in NZ. England P4 W1 L3 in the autumn internationals at Twickenham with the only win coming against Samoa is a far more worrying stat if you are an English Rugby fan.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby johng » November 28th, 2014, 8:15 pm

Lar wrote:I genuinely hope the Aussies stuff England tomorrow. Whether it is by less or more than 15 points should not be our concern.

Ah here! It can be" not your concern" that's no problem. The me part of "our" and probably many others are concerned. The team probably don't give a shoite, but I reserve the right to.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby leinster4life13 » November 29th, 2014, 6:43 pm

Oof, JdV wont make the world cup, time to rehab and chase Yen methinks.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby Amz » November 29th, 2014, 9:32 pm

Oooh jaysus! I'd heard it was bad, wasn't expecting that.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby fourthirtythree » November 29th, 2014, 9:46 pm

Jayzuz. Best of luck to him. That is hard to look at.
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Re: Autumn Int. other countries

Postby Peg Leg » November 29th, 2014, 10:31 pm

Thankfully it's "just" a dislocation
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