Ireland v Australia thread

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Just read that we only gave away five penalties...wow.

[ichabodscrane]

I was confused at Joe's reluctance to use our two replacement props in the latter stages of the game. I know we won and McGrath & Ross should be applauded for their endurance but I can't help but wonder if it was a case of Joe not trusting them in such a high pressures match. Oz used every replacement, I can understand given their volume of matches over the last couple of months but we left three players on ours.

Ah You is a fourth-choice prop at this level with very little gametime at test level behind him [like fourth-choice tightheads in every country]. Peter O'Reilly made much the same comment in the Sunday Times today – about Mike Ross being irreplaceable – and while I agree that he's undervalued, I think that we would have seen the gametime at tighthead shared around a good bit more were our second and third choice tightheads available. I don't see how people can overlook that context.

It's like if we had Conor Murray available, but Eoin Reddan and Keiran Marmion were both injured – would anybody be calling for Isaac Boss to be getting loads of time off the bench? I know I wouldn't [and I love Bossy].

With that said, I was a little surprised that Kilcoyne didn't get a look in during the last ten minutes. I thought he went well against Georgia and might have added some fresh legs, but in fairness to Jack McGrath, his work-rate was very good all the way through to the final whistle.

I totally agree with you on the topic of Ah You, things would have been a lot different if we had Moore & White available. But yeah Kilcoyne must be wondering what he has to do. He won't stand a chance of getting many caps if both McGrath & Healy are fit in 2015.

[berniemac67]

can somebody explain "deliberate knock on" to me?

folau essentially tipped the ball clear of zebo, who would almost certainly have scored a try if he hadn't. folau hit the ball deliberately, he used one hand, and he hit it forward with an infintiessimally low likelihood of gathering it. if this wasn't a deliberate knock on then i am confused. maybe they just don't enforce this down south.

ps. foley did similar on another occasion to stifle an irish attack. why aren't these guys going to the bin?

[outcast eddie]

All joking aside, that pain is as close to the max that the body can create. Get well soon boss!

Try passing a kidney stone through your urethra!

How about watching Leinster perform like amateurs and screw up this season at Stadio Monigo tonight, that's pain.

[ichabodscrane]

All joking aside, that pain is as close to the max that the body can create. Get well soon boss!

Try passing a kidney stone through your urethra!

How about watching Leinster perform like amateurs and screw up this season at Stadio Monigo tonight, that's pain.

Brilliant! Ha ha..

[locho]

can somebody explain "deliberate knock on" to me?

folau essentially tipped the ball clear of zebo, who would almost certainly have scored a try if he hadn't. folau hit the ball deliberately, he used one hand, and he hit it forward with an infintiessimally low likelihood of gathering it. if this wasn't a deliberate knock on then i am confused. maybe they just don't enforce this down south.

ps. foley did similar on another occasion to stifle an irish attack. why aren't these guys going to the bin?

I thought the same watching both instances at the match, I couldn't understand how neither were classed as at least a penalty, with folau's a blatant stopping a try being scored!

I thought Jackson had a bad game overall, the forward pass for foley'so try being the worst call!

[theghost]

Would kearneys drop goal have stood if it went over ? Ball never touched the ground ! It was some punt though

[berniemac67]

Would kearneys drop goal have stood if it went over ? Ball never touched the ground ! It was some punt though

that's just nit-picking!

[fourthirtythree]

I read that Sexton kicked the leather off the ball and it was our only tactic.
KPR 16/24/7
Foley 14/14/9

I have also read that our scrum was destroyed 4 - 1 on own ball, Oz 2-2.

All the players who did really good things did noticeably bad things also Sexton kicked three poor balls in a row but was at the centre of all that we did well with the ball and did his typical big defensive shift also. Kearney was a threat and did a big try Saving hit but fluffed two trackles poorly. Zebo was particularly good and bad, I've seen blame online for Kearney passing the ball to him but non Irish sources describe it as dropping a routine pass. He tackled brilliantly and worked his socks off again and scored. Best was his usual abrasive self and that turnover he got was wonderful but his throwing was poor and the scrum improved when he came off.

Thought Heaslip had a pretty subdued and not massively effective showing. Thought Darcy was better than most pundits had him, made hard yards quite a few times.

Quite a lot of late hits going in yesterday. Oz were really up for it.

[Dave Cahill]

I read that Sexton kicked the leather off the ball and it was our only tactic.
KPR 16/24/7
Foley 14/14/9

I have also read that our scrum was destroyed 4 - 1 on own ball, Oz 2-2.

All the players who did really good things did noticeably bad things also Sexton kicked three poor balls in a row but was at the centre of all that we did well with the ball and did his typical big defensive shift also. Kearney was a threat and did a big try Saving hit but fluffed two trackles poorly. Zebo was particularly good and bad, I've seen blame online for Kearney passing the ball to him but non Irish sources describe it as dropping a routine pass. He tackled brilliantly and worked his socks off again and scored. Best was his usual abrasive self and that turnover he got was wonderful but his throwing was poor and the scrum improved when he came off.

Thought Heaslip had a pretty subdued and not massively effective showing. Thought Darcy was better than most pundits had him, made hard yards quite a few times.

Quite a lot of late hits going in yesterday. Oz were really up for it.

The Lineout stats are the worrying ones - on a rule of thumb basis there are twice as many lineouts as scrums in a match and if you're losing a third of them and the ones you are winning are messy, thats a lot of really good ball gone byebye.

[Oldschool]

I know this is going to go down like a lead balloon in some quarters but POC's line out management was very poor.
OZ needed to be beaten up instead of outplayed and one of the ways to do this is to call a low risk 2 or 4 ball and maul.
Given both Best and Cronin well known (to the fans at least) lack of accuracy with the throw this tactic was crying out to be used.
We went long and lost both the ball and momentum on a number of occasions.
POC took the blame against SA for the lineout and everyone said he was showing leadership and wasn't he great, well maybe just maybe he was telling it as it was.
TBH I don't think the captain should be running the lineout or leading the pack (or both) he should be looking at the bigger picture.

I think in all other aspects of his game he deservedly got MOM.

[fourthirtythree]

You can't (or at least I can't) see the trajectory of the ball really well on the telly - it's much easier if you are reasonably close up in the flesh to work out what went wrong, you need two or three angles to have a go on the telly - but given that Best was throwing crooked low risk was where it was at.

But our lineout is now a problem. One of the things to work on in the six nations. If you are going to be kicking a lot you really want to have a good lineout.

[blockhead]

There's no doubt from where I was sitting that the Aussie's had our line out and maul sussed. Our Line out has been poor for both big games this Autumn which is a worry since its usually been our most potent weapon. Its always the hooker that gets the rap but I'm not so sure. Teams facing us know that they must target our line out to prevent us scoring and have obviously put a lot of focus on that. On a positive note, its something to refocus on and improve over the next few months. The scrum has alway been our weakness, parity has been as good as we can usually achieve. If we get back to a point where we can replace an entire front row with another at about 50 mins then the props can intensify their effort for the time that they are on the pitch.

[HenryFitz]

I read that Sexton kicked the leather off the ball and it was our only tactic.
KPR 16/24/7
Foley 14/14/9

I have also read that our scrum was destroyed 4 - 1 on own ball, Oz 2-2.

All the players who did really good things did noticeably bad things also Sexton kicked three poor balls in a row but was at the centre of all that we did well with the ball and did his typical big defensive shift also. Kearney was a threat and did a big try Saving hit but fluffed two trackles poorly. Zebo was particularly good and bad, I've seen blame online for Kearney passing the ball to him but non Irish sources describe it as dropping a routine pass. He tackled brilliantly and worked his socks off again and scored. Best was his usual abrasive self and that turnover he got was wonderful but his throwing was poor and the scrum improved when he came off.

Thought Heaslip had a pretty subdued and not massively effective showing. Thought Darcy was better than most pundits had him, made hard yards quite a few times.

Quite a lot of late hits going in yesterday. Oz were really up for it.

Did you happen to notice that Toomua played a lot of the game at first-receiver, that Phipps didn't kick the ball, and that Ireland managed to put in 34 kicks during the course of the match? This is all evident on the same stats page. Or how about that the forwards made 23m from 42 carries and the centres got 31m, giving a total of 54m from the ball-carrying units of the team. The rest may be arguable, but it's uncontestable that Ireland kicked the leather off it because they couldn't make any headway otherwise.

[All Blacks nil]

You can't (or at least I can't) see the trajectory of the ball really well on the telly - it's much easier if you are reasonably close up in the flesh to work out what went wrong, you need two or three angles to have a go on the telly - but given that Best was throwing crooked low risk was where it was at.

But our lineout is now a problem. One of the things to work on in the six nations. If you are going to be kicking a lot you really want to have a good lineout THROWER

It's not rocket science.
A better lineout thrower gives you more attacking options and space. For example if you can have off the top ball at the back of the lineout, you are creating space by the speed rhe ball reaches the backline and by engaging their lineout tail in the lineout.
Against SA (with Cronin throwing) Ireland used front of lineout ball, struggled to attack off that ball and invariably had to kick (40% possession reflects this). POC, with Best throwing called more long lineouts but unfortunately Best's throwing was both crooked and inaccurate.
The best ball to attack off is quick middle to tail of lineout ball. For Ireland to reach their attacking potential the hooker will have to provide this ball consistently.

[offshorerules]

Watched the game again yesterday and this time I watched the RTE coverage so learnt that it was not a forward pass for that try. Was in a pub on Saturday watching Sky so I didn't hear their half time analysis so I don't know if they picked up on it. Either way we can be pretty quick criticising RTE's coverage so it's nice to be able to pay them a compliment every now and again.

I too do not see how Folau was not pinged for a deliberate know on. As far as I know the referees have been told that if a player only uses one hand going for a ball and then knocks on it has to be deemed deliberate. Therefore it should have been a penalty definitely, and could have been awarded as a penalty try and a yellow card. I am assuming though that the referee was trying to keep 30 men on the pitch because he missed at least one other yellow card offence that I saw. So if that was his intention the fact that a penalty had already been awarded helped keep Folau on the pitch and he's a lucky lucky boy.

Overall though and I want to stress that I am usually an optimist and positive about results like this one, I was really disappointed with Ireland at the end. We were 17 points to nil up after 17 minutes and we nearly blew it. All this 'winning close matches' talk is utter bollix in my view as it never should have been close. That Australian side is undoubtedly full of talent but they are not as good as the Saffers, got beaten by a French side that lost at home to Argentina and will get beaten up in Twickenham this week in my opinion. Sure Chieka is a good coach but Foley missed 4 points that he usually would get blind folded. If we are to kick on from this Autumn series we need to become cold hearted killers and the next time we have a team on the rack the same way as we did this time we need to finish them off. Brain farts by Murray and Zebo aside there are plenty of work on's for the whole team the next time they meet up.

[Peg Leg]

Watched the game again yesterday and this time I watched the RTE coverage so learnt that it was not a forward pass for that try. Was in a pub on Saturday watching Sky so I didn't hear their half time analysis so I don't know if they picked up on it. Either way we can be pretty quick criticising RTE's coverage so it's nice to be able to pay them a compliment every now and again.

I too do not see how Folau was not pinged for a deliberate know on. As far as I know the referees have been told that if a player only uses one hand going for a ball and then knocks on it has to be deemed deliberate. Therefore it should have been a penalty definitely, and could have been awarded as a penalty try and a yellow card. I am assuming though that the referee was trying to keep 30 men on the pitch because he missed at least one other yellow card offence that I saw. So if that was his intention the fact that a penalty had already been awarded helped keep Folau on the pitch and he's a lucky lucky boy.

Overall though and I want to stress that I am usually an optimist and positive about results like this one, I was really disappointed with Ireland at the end. We were 17 points to nil up after 17 minutes and we nearly blew it. All this 'winning close matches' talk is utter bollix in my view as it never should have been close. That Australian side is undoubtedly full of talent but they are not as good as the Saffers, got beaten by a French side that lost at home to Argentina and will get beaten up in Twickenham this week in my opinion. Sure Chieka is a good coach but Foley missed 4 points that he usually would get blind folded. If we are to kick on from this Autumn series we need to become cold hearted killers and the next time we have a team on the rack the same way as we did this time we need to finish them off. Brain farts by Murray and Zebo aside there are plenty of work on's for the whole team the next time they meet up.

No nearly about it, we were 17 up and soon after we were 3 down.
Having said that, I do feel that if joe put out the word to shut up shop @ 20mins, the victory would have been greater. The aussies looked manic in the last 20 mins, but they struggled to get out of their own half.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm still positive it was a forward pass. The analysis with those lines made no sense to me. They were lined up with the back of the ruck and then a few metres back for some reason. They didn't follow the flight of the ball and to me his hands were clearly forward. With that said, if it hasn't been given then I think Oz would have had a penalty and we should have got a yellow card. There were at least three of our players killing the ball cynically when Speight was tackled.

[Oldschool]

You can't (or at least I can't) see the trajectory of the ball really well on the telly - it's much easier if you are reasonably close up in the flesh to work out what went wrong, you need two or three angles to have a go on the telly - but given that Best was throwing crooked low risk was where it was at.

But our lineout is now a problem. One of the things to work on in the six nations. If you are going to be kicking a lot you really want to have a good lineout THROWER

It's not rocket science.
A better lineout thrower gives you more attacking options and space. For example if you can have off the top ball at the back of the lineout, you are creating space by the speed rhe ball reaches the backline and by engaging their lineout tail in the lineout.
Against SA (with Cronin throwing) Ireland used front of lineout ball, struggled to attack off that ball and invariably had to kick (40% possession reflects this). POC, with Best throwing called more long lineouts but unfortunately Best's throwing was both crooked and inaccurate.
The best ball to attack off is quick middle to tail of lineout ball. For Ireland to reach their attacking potential the hooker will have to provide this ball consistently.

There might be a little twist in the tale.
Is it conceivable that the real reason we didn't maul is because mauls use up a lot of energy and if Jack and Mike were scheduled on for the full 80 then they would have to take it easy on the mauls ie the only time we would consider a maul would be from 10m or less out from their try line.
In which case POC was actually doing the best with what he had available to him.
I would add that ballistics is a lot more difficult than you might think, particularly when you have a dodgy rocket launcher.

[Oldschool]

Watched the game again yesterday and this time I watched the RTE coverage so learnt that it was not a forward pass for that try. Was in a pub on Saturday watching Sky so I didn't hear their half time analysis so I don't know if they picked up on it. Either way we can be pretty quick criticising RTE's coverage so it's nice to be able to pay them a compliment every now and again.

I too do not see how Folau was not pinged for a deliberate know on. As far as I know the referees have been told that if a player only uses one hand going for a ball and then knocks on it has to be deemed deliberate. Therefore it should have been a penalty definitely, and could have been awarded as a penalty try and a yellow card. I am assuming though that the referee was trying to keep 30 men on the pitch because he missed at least one other yellow card offence that I saw. So if that was his intention the fact that a penalty had already been awarded helped keep Folau on the pitch and he's a lucky lucky boy.

Overall though and I want to stress that I am usually an optimist and positive about results like this one, I was really disappointed with Ireland at the end. We were 17 points to nil up after 17 minutes and we nearly blew it. All this 'winning close matches' talk is utter bollix in my view as it never should have been close. That Australian side is undoubtedly full of talent but they are not as good as the Saffers, got beaten by a French side that lost at home to Argentina and will get beaten up in Twickenham this week in my opinion. Sure Chieka is a good coach but Foley missed 4 points that he usually would get blind folded. If we are to kick on from this Autumn series we need to become cold hearted killers and the next time we have a team on the rack the same way as we did this time we need to finish them off. Brain farts by Murray and Zebo aside there are plenty of work on's for the whole team the next time they meet up.

No nearly about it, we were 17 up and soon after we were 3 down.
Having said that, I do feel that if joe put out the word to shut up shop @ 20mins, the victory would have been greater. The aussies looked manic in the last 20 mins, but they struggled to get out of their own half.

It's fair to say they made us look good for the first 20 minutes and then we returned the favour for the next 20 minutes.
Madness - As Popey would say we looked a gift horse in the mouth.