Rory Best

[WarPoodle]

First time poster here.. So be gentle!

But is there anyone else thinking that Rory Best's days as 1st choice Hooker for Ireland are numbered? Brilliant as ever in the loose, but time and again for Ulster and Ireland (not to mention the Lions), he just has absolute mares with his throwing.

He had a number of opportunities with the Lions to stake a claim for the number 2 jersey but couldn't take it away from two other very mediocre team mates.

[Flash Gordon]

You almost hope that all the players best days are numbered because we have good players already and if the players coming in are even better that's outstanding! I like Best, again, he had a double digit tackle count yesterday, I think he's fantastic at the breakdown, is a massive on field leader and scrummages well. Sometimes his throwing is a little wayward but the same is true of Cronin. Think with Best, Cronin and Strauss we are very very well disposed at number 2. Joe has always been a Strauss fan, it'll be interesting to see what happens when he gets a run of games.

[blockhead]

Still the best hooker we have when everything is taken into account.

[offshorerules]

I think his scrummaging ability also has to be taken into account and I know he's rated in that regard.

[simonokeeffe]

If he doesnt sort it out he will be dropped (for Cronin), thankfully we're not under EOS anymore

[WarPoodle]

Is he though? I think I counted 4 (5?) lineouts lost on Saturday. Anytime he plays, I pray that's it's the best Best that plays, and not the one that can't throw straight or hit his man.

Don't get me wrong, the man is a fantastic leader, and animal in the loose but his bread and butter is lineouts, and whenever he's throwing I'm never as confident as I should be with a 1st choice hooker.

So if we agree that Cronin will either start on the field or the bench, does that mean it's between Strauss or Best.

[Xanthippe]

I wonder if Joe ever looked at giving the throwing duties to another player - would be interesting to see if any of our props could throw

[jimbobjoe]

I wonder if Joe ever looked at giving the throwing duties to another player - would be interesting to see if any of our props could throw

I've thought about this too but once you do that you're missing a very effective lifter in the line. Not point giving it to the row or flankers as the tend to be the ones going up for the ball. I believe back in the day it used to be wingers to throw the ball in but in the modern game you don't really want one of the quick lads tied up if the chance to spin it wide is there. I think this is the main reason hookers are throwers - short, slower than backs and not as strong as props.

Best tends to get better with a run of games so I'd be fairly confident in his throwing abilities come 6 nations time provided he stays fit.

[Xanthippe]

I wonder if Joe ever looked at giving the throwing duties to another player - would be interesting to see if any of our props could throw

I've thought about this too but once you do that you're missing a very effective lifter in the line. Not point giving it to the row or flankers as the tend to be the ones going up for the ball. I believe back in the day it used to be wingers to throw the ball in but in the modern game you don't really want one of the quick lads tied up if the chance to spin it wide is there. I think this is the main reason hookers are throwers - short, slower than backs and not as strong as props.

Best tends to get better with a run of games so I'd be fairly confident in his throwing abilities come 6 nations time provided he stays fit.

But if you use a prop to throw would you not replace him in the lineout with the non throwing hooker? I'd imagine Best and Cronin aren't far off being as strong as the props

[jimbobjoe]

I wonder if Joe ever looked at giving the throwing duties to another player - would be interesting to see if any of our props could throw

I've thought about this too but once you do that you're missing a very effective lifter in the line. Not point giving it to the row or flankers as the tend to be the ones going up for the ball. I believe back in the day it used to be wingers to throw the ball in but in the modern game you don't really want one of the quick lads tied up if the chance to spin it wide is there. I think this is the main reason hookers are throwers - short, slower than backs and not as strong as props.

Best tends to get better with a run of games so I'd be fairly confident in his throwing abilities come 6 nations time provided he stays fit.

But if you use a prop to throw would you not replace him in the lineout with the non throwing hooker? I'd imagine Best and Cronin aren't far off being as strong as the props

Not so sure.. They're a good bit smaller than pretty much all the props involved with Ireland. Obviously this doesn't relate directly to lifting ability but for arguments sake it's probably a decent enough indicator.

Add this to the mess if you want to sub your designated thrower.. Does the present hooker now throw only to be subbed off again for a third thrower? It alters the continuity of the lineout too much and has the potential to create internal confusion. Direct swaps make sense in terms of roles and continuity on field.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Yeah I think it'd cause too much hassle but what you could do....is play a bit of a game for ten mins every few weeks where you test everyone's knowledge of the line out by just mixing up the players at random. That way you might see that someone has a talent for it and could step up in a crisis like Healy and SOB did in a game a few years ago.

[olaf the fat]

or just fit the radars like Donal Lenihan is always on about

[simonokeeffe]

going by interview with GT in IT O'Connell seems to be taking some of the blame on where he's calling the throws

[berniemac67]

A bit harsh I think. He had the a slight case of the yips at the weekend having not played in a while, but I'd still be happier with a yippy Best throwing instead of a normal Cronin. Cronin having a great day is better, but that is rare. Plus, Cronin is fantastic off the for impact - that should be his role for Ireland IMHO.

[berniemac67]

going by interview with GT in IT O'Connell seems to be taking some of the blame on where he's calling the throws

deflection i think, looks like poc is taking one for the team in public. in private i am sure that best will blame himself even if team mates and management don't - i expect he will be working even harder than usual on throwing as a result.

[Dave Cahill]

going by interview with GT in IT O'Connell seems to be taking some of the blame on where he's calling the throws

deflection i think, looks like poc is taking one for the team in public. in private i am sure that best will blame himself even if team mates and management don't - i expect he will be working even harder than usual on throwing as a result.

I think O'Connell is just reflecting the reality that each instance of a successful lineout has at least three elements - thrower, receiver and supporter - and thats at its most basic level. If things go wrong its rarely the fault of one individual, and even when it is, there are things that can be done to alleviate that, increase the amount of banker calls, call a stunt line out etc until the unit confidence has been built back up

[berniemac67]

going by interview with GT in IT O'Connell seems to be taking some of the blame on where he's calling the throws

deflection i think, looks like poc is taking one for the team in public. in private i am sure that best will blame himself even if team mates and management don't - i expect he will be working even harder than usual on throwing as a result.

I think O'Connell is just reflecting the reality that each instance of a successful lineout has at least three elements - thrower, receiver and supporter - and thats at its most basic level. If things go wrong its rarely the fault of one individual, and even when it is, there are things that can be done to alleviate that, increase the amount of banker calls, call a stunt line out etc until the unit confidence has been built back up[/quote][/quote][/quote]

true, but the thrower will feel responsibilty whatever the talk is afterwards. if poc is acknowledging that his calling was off, this provides confirmation that there was a problem in one of those three elements.

the thrower only gets 100% reliable feedback from his input to the system when his throw is taken where it is intended. any other outcome and he doesn't know if his throw was accurate or not - even if there are other system failures identified.

PS - apologies for ballsing up the quotes here. edit won't permit me to fix them

[johng]

going by interview with GT in IT O'Connell seems to be taking some of the blame on where he's calling the throws

deflection i think, looks like poc is taking one for the team in public. in private i am sure that best will blame himself even if team mates and management don't - i expect he will be working even harder than usual on throwing as a result.

I think O'Connell is just reflecting the reality that each instance of a successful lineout has at least three elements - thrower, receiver and supporter - and thats at its most basic level. If things go wrong its rarely the fault of one individual, and even when it is, there are things that can be done to alleviate that, increase the amount of banker calls, call a stunt line out etc until the unit confidence has been built back up

true, but the thrower will feel responsibilty whatever the talk is afterwards. if poc is acknowledging that his calling was off, this provides confirmation that there was a problem in one of those three elements.

the thrower only gets 100% reliable feedback from his input to the system when his throw is taken where it is intended. any other outcome and he doesn't know if his throw was accurate or not - even if there are other system failures identified.

PS - apologies for ballsing up the quotes here. edit won't permit me to fix them

Yes it will....

[berniemac67]

PS - apologies for ballsing up the quotes here. edit won't permit me to fix them

Yes it will....

I'm even stupider than I thought I was

[johng]

But no one likes a smart arse.