Italy v Ireland

[Fred Funk]

Better get the thread ready in case Joe does a Gatland on it.

Main talking points
Ross or Moore?
SOB as a starter?
Who in the centres?
Will Joe rotate? Does he have the manpower to do so?

[Oldschool]

Better get the thread ready in case Joe does a Gatland on it.

Main talking points - What, no Tactical discussion.
Ross or Moore? - Moore
SOB as a starter? - No - no need to risk him.
Who in the centres? - Henshaw and Payne if fit else Madigan and Another with Keatley at OH
Will Joe rotate? Does he have the manpower to do so?

Of course he'll rotate.

[Fred Funk]

Better get the thread ready in case Joe does a Gatland on it.

Main talking points - What, no Tactical discussion.
Ross or Moore? - Moore
SOB as a starter? - No - no need to risk him.
Who in the centres? - Henshaw and Payne if fit else Madigan and Another with Keatley at OH
Will Joe rotate? Does he have the manpower to do so?

Of course he'll rotate.

Let Joe look after the tactics!!
Our main job is to guess the team.
If memory serves me right,
Joe didn't over rotate last 6N?

[Golf Man]

There was no rotation to speak of

17 players were in each match day squad, 12 started each game
Most of those who came in were injury related (Tuohy for POC v Scotland, Henderson for POM v Italy) Boss was bench SH for the first 3 games but Reddan had been injured I think

The extent of rotation was Marshall instead of Darcy v Scotland (the only change decided on personnel rather than injury) TOD was on bench for first 2 games then Murphy took his place. Madigan took Jacksons place for the last game

While this doesn't look great what is impressive is that we are likely to see 4 changes in the backs from the backs that played last year - has to be Henshaw/Payne/Zebo and Bowe - and that is arguably stronger than last year

There are only a couple of decisions to be made to my mind

TH - Probably Moore I would think, but wouldn't be surprised to see Ross
OS - Not going to be SOB, he'll be on the bench - straight call between Murphy and TOD and impossible to know where they stand
OH - I absolutely assumed and still think it would/will be Madigan - seems to be a bit of a consensus growing that this position is really up for debate and that Keatley could start

Over the 6N as a whole two players that jump out are Madigan and Henderson. Personally I'd love to see Madigan commit to 12. He hasn't improved as a 10 since Sexton left - yu can argue that MOC is to blame but his game management is every single bit as much to blame. Think he could offer a huge amount at 12, a bit of a problem position for us

Henderson, if he can stay fit has to establish himself in the first team sooner rather than later - interesting to see if he gets ahead of Toner over the course of the 6N. Those 3 are a long way ahead of all the others

[Oldschool]

OK - Tactics aside.
Joe will probably use the same 23 (injuries permitting) for the Italy and France games with rotation for the starting 15.
The current pecking order for OH is Sexton, Madigan, Keatley and Jackson.
There may be serious doubts over Sexton's durability. Given that, Joe will want to give both Madigan and Keatley a fair bit of game time at OH.
In addition he may want to see how a Keatley at 10 Madigan at 12 situation might work, due in the main to the superior kicking averages of Madigan.
IMHO it is a pity that Keatley left Leinster before Joe got his hands on him but now we might get to see, a little bit, how that might have worked out.
As regards rotation in general-
Joe has probably already seen enough enforced rotation.
No doubt he would have liked to have a look at players like Olding before this.
It's RWC year and as a result experimentation is not on the agenda.
Another poster pointed out (slightly incorrectly) that the future is only 80 minutes away.
In fact the future, for Joe, is only ever 40 minutes away.
Joe is in the chair at half time and we half seen Joe teams, quite often in the past, come out after HT and turn a game around.

[simonokeeffe]

centres look to be Henshaw and Payne with Luke 11 or 23 as centre cover, Luke v Zebo seems to be biggest decision

RK, Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Luke/Zebo, Madigan, Murray, McGrath, Best, Moore, Toner, POC, POM, TOD, Heaslip
Cronin, Cronin, Ross/White, Henderson, SOB, Reddan, Keatley, Zebo/Luke

way games are spaced isnt a huge need for rotation IMO especially as the lesser teams 1st and last games and are away

[rooster]

centres look to be Henshaw and Payne with Luke 11 or 23 as centre cover, Luke v Zebo seems to be biggest decision

RK, Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Luke/Zebo, Madigan, Murray, McGrath, Best, Moore, Toner, POC, POM, TOD, Heaslip
Cronin, Cronin, Ross/White, Henderson, SOB, Reddan, Keatley, Zebo/Luke

way games are spaced isnt a huge need for rotation IMO especially as the lesser teams 1st and last games and are away

I would have hoped the Payne in the center experiment had ceased.

[Fireworks]

Better get the thread ready in case Joe does a Gatland on it.

Main talking points -
Ross or Moore? - Ross for 50.
SOB as a starter? - Would agree that bench is most likely and give him a run for the last 20.
Who in the centres? - Would love to see Henshaw/Luke.
Will Joe rotate? Does he have the manpower to do so?

- He has the manpower in a few limited areas. There is an argument for it in the second row, backrow and the wings

[Golf Man]

centres look to be Henshaw and Payne with Luke 11 or 23 as centre cover, Luke v Zebo seems to be biggest decision

RK, Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Luke/Zebo, Madigan, Murray, McGrath, Best, Moore, Toner, POC, POM, TOD, Heaslip
Cronin, Cronin, Ross/White, Henderson, SOB, Reddan, Keatley, Zebo/Luke

way games are spaced isnt a huge need for rotation IMO especially as the lesser teams 1st and last games and are away

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ross start - would n't agree but wouldn't be surprised

Zebo/Fitz isn't the big call at all imo - has to be Zebo - played well in the AIs, playing wing, - Fitz hasn't played for Ireland in a year and a half and has barely played in the last 3 years and has been playing centre. He also offers better cover from the bench. Zebo is simply a better winger at the moment

TOD/Murphy/SOB is the big call - everyone is assuming that SOB will be on the bench - maybe he will start. TOD/Murphy - anyones guess

[Flash Gordon]

Better get the thread ready in case Joe does a Gatland on it.

Main talking points - What, no Tactical discussion.
Ross or Moore? - Moore
SOB as a starter? - No - no need to risk him.
Who in the centres? - Henshaw and Payne if fit else Madigan and Another with Keatley at OH
Will Joe rotate? Does he have the manpower to do so?

Of course he'll rotate.

Let Joe look after the tactics!!
Our main job is to guess the team.
If memory serves me right,
Joe didn't over rotate last 6N?

Hmmm..... think the tactics are probably the main talking point because the selections follow the tactics. Think Joe will want to keep it tight defensively and not reveal too much move wise which makes the whole experience a little edgy because Italy will really be up for this one.

[Fireworks]

centres look to be Henshaw and Payne with Luke 11 or 23 as centre cover, Luke v Zebo seems to be biggest decision

RK, Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Luke/Zebo, Madigan, Murray, McGrath, Best, Moore, Toner, POC, POM, TOD, Heaslip
Cronin, Cronin, Ross/White, Henderson, SOB, Reddan, Keatley, Zebo/Luke

way games are spaced isnt a huge need for rotation IMO especially as the lesser teams 1st and last games and are away

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ross start - would n't agree but wouldn't be surprised

Zebo/Fitz isn't the big call at all imo - has to be Zebo - played well in the AIs, playing wing, - Fitz hasn't played for Ireland in a year and a half and has barely played in the last 3 years and has been playing centre. He also offers better cover from the bench. Zebo is simply a better winger at the moment

TOD/Murphy/SOB is the big call - everyone is assuming that SOB will be on the bench - maybe he will start. TOD/Murphy - anyones guess

I am not sure it is just a Luke/Zebo choice to be made as you appear to be forgetting Dave Kearney and Keith Earls. I would personally put it as a Kearney/Zebo/Earls/Fitz question with Luke more likely to be 13 or on the bench.

[JB1973]

I thought Ireland's kick game in the AI was superb, especially by your half backs. How will the loss of sexton/murray affect that area of your game plan?

[flustered]

Badly JB1973 if Madigan is picked at 10 and his kicking game doesn't improve drastically!

I do expect a bit more running rugby against Italy tho, and a mix in the French game!

[jimbobjoe]

I expect Schmidt to alter the kicking gameplan based on what players are on the field. If it's reddan/marmion on the field with madigan then I'd expect Henshaw or Payne to kick more than the halves (they kicked a lot vs SA). This could justify Payne's selection if that's the case.

[Golf Man]

I am not sure it is just a Luke/Zebo choice to be made as you appear to be forgetting Dave Kearney and Keith Earls. I would personally put it as a Kearney/Zebo/Earls/Fitz question with Luke more likely to be 13 or on the bench.

Technically you are right - in that you have named all the wingers in the 38 man squad and they are obviously all possible selections

I could see the merit in Fitz but he has very little rugby at wing lately and has played once for Schmidts Ireland. He seems ideally suited

Earls on form is probably the best winger of the 4 that you mention, but he has had huge layoff and hasn't played for Ireland in almost 2 years due to injuries

Kearney had a great introduction to international rugby but lets face it, he got lucky (nothing against how well he took his chance) - Bowe, Earls, Fitz were all injured and McFadden and Zebo were just coming back from injury and he knew Schmidts ways (an advantage last year, not this year) Selecting Kearney would defy all logic

Zebo is the man in possession, was good in Autumn and is far far more threatening than a lot of the other options. Zebo divides opinion like no other. He is not as good as some claim and nowhere near as bad as others claim. He works his arse off and is prone to some mistakes, but I don't think that can't be said about any of the options => Bowe for example is prone to bad defensive mistakes. With a fully fit and in form squad to choose from he may struggle to get in the WC squad (Bowe, Earls, Trimble and Fitz could well be ahead of him). But for the game v Italy - I don't think its up for debate at all really

Zebo has a real chance this 6 Nations to impose himself on the team and to establish himself ahead of Earls/Fitz etc in the pecking order. I think Earls/Fitz are likely to be fighting it out for the 23 jersey - Fitz is clear choice for that at the moment

[Golf Man]

I thought Ireland's kick game in the AI was superb, especially by your half backs. How will the loss of sexton/murray affect that area of your game plan?

Murray is fit and will probably direct the game more so than the OH, whoever is picked

Payne/Henshaw both have good kicking games as well. Zebo and Kearney are obviously good out of hand

I don't expect all that much variation from the AIs v Italy to be honest. If Madigan starts and he probably will there is a concern about his ability to control the game. Murray will probably take more of this responsibility off him. Madigans plus side is huge but he can get bullied about a bit imo and has a tendency to do too much himself. Keatley is a far more rounded OH, but is nowhere near the danger Madigan is.

Madigan needs to become a 12 pronto imo

[COYBIB]

Who's the lad on the ground in this pic from Ireland training? (taken on Friday)

[simonokeeffe]

centres look to be Henshaw and Payne with Luke 11 or 23 as centre cover, Luke v Zebo seems to be biggest decision

RK, Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Luke/Zebo, Madigan, Murray, McGrath, Best, Moore, Toner, POC, POM, TOD, Heaslip
Cronin, Cronin, Ross/White, Henderson, SOB, Reddan, Keatley, Zebo/Luke

way games are spaced isnt a huge need for rotation IMO especially as the lesser teams 1st and last games and are away

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ross start - would n't agree but wouldn't be surprised

Zebo/Fitz isn't the big call at all imo - has to be Zebo - played well in the AIs, playing wing, - Fitz hasn't played for Ireland in a year and a half and has barely played in the last 3 years and has been playing centre. He also offers better cover from the bench. Zebo is simply a better winger at the moment

TOD/Murphy/SOB is the big call - everyone is assuming that SOB will be on the bench - maybe he will start. TOD/Murphy - anyones guess

I am not sure it is just a Luke/Zebo choice to be made as you appear to be forgetting Dave Kearney and Keith Earls. I would personally put it as a Kearney/Zebo/Earls/Fitz question with Luke more likely to be 13 or on the bench.

I think if Earls was in the running for a start on the wing he would have played there for Wolfhounds
Lukes upset tummy has worked against him
Not sure DK has been playing enough/well enough this season

Luke or Earls have to be in 23 somewhere to provide centre cover as RK, Zebo and DK dont do that and Joe has never seen T Bo as a centre

agree with Flash that we'll see a no frills gameplan to give France nothing to analyse

[cormac]

Who's the lad on the ground in this pic from Ireland training? (taken on Friday)

Cian Romaine. He's a lock in the Connacht Academy and part of the Ireland U-20 squad.

[fourthirtythree]

I think if Earls was in the running for a start on the wing he would have played there for Wolfhounds
Lukes upset tummy has worked against him
Not sure DK has been playing enough/well enough this season

Luke or Earls have to be in 23 somewhere to provide centre cover as RK, Zebo and DK dont do that and Joe has never seen T Bo as a centre

agree with Flash that we'll see a no frills gameplan to give France nothing to analyse

I think that he might have played there during the match were luke not sick. Perhaps Schmidt felt the need to audition two OCs as we have decent wing options. I'd probably pick Earls for the 23 as he covers full back and wing better than Luke.