is it just me?

[Xanthippe]

- I cannot find access to the stats you quote (or more precisely the detail) but I would really appreciate if you could share the source

Mine are from a combination of player stats on It's Rugby, match reports on Leinster Rugby and good old fashioned 'leg work' - like reading through 3 season's worth of match reports!

[Oldschoolsocks]

thx

[cormac]

Mine are from match reports on leinsterrugby.ie. I use excel a lot at work so when out of work for several months a few years back I built up a spreadsheet of all of Leinster's matches in the pro era just to keep ticking over.

[Peg Leg]

Sometimes I am amazed at the threads that make it to 2 pages

[johng]

The whole place tells the guy he's wrong, but he can still convince himself he's right. Strong willed chap. He should start a religion.

[OTT]

I guess you can get strung up on the meaning of the word understudy if you want but for me in sport an understudy is the guy who fills in (the back up)when the incumbent(s) are not playing. This is not theatre so I do not think you can crossover the literal meaning.

Recent examples of this for me at Leinster would be Macken in the 13 jersey was BOD's understudy. Jack McGrath/JOC were Cian Healy and HVDM's understudy. Tadhg Furlong is Moore's and Ross's understudy and even more confusing Ross is Moore's understudy for Leinster currently with the role's reversed for Ireland!!!. In a lot of cases an understudy will be a young guy who fills in for an older established pro but it does not have to be the case eg for Ireland Cronin and Strauss are currently Rory Best's understudies despite both being very experienced players in their own right. [As an outside example in football Victor Valdes is currently David deGea's understudy for the Manchester United goalkeepeing position because he is the backup despite being his elder by 8 or so years].

So for me Healy started as the understudy to Wright and LeRoux (with Wright being the understudy to LeRoux on the L/H side ie not first choice) so Cummisky was correct.

Just my opinion.

[Peg Leg]

I guess you can get strung up on the meaning of the word understudy if you want but for me in sport an understudy is the guy who fills in (the back up)when the incumbent(s) are not playing. This is not theatre so I do not think you can crossover the literal meaning.

Recent examples of this for me at Leinster would be Macken in the 13 jersey was BOD's understudy. Jack McGrath/JOC were Cian Healy and HVDM's understudy. Tadhg Furlong is Moore's and Ross's understudy and even more confusing Ross is Moore's understudy for Leinster currently with the role's reversed for Ireland!!!. In a lot of cases an understudy will be a young guy who fills in for an older established pro but it does not have to be the case eg for Ireland Cronin and Strauss are currently Rory Best's understudies despite both being very experienced players in their own right. [As an outside example in football Victor Valdes is currently David deGea's understudy for the Manchester United goalkeepeing position because he is the backup despite being his elder by 8 or so years].

So for me Healy started as the understudy to Wright and LeRoux (with Wright being the understudy to LeRoux on the L/H side ie not first choice) so Cummisky was correct.

Just my opinion.

I think there is a point at which you move from understudy to competition. In victor valdes case he is neither.
I don't think you can say Ross is an Understudy of Moore as he is less likely to be learning form him, he is simply the competition for the spot.
Understudy infers - apprenticeship. You would assume the next step is competitor/challenger followed by successor.

[OTT]

I guess you can get strung up on the meaning of the word understudy if you want but for me in sport an understudy is the guy who fills in (the back up)when the incumbent(s) are not playing. This is not theatre so I do not think you can crossover the literal meaning.

Recent examples of this for me at Leinster would be Macken in the 13 jersey was BOD's understudy. Jack McGrath/JOC were Cian Healy and HVDM's understudy. Tadhg Furlong is Moore's and Ross's understudy and even more confusing Ross is Moore's understudy for Leinster currently with the role's reversed for Ireland!!!. In a lot of cases an understudy will be a young guy who fills in for an older established pro but it does not have to be the case eg for Ireland Cronin and Strauss are currently Rory Best's understudies despite both being very experienced players in their own right. [As an outside example in football Victor Valdes is currently David deGea's understudy for the Manchester United goalkeepeing position because he is the backup despite being his elder by 8 or so years].

So for me Healy started as the understudy to Wright and LeRoux (with Wright being the understudy to LeRoux on the L/H side ie not first choice) so Cummisky was correct.

Just my opinion.

I think there is a point at which you move from understudy to competition. In victor valdes case he is neither.
I don't think you can say Ross is an Understudy of Moore as he is less likely to be learning form him, he is simply the competition for the spot.
Understudy infers - apprenticeship. You would assume the next step is competitor/challenger followed by successor.

Maybe, the above is just always how I have interpreted the word understudy to mean when used in sport. As you say a young guy learning for me would be an apprentice but I do not see understudy being the same as an apprentice in sporting terms. An apprentice learns an understudy supports/backs up, in some cases an understudy may very well be the apprentice but it does not always have to be the case. Anyway it is just the meaning I have always associated with the word in a sporting context but I guess others can and will interpret it differently.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Postby johng » February 18th, 2015, 10:49 am

The whole place tells the guy he's wrong, but he can still convince himself he's right. Strong willed chap. He should start a religion.

Hold on a second here -- I have freely admitted where I was wrong above especially with respect to Reggie Corrigan moving on before Ollie Le Roux came to us -- and I did not bring us down to pettiness of "Well Cian Healy's first appearance was as a replacement for Reggie Corrigan." I have been very honest with my argument.

the stats for Season 2008-2009 and Season 2009-2010 show that Cian Healy was preferred over Stan Wrigt on the Loosehead side of the scrum, so they can be put to one side for the sake of this argument.

I have clearly stated the logic for Season 2007-2008.

Stan Wright was brought over as a TH, he played LH at a pinch, and happened to be subbed by Healy on some occasions. the fact that he may have moved over from TH to play LH during a game on strengthens the case that he was a TH playing LH at a pinch, so I do not feel I am being dishonest with myself at all with my argument.

in answer to pegleg: no one is as surprised as I am that this has gone on for 2 pages, but must admit I have been persuaded that I may have been a little harsh on Cummiskey, perhaps it wasn't lazy research, I think he just used confusing language to fill up 20 words of space -- and who hasn't been guilty of that.

Oh and johng, out of curiosity do you pronounce "johng" to rhyme with "long" or as "John G" like "Ali G"?

[olaf the fat]

Postby johng » February 18th, 2015, 10:49 am

The whole place tells the guy he's wrong, but he can still convince himself he's right. Strong willed chap. He should start a religion.

Hold on a second here -- I have freely admitted where I was wrong above especially with respect to Reggie Corrigan moving on before Ollie Le Roux came to us -- and I did not bring us down to pettiness of "Well Cian Healy's first appearance was as a replacement for Reggie Corrigan." I have been very honest with my argument.

the stats for Season 2008-2009 and Season 2009-2010 show that Cian Healy was preferred over Stan Wrigt on the Loosehead side of the scrum, so they can be put to one side for the sake of this argument.

I have clearly stated the logic for Season 2007-2008.

Stan Wright was brought over as a TH, he played LH at a pinch, and happened to be subbed by Healy on some occasions. the fact that he may have moved over from TH to play LH during a game on strengthens the case that he was a TH playing LH at a pinch, so I do not feel I am being dishonest with myself at all with my argument.

in answer to pegleg: no one is as surprised as I am that this has gone on for 2 pages, but must admit I have been persuaded that I may have been a little harsh on Cummiskey, perhaps it wasn't lazy research, I think he just used confusing language to fill up 20 words of space -- and who hasn't been guilty of that.

Oh and johng, out of curiosity do you pronounce "johng" to rhyme with "long" or as "John G" like "Ali G"?

jo-hng (affroconnemara for "well hung" apparently)