Wales vs Ireland - 14/03/2015 14:30

[JB1973]

Delighted with the win. We showed huge effort and commitment out there, we won the kick chase battle and we also managed to disrupt your line out.

I can understand some of the Irish anger towards Barnes, he was very harsh on you at the breakdown and very lenient with us at the scrum (especially the last one)

Have to say the second half was one of the best games I have seen in terms of intensity and sheer will to win by both sides, every player gave their all.

If both sides can play like that in the future we will see two very successful welsh and irish sides going forward.

[RoboProp]

Delighted with the win. We showed huge effort and commitment out there, we won the kick chase battle and we also managed to disrupt your line out.

I can understand some of the Irish anger towards Barnes, he was very harsh on you at the breakdown and very lenient with us at the scrum (especially the last one)

Have to say the second half was one of the best games I have seen in terms of intensity and sheer will to win by both sides, every player gave their all.

If both sides can play like that in the future we will see two very successful welsh and irish sides going forward.

Congratulations on the win. Have absolutely no problems losing to that Welsh side. They played out of their skins. Barnes didn't do that for them.

[johng]

Delighted with the win. We showed huge effort and commitment out there, we won the kick chase battle and we also managed to disrupt your line out.

I can understand some of the Irish anger towards Barnes, he was very harsh on you at the breakdown and very lenient with us at the scrum (especially the last one)

Have to say the second half was one of the best games I have seen in terms of intensity and sheer will to win by both sides, every player gave their all.

If both sides can play like that in the future we will see two very successful welsh and irish sides going forward.

Congratulations on the win. Have absolutely no problems losing to that Welsh side. They played out of their skins. Barnes didn't do that for them.

Plus one

[nelly the elephant]

Delighted with the win. We showed huge effort and commitment out there, we won the kick chase battle and we also managed to disrupt your line out.

I can understand some of the Irish anger towards Barnes, he was very harsh on you at the breakdown and very lenient with us at the scrum (especially the last one)

Have to say the second half was one of the best games I have seen in terms of intensity and sheer will to win by both sides, every player gave their all.

If both sides can play like that in the future we will see two very successful welsh and irish sides going forward.

Congratulations on the win. Have absolutely no problems losing to that Welsh side. They played out of their skins. Barnes didn't do that for them.

Plus one

What they said.... congrats JB.....that defensive stand midway through 2nd half was extraordinary.

[Hippo]

I'm certain Sexton whacked his head off the ground after taking that big hand-off in the first couple of minutes, it would certainly explain a lot.

Well played Wales, thoroughly deserved win.

[JB1973]

Very sporting comments lads, I would expect nothing else from this forum.

I can't see us scoring enough points to win the title this weekend, if we don't I hope you guys do

[Raydollard]

Joe must have whacked his head also

[simonokeeffe]

Very sporting comments lads, I would expect nothing else from this forum.

I can't see us scoring enough points to win the title this weekend, if we don't I hope you guys do

Ospreys beating us in all those league finals prepared us well

[Twist]

The Welsh tackling was insane. The stats aren't lying, brilliant defence. If anything we did well to create as many linebreaks as we did. Then to have scored as many points as they did with so little ball is a testament to how clinical they were. How the hell did they only beat Scotland by 3?? Worrying.

I felt we shot ourselves in the foot in a couple of different ways, right from the knock-on at the kick off. It's mostly been covered here so won't rehash it but am I the only one who thought that the change in our kicking game was so pronounced that they must've been deliberate? The kicks were far long and simply not contestable.

On Barnes - I don't want to say he cost us the match but that decision at the end was so poor that the literal truth is that it DID cost us the match! He was punishing the dominant scrum all day and totally disregarded the off-side rule.

[Logorrhea]

that decision at the end was so poor that the literal truth is that it DID cost us the match! He was punishing the dominant scrum all day

It really was bizarre that call. First time I've ever seen a ref penalise a scrum for taking an intentional step to the left. He was okay every time the retreating scrum stood up, but when the scrum shifted left as the opposition prepared to buckle, it was our fault? We were pretty much mincing them in the scrum and he pinged us for it every time. Its still infuriating.

As for those two early penalties for not rolling away, they were criminally bad calls.

Barnes, had too much of an impact on the game.

[fourthirtythree]

I thought Charteris's 36 tackles had too much influence! That's Dusatoir type of world class. Both half backs didn't perform, who thought Webb and Biggat would be the better pairing? They figured out toner, out back row wasn't great... Our midfield didn't work well... Back three lost the aerial battle... Paul O'Connell carried best of our forwards... They persistently didn't knock on when we had their scrum on toast..

[Logorrhea]

They figured out toner

Eh? How do you figure that?

Best was under-throwing, O'Connell was calling the lineout, how exactly is everyone putting the blame on Toner?

[fourthirtythree]

I put plenty of blame on Best, as do most people, I heard Bernard Jackman blame the line out calls and I really respect his opinion, but they figured out the Irish line out pretty well. Not the worst shame in the world, jones is a real expert.

Toner was pretty quiet outside the line out, oconnell had a poor day there, but was pretty good otherwise I thought.

I don't think Best will be dropped but there would not be much outcry if he were.

[simonokeeffe]

I put plenty of blame on Best, as do most people, I heard Bernard Jackman blame the line out calls and I really respect his opinion, but they figured out the Irish line out pretty well. Not the worst shame in the world, jones is a real expert.

Toner was pretty quiet outside the line out, oconnell had a poor day there, but was pretty good otherwise I thought.

I don't think Best will be dropped but there would not be much outcry if he were.

the level of movement in it all season has been poor and POM has been underused IMO especially defensively

[suisse]

The Welsh defense was excellent but our inability to turn possession and territory into points is hugely damaging. If we were scoring tries in other games then this would go down as the greatest defensive display ever. But in fairness, we've been here before. We've scored fewer tries than Italy and Scotland.

Watching a back line frantically waving their arms in the air for an easy 7 pointer but no one looking up is just awful. Big issues.

[All Blacks nil]

I know it is a little sacreligious to criticise Joe but surely he deserves a little negative comment.

As everyone has noted Wales's defence was stupendous on Saturday. Totally committed throughout with exemplary line speed. They soon copped Ireland's only attacking ploy I.e. The inside pass and snuffed out the Irish threat. Whereas lesser sides would have succumbed to blunt force trauma the Welsh side stuck to their guns.

My main criticism of Joe is his refusal to condone or permit an offloading game. He is supposedly looking for accuracy at the breakdown and wants guys to be sure of their role. Some commentators have gushed lyrically about this tactic. I think that while the Irish player knows his role unfortunately the opposition are finding Ireland a tad predictable.
While the Welsh tackling stats have being much quoted aless quoted stat has been the number of Irish rucks. Ireland rucked the ball 175 times with only 5 offloads.

Ireland have only scored 4 tries this Six Nations, only one score coming from a pass. A pen try, a Murray pick and dive, a Murray chip ahead . TOD's try being the only try through the hands. IN Autumn v OZ a Zebo kick chase and a tommy Bowe intercept. V SA a Ruddock burst from a maul and a Tommy Bowe kick chase. In six games only Ian Madigan has provided s scoring pass.

Offloads open defences. The Welsh U20 try featured 3 and not trying any of them would have prevented the try. Ireland have only offloaded 17 times ( England 18 v Scotland) this season. They have rucked I.e gone to ground with the ball, a staggering 496 times.

We will not win a RWC 1/4 final, 1/2 final and final playing this rugby. We might beat teams in Dublin we might even beat Italy away but we will not make any impression on he latter stages of a RWC.

Time to loosen the shackles. Be less predictable in the tackle and less predictable to defend.

[hugonaut]

I know it is a little sacreligious to criticise Joe but surely he deserves a little negative comment.

As everyone has noted Wales's defence was stupendous on Saturday. Totally committed throughout with exemplary line speed. They soon copped Ireland's only attacking ploy I.e. The inside pass and snuffed out the Irish threat. Whereas lesser sides would have succumbed to blunt force trauma tithe Welsh side stuck to their guns.

My main criticism of Joe is his refusal to condone or permit an offloading game. He is supposedly looking for accuracy at the breakdown and wants guys to be sure of their role. Some commentators have gushed lyrically about this tactic. I think that while the Irish player knows his role unfortunately the opposition are finding Ireland a tad predictable.
While the Welsh tackling stats have being much quoted aless quoted stat has been the number of Irish rucks. Ireland rucked the ball 175 times with only 5 offloads.

Ireland have only scored 4 tries this season , only one score coming from a pass. A pen try, a Murray pick and dive, a Murray chip ahead . TOD's try being the only try through the hands. IN Autumn v OZ a Zebo kick chase and a tommy Bowe intercept. V SA a Ruddock burst from a maul and a Tommy Bowe kick chase.

Offloads open defences. The Welsh U20 try featured 3 and not trying any of them would have prevented the try. Ireland have only offloaded 17 times ( England 18 v Scotland) this season. They have rucked I.e gone to ground with the ball, a staggering 496 times.

We will not win a RWC 1/4 final, 1/2 final and final playing this rugby. We might beat teams in Dublin we might even beat Italy away but we will not make any impression on he latter stages of a RWC.

Time to loosen the shackles. Be less predictable in the tackle and less predictable to defend.

The last RWC quarter-final we played in:

Ireland 10 - 22 Wales
Ireland: 10 offloads
Wales: 0 offloads
[ source: http://www.espn.co.uk/2011-rugby-world- ... 93498.html ]

Seven of the eight winners of the knockout games in RWC11 made fewer offloads and fewer passes than the teams that they beat, the only exception being NZ strolling past Argentina in the quarters [source: http://www.espn.co.uk/2011-rugby-world- ... te=results ]:

Quarter-Finals
South Africa had 203 passes and 17 offloads to Australia's 69 passes and 5 offloads [Australia 11-9 South Africa];
Ireland's 169 passes and 10 offloads to Wales' 118 passes and 0 offloads [Ireland 10-22 Wales];
England's 168 passes and 11 offloads to France's 97 passes and 10 offloads [England 12-19 France];
Argentina had 40 passes and 3 offloads to New Zealand's 186 passes and 12 offloads [NZ 33-10 Argentina]

Semi-Finals
France had 55 passes and 2 offloads against Wales' 152 passes and 3 offloads [France 9-8 Wales]
New Zealand had 112 passes and 4 offloads to Australia's 115 passes and 12 offloads [ NZ 20-6 Australia]

Final
New Zealand had 98 passes and 6 offloads to France's 156 passes and 10 offloads [NZ 9-8 France]

Quarter-finals tend to be tetchy, nervy affairs, and they only get tetchier and nervier from there. The idea that you have to f*ck the ball around in them and offload out of contact all the time is a load of baloney. Anybody could tell you that. The main requirements are strong set-pieces, a reliable goal kicker, good decision-makers at the hinge of the team and a great defense.

[All Blacks nil]

Take a look at Ireland's near legendary 33 phases of possession as they battered the Welsh 22.

In 23 phases the pass recipient took contact and went to ground, in six phases the pass recipient passed one out, in three phases the ball was passed twice and on one occasion a maul was set up.

Ireland kicked a subsequent penalty to touch and quickly followed that up with a mere sixteen phases of possession in the 22 where in 5 phases the ball was picked and driven, in seven phases the recipient took contact and went to ground, in three phases the pass recipient passed one out and once Ireland attempted more than one pass. before JS was penalised for going off his feet as Ireland ran out of numbers and puff at the breakdown

So in consecutive passages of play ireland had 49 phases of possession (all bar one rucked), Ireland including the scrumhalf passed the ball 53 times.

incidentally this all happened before the passage of play where Healy knocked on.

Many say the Welsh showed great fitness in defence and obviously deserved great credit for their physical and mental endurance.
I think ireland suffered as much if not more in having constantly recycling the ball.
Soon after these two particular passages Alun-Wynn jones counter rucked a decidely weary Irish ruck and turned the ball over on halfway giving Wales the territory from which they scored the winning try.

Looking at Ireland's general use of the ball indicates how blunt and unambitious they were.

When Ireland passed the ball on
7 occasions the recipient kicked
92 occasions the recipient took contact and went to ground
43 the recipient passed and the one out receiver went to ground
15 occasions the ball was passed more than once.
and of course one maul.

When Ireland received the long kicks the answer was to run into contact or kick. Rarely did any of backfield defence pass long to at least attempt to stretch the Welsh and who knows even CREATE a little space.

Ireland made 254 passes in the match. 157 of those were made by Murray (108) and Reddan (49). Quick ruck ball is worthless if all you are going to do is set up another ruck. While Ireland were killing themselves rucking, the Welsh, less committed to the breakdown always had numbers on their feet in defence as indicated by Ireland's total of 5 line breaks.

like a kid painting by numbers we are playing rugby by numbers and like that kids painting,everyone knows what we are going to do and how the painting turns out.

[Oldschool]

Well now that the dust has settled spare a thought for the players who gave it everything and more.
For once an Irish team didn't let the favourites tag unsettled them.
Perhaps the main lesson to be learned is to stick to the tried and tested, because it has worked.
Gattie probably outsmarted Joe into thinking he had to change things to beat Wales.
He didn't, we conceded the aerial battle before the game started, we didn't need to and we shouldn't have done so.
C'mon on Ireland.

[All Blacks nil]

Well now that the dust has settled spare a thought for the players who gave it everything and more.
For once an Irish team didn't let the favourites tag unsettled them.
Perhaps the main lesson to be learned is to stick to the tried and tested, because it has worked.
Gattie probably outsmarted Joe into thinking he had to change things to beat Wales.
He didn't, we conceded the aerial battle before the game started, we didn't need to and we shouldn't have done so.
C'mon on Ireland

.

Would you have kicked the ball during those 49 phases of "green zone "possession?

The aerial game gives us the territory from which to attack. We could have stuck with that more , although the Welsh dominated the early exchanges winning both their own and our kicks.
We conceded the kickoff also , kicking too long and indeed out on the full , all the while struggling on the Welsh kickoff.

We need to learn how to attack with ball in hand