Scotland v Ireland. 2:30 pm. Saturday 21st March.

[Flash Gordon]

Could we please all work hard to avoid the Earls to 13 debate all over again? Think of the children!

Tonic Wine makes a good point though. If your 13 isn't going to pass it anyway, you might as well have Earls in there. Somebody posted our pathetic offload numbers. Dare I say it, the gameplan reeks a bit of sabermetrics. Which is OK to a point, provide you don;t become a slave to the "system".

Payne looks uncomfortable at 13 so far. We're crying out for some linebreaking ability and Earls is proven as Ireland's best exponent. He's proving it for Munster while Ireland is crashing up predictable one-outs against the rocks.

I'd have him on the left wing for sure. Jones at 23 is a luxury we shouldn't be affording, to be honest. Payne covers 15 pretty damn well (unless Joe doesn't rate him as a FB in the Ireland plan...). Ditto Zebo when he was picked. Even Madigan at a pinch. Given how pedestrian our midfield has looked, we need to be starting Earls with Fitz at 23, imo. Plenty of options there for some impact.

Think the answer is to start offloading rather than accept that we can't and try and run through the center with the best player we think we have to do this - and I think if that were the game plan Fitz would probably be better (his distribution is poor too). Either way, that's unlikely to win us test matches generally. I do worry about our gas and Earls does have that, for all his linebreaking ability, Fitzgerald is no Denis Hickie. However, unforunately Earl's doesn't have Hickie's rugby brain either....

[janeymac08]

Statistics, the last refuge.......

The last refuge is claiming that stats are the last refuge

[Golf Man]

Could we please all work hard to avoid the Earls to 13 debate all over again? Think of the children!

Can't nor shouldn't be avoided - our options at 13 are Payne(who's good but is definitely far better at 15), Henshaw (creates an issue at 12, and still has issues with distribution), Fitz (again distribution issues and seen by Schmidt as a wing), Earls (great gas, but that distribution issue) Cave (definitely the most natural 13 but lacking top end quality and not going to get that now)

I think we have kind of stumbled on Henshaw/Payne due to injuries (Fitz, Earls, Marshall, Olding, Sexton not being 100%) and in retaining Darcy too long. Personally I'd like to see Henshaw given a proper chance at 13 - think he is far more that the bosh merchant we've been using him as. Don't see that happening until after the world cup now though

[simonokeeffe]

lets not all forget that this is George Hooks last match too, thats going to be one awkward tribute, especially when Frankie is the only ex player to wish him luck
perhaps he can take over Top Gear, hes making a start with the xenophobia

[Dave Cahill]

lets not all forget that this is George Hooks last match too, thats going to be one awkward tribute, especially when Frankie is the only ex player to wish him luck
perhaps he can take over Top Gear, hes making a start with the xenophobia

it's one of those unfortunate by-products of having people for entertainment value as opposed to people who are a little bit more in-depth in their analysis

Anyone who knows Joe knows that this is the equivalent of anyone else calling Hook a c**t-Faced f%~king c**t.

[simonokeeffe]

lets not all forget that this is George Hooks last match too, thats going to be one awkward tribute, especially when Frankie is the only ex player to wish him luck
perhaps he can take over Top Gear, hes making a start with the xenophobia

it's one of those unfortunate by-products of having people for entertainment value as opposed to people who are a little bit more in-depth in their analysis

Anyone who knows Joe knows that this is the equivalent of anyone else calling Hook a c**t-Faced f%~king c**t.

Yup, he had nicer things to say about the people that burgled his house

I hope the tribute is a montage of all his pronouncements with every second one being him saying Leinster should sack Joe

[fourthirtythree]

Could we please all work hard to avoid the Earls to 13 debate all over again? Think of the children!

Can't nor shouldn't be avoided - our options at 13 are Payne(who's good but is definitely far better at 15), Henshaw (creates an issue at 12, and still has issues with distribution), Fitz (again distribution issues and seen by Schmidt as a wing), Earls (great gas, but that distribution issue) Cave (definitely the most natural 13 but lacking top end quality and not going to get that now)

I think we have kind of stumbled on Henshaw/Payne due to injuries (Fitz, Earls, Marshall, Olding, Sexton not being 100%) and in retaining Darcy too long. Personally I'd like to see Henshaw given a proper chance at 13 - think he is far more that the bosh merchant we've been using him as. Don't see that happening until after the world cup now though

If we retained Darcy too long (and I think we did) it was to the exclusion of Marshall and Olding, Henshaw wasn't considered for 12 so it didn't really make any difference to the situation we are in now. And I don't see Marshall entering the reckoning any time soon. I agree, I'd rather see Henshaw at 13 also and Payne given a shot at 15.

But who plays 12? The other three options are Madigan, Hanrahan, and Keatley. Not mad on those options either.

And I know flash said it the other day also but Fitz does not have distribution issues. That said I'd have been happy with either of Earls or Luke coming off the bench for Payne and getting a shot at 13. And I would probably have had Earls on the bench ahead of Luke as it happens.

[Donny B.]

lets not all forget that this is George Hooks last match too, thats going to be one awkward tribute, especially when Frankie is the only ex player to wish him luck
perhaps he can take over Top Gear, hes making a start with the xenophobia

And that is why, no matter what happens in the actual matches, tomorrow is already a great day for Irish rugby.

[johng]

lets not all forget that this is George Hooks last match too, thats going to be one awkward tribute, especially when Frankie is the only ex player to wish him luck
perhaps he can take over Top Gear, hes making a start with the xenophobia

And that is why, no matter what happens in the actual matches, tomorrow is already a great day for Irish rugby.

Is he really, really, genuinely going? He hasn't changed his mind or anything?

[Donny B.]

lets not all forget that this is George Hooks last match too, thats going to be one awkward tribute, especially when Frankie is the only ex player to wish him luck
perhaps he can take over Top Gear, hes making a start with the xenophobia

And that is why, no matter what happens in the actual matches, tomorrow is already a great day for Irish rugby.

Is he really, really, genuinely going? He hasn't changed his mind or anything?

There was a truly horrible moment when he said he'd reversed his retirement but I think that's since been clarified as a joke.

[Golf Man]

If we retained Darcy too long (and I think we did) it was to the exclusion of Marshall and Olding, Henshaw wasn't considered for 12 so it didn't really make any difference to the situation we are in now. And I don't see Marshall entering the reckoning any time soon. I agree, I'd rather see Henshaw at 13 also and Payne given a shot at 15.

But who plays 12? The other three options are Madigan, Hanrahan, and Keatley. Not mad on those options either.

And I know flash said it the other day also but Fitz does not have distribution issues. That said I'd have been happy with either of Earls or Luke coming off the bench for Payne and getting a shot at 13. And I would probably have had Earls on the bench ahead of Luke as it happens.

Agree with all that but we don't know that Henshaw wasn't considered for 12 - and if he wasn't then why not - having him playing alongside BOD last year could only have helped him hugely. Personally I'm not sure that Olding will make it as a 12 - very hard to play there at his size - certain positiosn you can get away with it (ie Ford for England) but at 12 there really isn't any hiding place - possibly 15 might work for him. Marshall in jury problems have been a big blow - really looked like a guy that could grow into the position and tick all the boxes.

Personally I'd like Madigan at 12. He is falling into the same category as Fitz and Earls (without hitting their heights at the top level) - I think he, Leinster and Ireland would all benefit from him moving to 12 full time.

BTW we could have hit on something with Henshaw/Payne and it is potentially the best centre partnership - they are never going to look that way with this gameplan though

Don't know what to think about tomorrow to be honest - half think we could go out and blow the Scots away using the game plan we have used so far (and I don't think we are going to change it a whole lot except added mauling) and possibly win the championship, other part says that its too one dimensional and Scots have good backs who could do damage.

I think we'll win but won't win the championship (Might even come third - I reckon Wales will hammer Italy)

[johng]

And that is why, no matter what happens in the actual matches, tomorrow is already a great day for Irish rugby.

Is he really, really, genuinely going? He hasn't changed his mind or anything?

There was a truly horrible moment when he said he'd reversed his retirement but I think that's since been clarified as a joke.

Phew!

The aul fecker is doing our school dinner next week with Donal Lenihan, Conor O'Shea & Ryle Nugent. Clashes with the Glasgow game though so I'm not going.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'll never understand what people have seen to suggest that Olding is too small for 12. Plus he's the same height and only 3kgs lighter than Madigan. That's going off the Leinster and Ulster sites, although I doubt they're accurate because there's no way that Madigan is 5'11. Anyway, the point is that there isn't much between them physically.

[simonokeeffe]

Henshaw second in defenders beaten for the tournament so far with 12

[Logorrhea]

Its amazing to read the negativity on this thread. We are still in with a shot of a championship (back to back), we were a couple of bad decisions away from a possible GS. We've finally got a winning team and after one close defeat you want to play more exciting rugby (and lose), and swap the midfield because Earls has suddenly learned how to pass in mickey mouse semi-strength league matches?

F*ckin idiots.

[suisse]

Its amazing to read the negativity on this thread.

F*ckin idiots.

Why? I think Hook has been out of his depth for years and his impending retirement is a good thing.

[olaf the fat]

Great times for Irish rugby.
Current champs and still in contention on the last day.

[Logorrhea]

Why? I think Hook has been out of his depth for years and his impending retirement is a good thing.

[offshorerules]

Its amazing to read the negativity on this thread. We are still in with a shot of a championship (back to back), we were a couple of bad decisions away from a possible GS. We've finally got a winning team and after one close defeat you want to play more exciting rugby (and lose), and swap the midfield because Earls has suddenly learned how to pass in mickey mouse semi-strength league matches?

F*ckin idiots.

This. +1

[offshorerules]

Statistics, the last refuge.......

The last refuge is claiming that stats are the last refuge

Want to give us the stats about a former munster centres record for Ireland versus bods? tw@t.