Ireland World Cup Squad (17-14 split) Backs

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Could still be Madigan, my point was that you would run with those 3 instead of bringing Cave, Darce, Ferg or Luke Marshall just to play 12 in one game. Well, that and the fact that I think it could work well.

[simonokeeffe]

Could still be Madigan, my point was that you would run with those 3 instead of bringing Cave, Darce, Ferg or Luke Marshall just to play 12 in one game. Well, that and the fact that I think it could work well.

so 3 outhalves and 2 centres with Luke and Earls covering midfield?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Yeah it would help free up a spot to get both of those guys in the squad. Given how Joe sees Felix Jones, he may not be bothered about that spark/versatility and will just want another out and out centre who's a solid option to throw in if needs be. To me it seems like a waste of a spot to bring someone like Cave (for some reason I see him as the most likely) though when they're really just going to be used for one game and there are other options who could easily cover. If either Henshaw or Payne do get injured during the tournament then we'd still be able to call someone up.

As much as I like Madigan and expect him to perform better under Joe, watching that intercept against Toulon made me less comfortable with him being on the Ireland bench because he can also cover 12, and then Jackson playing well on Saturday and nailing that kick at the end really drummed that home.

[Golf Man]

its probably a good situation that the tight calls will be for the bench/squad places.

Not sure if Schmidt is ruthless - even though he is definitely loyal, the best coaches are usually ruthless when they need to be, so I'll assume he will be

While he probably has about 80% of the squad decided on he will bviously announce a massive squad and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him keeping an honestly open mind on the remaining squad players (not that we'll ever no for definite), with decisions based on what he sees in training and the wrm ups - this will presumably be the longest he will have had a squad together

Earls has to be given a decent chance - think he will be - he was there or thereabouts in the 6N - and has been sensational since then
Trimble has to be given a decent chance top prove that he is up to it
Jackson has to be given a proper shot (although I think he'll definitely go either way - possible recriminations for Madigan if Schmidt is really happy with the place kicking and Jones for the bench spot)

Centre is obviously the one weak enough area numbers wise - Schmidt seems to be big on specialists (even if they are playing in different positions to where they normally play). If he is happy with Jackson as place kicker he may decide to bring only 2 out halves and select a more specialist centre (Cave perhaps who has been playing 12 with Payne and obviously has load sof rugby at 13) Is Madigan worth the selection as 3rd choice 10 and 2nd choice 12 - are we better with a better option as backup 12 and no 3rd 10 - difficult call. Personally I'd go with Madigan but it wouldn't surprise me to see guys like Fitz, Madigan, Jones, Trimble being left behind

[olaf the fat]

its probably a good situation that the tight calls will be for the bench/squad places.

Not sure if Schmidt is ruthless - even though he is definitely loyal, the best coaches are usually ruthless when they need to be, so I'll assume he will be

While he probably has about 80% of the squad decided on he will bviously announce a massive squad and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him keeping an honestly open mind on the remaining squad players (not that we'll ever no for definite), with decisions based on what he sees in training and the wrm ups - this will presumably be the longest he will have had a squad together

Earls has to be given a decent chance - think he will be - he was there or thereabouts in the 6N - and has been sensational since then
Trimble has to be given a decent chance top prove that he is up to it
Jackson has to be given a proper shot (although I think he'll definitely go either way - possible recriminations for Madigan if Schmidt is really happy with the place kicking and Jones for the bench spot)

Centre is obviously the one weak enough area numbers wise - Schmidt seems to be big on specialists (even if they are playing in different positions to where they normally play). If he is happy with Jackson as place kicker he may decide to bring only 2 out halves and select a more specialist centre (Cave perhaps who has been playing 12 with Payne and obviously has load sof rugby at 13) Is Madigan worth the selection as 3rd choice 10 and 2nd choice 12 - are we better with a better option as backup 12 and no 3rd 10 - difficult call. Personally I'd go with Madigan but it wouldn't surprise me to see guys like Fitz, Madigan, Jones, Trimble being left behind

Thats the crazy thing about the RWC, after playing italy & france in the last 2 group games, and if we do get over the QF - some of that 20% is likely to feature due to injury

[simonokeeffe]

Cave's face doesnt fit remember so IMO if theres a 3rd specialist centre its Darcy and/or Henshaw is given a wolverine blood transfusion

[Golf Man]

We don't really know and can't really guess Schmidts thinking on centre backups (we can probably make an educated guess on the wingers pecking order)

We know that Henshaw and Payne are the current first choice - that's not going to change unless there is injury

He has to consider a couple of things - his backups to start if required and his cover off the bnench

In the last year (10 matches - since BOD retired) the starts are
12: Henshaw 6, Darcy 2, Cave 1, Marshall 1
13: Payne 6, Cave 2, Henshaw 1, McFadden 1

(Keatley/Madigan may have had some time at 12 and I think Bowe filled in there when Payne was injured in the 6N)

Fitz and Earls weren't available for the summer and autumn games - when there would have been some experimentation

If Henshaw gets injured then you need someone to come straight into start - this could help Darcy, but also Cave as (he plays with Payne at 12 atm)
If Payne is out do you move Henshaw out and rejig - or as would seem mor eliley for Schmidt, you slot someone else in (I don't thoink it would be Bowe because you may as well move Henshaw if you are going to move a starter - this probably benefits Cave and Earls I would have thought
Cave and Earls also have the advantage of flexibility (and form v Darcy)

Madigan also comes into the equation although I think at this stage its more as cover for 12 off the bench than as a possible starter

If he doesn't have a third specialist centre then you are left with Madigan, Fitzgerald, Bowe and Earls probably covering 12 and 13 - that looks a bit light to my mind - I'd lean towards Cave - while Darcy won't let anyone down, to my mind a 1 position player needs to be a starter or in a specialised position (half back, hooker or prop) to justify selection. If he takes the gamble and doesn't take either Cave or Darcy, we arguably end up with a better squad but could come stuck in the case of injuries. Similar to Jones - leave him and Darcy/Cave behind and we can probably pick the best talent but not sure if its the best squad. Personally I can't see Schmidt being that cavalier - reckon he will pick a third centre and Jones - meaning that two of Earls/Fitz/Zebo/Trimble/Madigan will miss out

[offshorerules]

I'm not sure about that last group though suspect you could turn out to be correct. I just wouldn't include Madigan as he can cover 10 and 12, so in my mind he is certain to be in the squad.

[Golf Man]

I expect Madigan to be picked because I don't think he will go with just two options at 10 but he might be tempted to leave him out to allow an extra outside back to be brought. All depends on where he is seen as a 12 - if he is third choice 10 (and atm I wouldn't even have him there) and second choice 12 then there is absolutely a case for bringing him (bit like Paddy Wallace) - if he is third choice 10 and third choice 12 then maybe he may be seen as excessive. Who is chosen as backup centres is completely key to all selections in the backs - I don't see a role for Darcy and Madigan in the squad, and I certainly don't want a situation where Darcy, Madigan and Jones are brought, which could happen. Personally (and I would imagine like a lot of other) I would bring Madigan and jettison Darcy and Jones

Murray/Reddan/Marmion
Sexton/Jackson/Madigan
Henshaw/Payne
Earls/Bowe/Fitz/Zebo/Trimble
Kearney

Madigan covering 12, Earls/Fitz covering 13, Zebo covering 15

Possibly a bit light on centre cover particualy at 12 - possibly Cave instead of one of the wingers

[fourthirtythree]

Does Keatley offer much less at 12 than Madigan? Because right now he would be ahead of him for third 10...

12 is light. It's such a problem that Henshaw has been moved in there...

[Golf Man]

Does Keatley offer much less at 12 than Madigan? Because right now he would be ahead of him for third 10...

12 is light. It's such a problem that Henshaw has been moved in there...

I'd have Keatley ahead of Madigan as 3rd 10 but behind him for 12 (where the need is far greater) - Madigan has plenty of rugby at 12 this year (even though he hasn't been great)

It is absolutely the trickiest spot to select - pity that Olding isn't in the frame and that Marshall has been injured so much - also seems too late for the likes of McCloskey to come through. I think we should back Madigan and he has the versatility where we need it. Hard to know which way to call it - we are possibly leaving ourselves a little bit light if we don't bring someone who is trusted to slot in at 12 if Henshaw gets injured - I think Cave will be right there in the discussion - better form than Darcy and more flexible (and playing with Payne) - leaving Henshaw/Madigan/Cave covering 12 (not nec in that order)

[simonokeeffe]

The other aspect of Jackson playing himself into no22 and Madigan trying to play himself out of it is then Felix Jones becomes even more of a liability on the bench as theres even less centre cover especially at 12, coupled with a fit Trimble and Zebo covering 15 in the squad then the chances of Jones going at all diminish

Jones has never been up for selection against fully fit Bowe, Zebo, Luke, Trimble

McFadden was 23 (Jackson 22 for 4 games) for all of 2014 6n winning campaign, Trimble & DK starting wings, Jones was fit for that entire campaign

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I do think he's nailed on to go but they're really good points. Even allowing for my suggestion that Jackson could play ten and Sexton move out it still all makes sense.

I'm beginning to see why Joe was so reluctant to move the centres around at all, albeit he couldn't have known that Olding would have picked up another bad injury.

[Golf Man]

The other aspect of Jackson playing himself into no22 and Madigan trying to play himself out of it is then Felix Jones becomes even more of a liability on the bench as theres even less centre cover especially at 12, coupled with a fit Trimble and Zebo covering 15 in the squad then the chances of Jones going at all diminish

Jones has never been up for selection against fully fit Bowe, Zebo, Luke, Trimble

McFadden was 23 (Jackson 22 for 4 games) for all of 2014 6n winning campaign, Trimble & DK starting wings, Jones was fit for that entire campaign

From what I remember McFadden, Zebo, Bowe, Earls, Fitz and Kearney x 2 were all available during this 6N (some admittedly coming back from injury) and Jones made the 23 for every game - while his place on the bench would probably be a little bit more in doubt I'm not sure it would be hugely so either.l Its another awkward teaser for Schmidt

Madigan and Jones covered 10,12 and 15 relatively well but Jones covering 11/15 just doesn't fill anyone with confidence, but Schmidt was hapopy to do it
Jackson and Jones leaves a bit of a gaping hole at 12 and has the same issue on wingsd (which may not be an issue at all in Schmidts eyes) but the upshot is that 10 is covered far better than with Madigan
I wouldn't be surprised if he continues the selection policy he had with Keatley in the 6N tbh - Madigan benches (and is probably only used in case of injury or when well ahead) but Jackson starts when necessary - I think we should have the likes of Earls/Fitz or Zebo as No.23.
Jones may miss out but wouldn't be surprised to see him the squad - wouldn't be in mine

[LeRouxIsPHat]

It's funny, for all this talk of having such a great squad and that some really top class players will be left out (and they will), if there are a couple of injuries to the starting backs then we could look significantly weaker with players like Reddan, Cave/Darce and Jones starting. No offence to those guys but they're just not in the same league as who they'd be replacing and could well be next in line.

[simonokeeffe]

The other aspect of Jackson playing himself into no22 and Madigan trying to play himself out of it is then Felix Jones becomes even more of a liability on the bench as theres even less centre cover especially at 12, coupled with a fit Trimble and Zebo covering 15 in the squad then the chances of Jones going at all diminish

Jones has never been up for selection against fully fit Bowe, Zebo, Luke, Trimble

McFadden was 23 (Jackson 22 for 4 games) for all of 2014 6n winning campaign, Trimble & DK starting wings, Jones was fit for that entire campaign

From what I remember McFadden, Zebo, Bowe, Earls, Fitz and Kearney x 2 were all available during this 6N (some admittedly coming back from injury) and Jones made the 23 for every game - while his place on the bench would probably be a little bit more in doubt I'm not sure it would be hugely so either.l Its another awkward teaser for Schmidt

Madigan and Jones covered 10,12 and 15 relatively well but Jones covering 11/15 just doesn't fill anyone with confidence, but Schmidt was hapopy to do it
Jackson and Jones leaves a bit of a gaping hole at 12 and has the same issue on wingsd (which may not be an issue at all in Schmidts eyes) but the upshot is that 10 is covered far better than with Madigan
I wouldn't be surprised if he continues the selection policy he had with Keatley in the 6N tbh - Madigan benches (and is probably only used in case of injury or when well ahead) but Jackson starts when necessary - I think we should have the likes of Earls/Fitz or Zebo as No.23.
Jones may miss out but wouldn't be surprised to see him the squad - wouldn't be in mine

McFadden was injured for most of it, as was DK, Zebo was injured/fatigued for last round, line on Luke was he was still working his way up to form (on wing) and think he pulled out of wolfhounds last minute, same with Earls

but was mainly trying to draw some comparison to when Jackson was on the bench (not madigan)

[olaf the fat]

It's funny, for all this talk of having such a great squad and that some really top class players will be left out (and they will), if there are a couple of injuries to the starting backs then we could look significantly weaker with players like Reddan, Cave/Darce and Jones starting. No offence to those guys but they're just not in the same league as who they'd be replacing and could well be next in line.

Which potential injury crisis is worst, Sexton or Murray?

[Fireworks]

It's funny, for all this talk of having such a great squad and that some really top class players will be left out (and they will), if there are a couple of injuries to the starting backs then we could look significantly weaker with players like Reddan, Cave/Darce and Jones starting. No offence to those guys but they're just not in the same league as who they'd be replacing and could well be next in line.

Which potential injury crisis is worst, Sexton or Murray?

Sexton by a distance.

[Peg Leg]

I'd say Jackson could do a job for us with Murray at sh. I'd be more worried about the drop off from Murray to reddan.

[simonokeeffe]

It's funny, for all this talk of having such a great squad and that some really top class players will be left out (and they will), if there are a couple of injuries to the starting backs then we could look significantly weaker with players like Reddan, Cave/Darce and Jones starting. No offence to those guys but they're just not in the same league as who they'd be replacing and could well be next in line.

Which potential injury crisis is worst, Sexton or Murray?

Paul O'Connell and Robbie Henshaw would be the other two injury crisis

Going by 6n gameplan: Murray