SARU OFFICIALLY PUT RACISM IN WRITING

[LeRouxIsPHat]

"Fast tracked due to quotas"...kind of implied it was due to quotas!

With Brussouw, I think it was a worry when he first came on the scene, but the a lions tour removed any doubts and he'd have stayed in the side if it wasn't for those issues I mentioned.

[Golf Man]

Source for the fact? The idea that you couldn't fashion more players from 41% of the playing numbers based on genetics is bullshit.SA have fielded there share of gash players and they're not all people of colour.

SA also has a massive steroid problem, not all related to sport(has a lot to do with vanity), which no doubt contributes to richer white people getting ahead of competitors. Course your cool with that.

See my post above^ Genetics play a massive part. I dont know if you have ever been to SA, the difference is stark, Im a relatively "big" guy compared to your average Irish person, a shade under 6ft and about 92/4odd kg, most Afrikans country lads are about 100kg+ easily and 6'2/3 average, they dwarf you. I'm not not saying genetics alone are the reason why black players aren't coming through(as I pointed out in my post(s) above), but it is a factor, in the same way there are zero Indians coming through. Investment at youth level could bridge the gap, but you will still be face with the same conundrum, talent being equal, a 6ft guy vs a 6ft4 guy, the Boks always pick the 6ft4 guy. Size matters.

Put it this way, Bolla conradie/ricky Januarie are your template for Black South Africans, Schalk Burger/Duane Vermeuelen are your template for Afrikaners......I know which genetic pool I am growing my team from.

If there were equal numbers, genetics would play a big role (I think the average height of a Dutch man is about 5'11 - which is tal, and the average for a black South African is about 5'7") but the fact that there are ten times as many black Africans more than cancels this out. The societal effect of wealth, diet, immersion in the sport etc all have as big an impact as the genetics. Your point on the desire/interest works - the genetics argument doesn't (unless you have actual facts to back it up). You may have read The Sports Gene or Bounce which cover these topics - White South Africans are genetically advantaged for rugby, but they are far more societally advantaged

[simonokeeffe]

I watched Bulls V Cheetahs today, Edinburgh in Murrayfield esque attendance which is surprising for last home game of season plus the 2 Boer provinces playing each other, but Bulls had 3 players of colour in the 23, Cheetahs had 4

[locho]

Bump following today's news from SA

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springbo ... y-20150811

[simonokeeffe]

Bump following today's news from SA

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springbo ... y-20150811

I dont watch that much Super Rugby but who are these black players allegedly complaining to a union theyre not being picked (and some white players agreeing) even though theyre the form guys? in terms of names/positions not temerity!

Granted Matfield, Burger, De Villiers shouldnt be in the team but its Kruger, de Jager etc who should be ahead of Matfield, Alberts & Vermuelen (both injured) in backrow, Kriel in centre, halfbacks and fullback theres no debate so I dont see the debate along racial lines, a few bench calls maybe

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That's one of the most idiotic things I've ever read. It's as if the No campaigners have moved to SA and decided to tackle the race issue.

[olaf the fat]

to make matters worse they have to play the world cup looking like theyve swimming armbands on

Sticking a few photos of black players in the background wont sort out the quota problems

[simonokeeffe]

If not true this union official has made life hard for the black players especially the Stormers ones as it will be assumed it was them, but I dont see how Carr or Kolisi merit starting in a balanced backrow but by playing 3 opensides (out of position) this summer Meyer has left that as a stick to beat him with. In general Meyer is just picking players he knows when he/they were last relevant

Do people who watch more super rugby than me reckon Carr, Kolisis, De Jongh deserve a place?

Whoever takes over after the RWC from Meyer might be inadvertantly forced into transformation due to sheer volume of senior players leaving South Africa

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The fella talking about it clearly hadn't a notion. The thing about JDV was particularly stupid. It's simply explained as trying to get their captain ready in time for the World Cup but he acts as if its a conspiracy.

I have a feeling that if you looked at it more closely there wouldn't be an issue because judging by that article my guess is that those 5 "springbok contenders" may have said something quite innocuous which has been blown out of proportion. Maybe something along the lines of "it'd be nice if we all got capped so that young black kids could be inspired" and it's been twisted to suit an agenda. I'm not in denial about racial issues in SA (and I've no connection to SA btw) but that article just smacks of bullshit.

[simonokeeffe]

The fella talking about it clearly hadn't a notion. The thing about JDV was particularly stupid. It's simply explained as trying to get their captain ready in time for the World Cup but he acts as if its a conspiracy.

I have a feeling that if you looked at it more closely there wouldn't be an issue because judging by that article my guess is that those 5 "springbok contenders" may have said something quite innocuous which has been blown out of proportion. Maybe something along the lines of "it'd be nice if we all got capped so that young black kids could be inspired" and it's been twisted to suit an agenda. I'm not in denial about racial issues in SA (and I've no connection to SA btw) but that article just smacks of bullshit.

union agitators

could well be a very different looking Bok side by the time we roll out there next june

[leinster4life13]

South African economy crumbling? Inept corrupt racist communist government, increasing poverty, guess its time to blame the Afrikaners and "their" rugby team again.... Its amazing Cosatu dont say the same about the racial make up of football team... The ANC and their fellow pigs at the trough want to kill the Boks, simple as, they have already gotten rid of the Bok(from the jersey), have quotas at every level and now this nonsense. Meyer is playing Kirchner(though he isnt "black" according to their metric) ffs, throw insults at his coaching by all means, but bleating racism at everything is old news, its utterly transparent. Also, lol at "the advantages of a diverse team". The only benefit that will come from all of this is Ireland permanently being around the top three and a load of young Afrikaners being forced overseas to play rugby.
SARU just need to up their bribes, appoint a few comrades as "transformation officers", plough more money into the black hole that is the Kings, wheel out Cheeky Watson and things should simmer down, until the mining sector collapses and SA goes into freefall at some point in the next ten years.

If not true this union official has made life hard for the black players especially the Stormers ones as it will be assumed it was them, but I dont see how Carr or Kolisi merit starting in a balanced backrow but by playing 3 opensides (out of position) this summer Meyer has left that as a stick to beat him with. In general Meyer is just picking players he knows when he/they were last relevant

Do people who watch more super rugby than me reckon Carr, Kolisis, De Jongh deserve a place?

Whoever takes over after the RWC from Meyer might be inadvertantly forced into transformation due to sheer volume of senior players leaving South Africa

Kolisi was never international standard, two or three operations on his knees have taken their toll, he isnt big enough nor powerful enough to play international rugby on the blindside(let alone blindside for the Boks, who can call upon armies of 18st 6'4 monsters to play 6) and isnt better than Flouw, Burger or Brussouw at openside.
Carr is second best 8(or third if you count Burger) at the Stormers, the young lad from the Lions can feel more aggrieved than he does. He's too lightweight to be an international 8, simple, plays like Pierre Spies, without Spies's physique. Depends on how you want to play rugby, you could pick him and marvel at his link play and nice hands, but when it comes to murdering rucks and creating fast ball and carrying in the tight you'll notice what he lacks.
De Jongh is a good provincial player, not as good as Kriel at 13, but he could arguably feel hard done by when JdV was put in ahead of him(based on form, in that JdV has been injured), however they need to get their captain match fit, so he lost out. He's about the fourth choice 13 in the country, with Fourie out of the picture. He's also is really physically limited, no future with a guy like that at international level.

[simonokeeffe]

even when it was the bears I knew it was the communists

if you look at the players in/out at Super rugby sides it is all white players leaving/retiring and IIRC they do have limits on number of overseas players?

[leinster4life13]

even when it was the bears I knew it was the communists

if you look at the players in/out at Super rugby sides it is all white players leaving/retiring and IIRC they do have limits on number of overseas players?

[Stuka]

In South Africa the blacks and the coloured hate each other more then they hate the whites and they both hate economic immigrants more then anyone. All whipped up by the ANC. Its a horrible degenerite hole of a country. A cesspit of racial hatred and mistrust. I was there for the Lions tour. I would NEVER go back in a million years.

For the main part the blacks have zero interest in the game of Rugby. Footbal is the game they play. There are no whites playing in the Bafana squad but no one crys foul there.

This is a complete non story whipped up by the ANC.

[simonokeeffe]

to devils advocate a bit, is there no black middle class interest in rugby?

if 90% of white people and 10% of black people are into rugby thats the same number population wise

[Dave Cahill]

to devils advocate a bit, is there no black middle class interest in rugby?

if 90% of white people and 10% of black people are into rugby thats the same number population wise

41% of rugby players below professional level are black

[leinster4life13]

^But then you get back to physical aptitude, look at the genetic make up of native South Africans, they have not evolved in the same way, as say, West Africans, look at the frame of athletes from Ghana, Nigeria, Ivory Coast and then compare it to SA, (even in the likes of football for example)they dont produce big fast powerful athletes in the main. You cant win in rugby with a team of Eoin Reddans, look at the struggles Japan have had for years due to not being able to get big fast athletes playing rugby. Looking at bare population stats is useless when it comes to producing athletes, its genetic aptitude, political whining cant change that fact, elite sports science can to an extent, but SA doen't have that sort of money or organisation to set up that type of program.

[simonokeeffe]

to devils advocate a bit, is there no black middle class interest in rugby?

if 90% of white people and 10% of black people are into rugby thats the same number population wise

41% of rugby players below professional level are black

you can prove anything with statistics, 43% of people know that

[Flash Gordon]

In South Africa the blacks and the coloured hate each other more then they hate the whites and they both hate economic immigrants more then anyone. All whipped up by the ANC. Its a horrible degenerite hole of a country. A cesspit of racial hatred and mistrust. I was there for the Lions tour. I would NEVER go back in a million years.

For the main part the blacks have zero interest in the game of Rugby. Footbal is the game they play. There are no whites playing in the Bafana squad but no one crys foul there.

This is a complete non story whipped up by the ANC.

The comment about soccer is why this is racist. As you say, there are almost no white players on the international soccer team and the sports or olympic councils are doing absolutely nothing about that. For me, sporting participation tends to stem from things your parents were into. When I was a kid my dad brought me to soccer, athletics, rugby and cricket and those were the games we played in the garden and then in organised sport. He wasn't interested in GAA or horse racing and I'm not interested in these sports now.

Nobody in Ireland is going around trying to impose quotas on the GAA because there aren't enough protestants playing and rightly so. The only thing that matters is that everybody has equal access to sports should they chose to play. In South Africa, all you need is a shorts and a shirt (you don't even need boots!).

[Dave Cahill]

In South Africa the blacks and the coloured hate each other more then they hate the whites and they both hate economic immigrants more then anyone. All whipped up by the ANC. Its a horrible degenerite hole of a country. A cesspit of racial hatred and mistrust. I was there for the Lions tour. I would NEVER go back in a million years.

For the main part the blacks have zero interest in the game of Rugby. Footbal is the game they play. There are no whites playing in the Bafana squad but no one crys foul there.

This is a complete non story whipped up by the ANC.

The comment about soccer is why this is racist. As you say, there are almost no white players on the international soccer team and the sports or olympic councils are doing absolutely nothing about that. For me, sporting participation tends to stem from things your parents were into. When I was a kid my dad brought me to soccer, athletics, rugby and cricket and those were the games we played in the garden and then in organised sport. He wasn't interested in GAA or horse racing and I'm not interested in these sports now.

Nobody in Ireland is going around trying to impose quotas on the GAA because there aren't enough protestants playing and rightly so. The only thing that matters is that everybody has equal access to sports should they chose to play. In South Africa, all you need is a shorts and a shirt (you don't even need boots!).

There almost isn't a single accurate sentence in that post! Firstly, protestant participation to GAA is far in excess of their numbers in the general population in Ireland and has always been, both on and off the pitch. From Sam Maguire to Jack Boothman, protestants have been some of the most ardent and bigoted Gaels.

Secondly, the representation of white players on the National team in South Africa is pretty much in line with their prevalence in the professional game in the country and overseas as an entirety. Some selections a little more, some a little less. But its not a big deal because the big difference is that Soccer wasn't the game of choice of the racist the way Rugby was - so with all the brain dead okes chasing eggs and its populist nature as a sport, apartheid never really took hold in south african soccer - simply because aside from anything, enough whites weren't interested in the game to actually have something to be apart from, and as a professional sport the colour of ones money was far more important than the colour of ones skin. Complaining about the lack of whites in South Africa soccer is like complaining about the level of eskimo participation in road bowling.

Thirdly the current captain of Bafana Bafana is white!