When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
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- Mullet
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When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
When was the last time Ireland fielded a complete row of non Irish players. Although of Irish extraction, Bent hardly grew up dreaming of playing for Ireland and packing down with fellow imports Strauss and White.
Throw in Payne and Boss and 5 of the Md23 and indeed for a five minute period yesterday five of the Irish 15 were imports
Throw in Payne and Boss and 5 of the Md23 and indeed for a five minute period yesterday five of the Irish 15 were imports
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
Sadly international rugby is nearly dead.
For years we have slated the all blacks for fielding islanders, and now we are worse.
Ireland like any club, are actively signing players with the purpose of having them wear green.
I think on here, national pride takes second place to success, which Imo is sad.
For years we have slated the all blacks for fielding islanders, and now we are worse.
Ireland like any club, are actively signing players with the purpose of having them wear green.
I think on here, national pride takes second place to success, which Imo is sad.
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
By "on here" you mean international rugby in general, yeah?munster#1 wrote:Sadly international rugby is nearly dead.
For years we have slated the all blacks for fielding islanders, and now we are worse.
Ireland like any club, are actively signing players with the purpose of having them wear green.
I think on here, national pride takes second place to success, which Imo is sad.
Until there's a rule change that's the way it's going to be. Personally I think it should be based on citizenship.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
No, by on here I mean this forum.Peg Leg wrote:By "on here" you mean international rugby in general, yeah?munster#1 wrote:Sadly international rugby is nearly dead.
For years we have slated the all blacks for fielding islanders, and now we are worse.
Ireland like any club, are actively signing players with the purpose of having them wear green.
I think on here, national pride takes second place to success, which Imo is sad.
Until there's a rule change that's the way it's going to be. Personally I think it should be based on citizenship.
Granted Ireland are playing by the rules, but we are without doubt one of the worst offenders within the current rules.
I understand that until there is a rule change, that thats the way it will be, but that does not make it right.
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
The rules are changing.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
I think the squad for the WC will have whatDave Cahill wrote:Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.
Strauss, Boss, Payne and possibly Bent/White
Sotland have cusack, dell, nel,cowan, strauss, nmaitland,seymour and visser in their 46 man squad
Its an issue that affects every country, but the smaller ones will obviously be more likely to take advantage - its obviously also a carrot when trying to compete with French and English clubs for signing
Its a difficult one and there probably needs to be changes -this whole idea of project players doesn'tsit too well with me but neither does the idea of players playting straight off a plane
Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.
Maybe first generation Ie parents nationality allows you to qualify immediately. grandparents you have to have3 years residency as well, no ties - 4/5 year residency
I would have no issue with the likes of Boss - wasn't goping to make it in NZ - was qualified and has committed over here - 10 years I think he is here now. Bundee Aki by contrast was desperate - felt he wasn't going to get there in NZ (not that he gave it much time) was talking about playing for Ireland before he even left, and also talked about how he could always go back if it didn't work out and play for Samoa
Its a bit messed up but not really a big deal I don't think - doies need to be tightened up thpough
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
Boss and Bent are qualified by birth though, they are, in fact, Irish. When you start to get into trying to decide if someone is Irish enough, then you are - if not in then at least looking over a fence at - some pretty dodgy territory.Golf Man wrote:I think the squad for the WC will have whatDave Cahill wrote:Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.
Strauss, Boss, Payne and possibly Bent/White
Sotland have cusack, dell, nel,cowan, strauss, nmaitland,seymour and visser in their 46 man squad
Its an issue that affects every country, but the smaller ones will obviously be more likely to take advantage - its obviously also a carrot when trying to compete with French and English clubs for signing
Its a difficult one and there probably needs to be changes -this whole idea of project players doesn'tsit too well with me but neither does the idea of players playting straight off a plane
Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.
Maybe first generation Ie parents nationality allows you to qualify immediately. grandparents you have to have3 years residency as well, no ties - 4/5 year residency
I would have no issue with the likes of Boss - wasn't goping to make it in NZ - was qualified and has committed over here - 10 years I think he is here now. Bundee Aki by contrast was desperate - felt he wasn't going to get there in NZ (not that he gave it much time) was talking about playing for Ireland before he even left, and also talked about how he could always go back if it didn't work out and play for Samoa
Its a bit messed up but not really a big deal I don't think - doies need to be tightened up thpough
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
I don't know - sure its hard to argue with the concept that a citizen qualifies to play, but in cases where its a grandmother/grandfather and there is not necessairily any link with the Irishness - it can be just a badge o convenience. This whole ideaof coming straight into a national squad wen you haven't even been in the country before doesn't sit well with me. At least the residency guys have to commit to rugby here. I think it needs to be tightened up a bit but its not going away - and tbh it shouldn't - people move around all the time,doesn't mean that can't commit to coutries other than their birth countriesDave Cahill wrote:Boss and Bent are qualified by birth though, they are, in fact, Irish. When you start to get into trying to decide if someone is Irish enough, then you are - if not in then at least looking over a fence at - some pretty dodgy territory.Golf Man wrote:I think the squad for the WC will have whatDave Cahill wrote:Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.
Strauss, Boss, Payne and possibly Bent/White
Sotland have cusack, dell, nel,cowan, strauss, nmaitland,seymour and visser in their 46 man squad
Its an issue that affects every country, but the smaller ones will obviously be more likely to take advantage - its obviously also a carrot when trying to compete with French and English clubs for signing
Its a difficult one and there probably needs to be changes -this whole idea of project players doesn'tsit too well with me but neither does the idea of players playting straight off a plane
Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.
Maybe first generation Ie parents nationality allows you to qualify immediately. grandparents you have to have3 years residency as well, no ties - 4/5 year residency
I would have no issue with the likes of Boss - wasn't goping to make it in NZ - was qualified and has committed over here - 10 years I think he is here now. Bundee Aki by contrast was desperate - felt he wasn't going to get there in NZ (not that he gave it much time) was talking about playing for Ireland before he even left, and also talked about how he could always go back if it didn't work out and play for Samoa
Its a bit messed up but not really a big deal I don't think - doies need to be tightened up thpough
Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
You mention 4/5 years being a suitable time period to qualify.Golf Man wrote:I think the squad for the WC will have whatDave Cahill wrote:Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.
Strauss, Boss, Payne and possibly Bent/White
Sotland have cusack, dell, nel,cowan, strauss, nmaitland,seymour and visser in their 46 man squad
Its an issue that affects every country, but the smaller ones will obviously be more likely to take advantage - its obviously also a carrot when trying to compete with French and English clubs for signing
Its a difficult one and there probably needs to be changes -this whole idea of project players doesn'tsit too well with me but neither does the idea of players playting straight off a plane
Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.
Maybe first generation Ie parents nationality allows you to qualify immediately. grandparents you have to have3 years residency as well, no ties - 4/5 year residency
I would have no issue with the likes of Boss - wasn't goping to make it in NZ - was qualified and has committed over here - 10 years I think he is here now. Bundee Aki by contrast was desperate - felt he wasn't going to get there in NZ (not that he gave it much time) was talking about playing for Ireland before he even left, and also talked about how he could always go back if it didn't work out and play for Samoa
Its a bit messed up but not really a big deal I don't think - doies need to be tightened up thpough
Strauss has lived here 6 years. Payne and White 4 years. Bent (who has grandparents) has lived here for 3. Boss for 10 years.
All the players have passed your makey-uppy criteria, what's your problem with? Their accent?
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
But has that badge of convenience thing ever really happened? I can't really think of a guy who qualifed on parentage who didn't give as much as the average 'native born' (horrendous phrase but anyway) player. Maggs, Geoghaghan, Staples, Henderson, Boss all have given great service to Irish rugby, Bent has taken dogs abuse over the last few years, yet there he is, ploughing away and there are many many others.Golf Man wrote: I don't know - sure its hard to argue with the concept that a citizen qualifies to play, but in cases where its a grandmother/grandfather and there is not necessairily any link with the Irishness - it can be just a badge o convenience. This whole ideaof coming straight into a national squad wen you haven't even been in the country before doesn't sit well with me. At least the residency guys have to commit to rugby here. I think it needs to be tightened up a bit but its not going away - and tbh it shouldn't - people move around all the time,doesn't mean that can't commit to coutries other than their birth countries
The weird thing is that the concept of playing for 'your country' is a relatively recent one in Rugby and is basically an import from Soccer. There was never any kind of residency/citizenship/whatever requirement in rugby until the Scots and the Welsh started taking the piss. To play for a country all that was required was to be selected for that country. Unions would generally (though not always) limit their selections to guys either from or living in their area, but that was just out of manners basically.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
Spot on DaveDave Cahill wrote:But has that badge of convenience thing ever really happened? I can't really think of a guy who qualifed on parentage who didn't give as much as the average 'native born' (horrendous phrase but anyway) player. Maggs, Geoghaghan, Staples, Henderson, Boss all have given great service to Irish rugby, Bent has taken dogs abuse over the last few years, yet there he is, ploughing away and there are many many others.Golf Man wrote: I don't know - sure its hard to argue with the concept that a citizen qualifies to play, but in cases where its a grandmother/grandfather and there is not necessairily any link with the Irishness - it can be just a badge o convenience. This whole ideaof coming straight into a national squad wen you haven't even been in the country before doesn't sit well with me. At least the residency guys have to commit to rugby here. I think it needs to be tightened up a bit but its not going away - and tbh it shouldn't - people move around all the time,doesn't mean that can't commit to coutries other than their birth countries
The weird thing is that the concept of playing for 'your country' is a relatively recent one in Rugby and is basically an import from Soccer. There was never any kind of residency/citizenship/whatever requirement in rugby until the Scots and the Welsh started taking the piss. To play for a country all that was required was to be selected for that country. Unions would generally (though not always) limit their selections to guys either from or living in their area, but that was just out of manners basically.
We also never had a problem with guys living in and playing for clubs in England flying back to represent the IRFU at international level.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
Here is how I see it. Strauss sang along to every word of Amhrán na bhFiann. And every player not Irish by birth sang along to Ireland Call. For me they are Irish.
I don't want this to seem like a Republican manifesto. But I think if someone stands there and belts out our National Anthem while wearing our countries jersey, they are Irish
I don't want this to seem like a Republican manifesto. But I think if someone stands there and belts out our National Anthem while wearing our countries jersey, they are Irish
He's gotten awfully fond of that brick
Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
F**king idiotic post completely missing the pointChrisUppy wrote: You mention 4/5 years being a suitable time period to qualify.
Strauss has lived here 6 years. Payne and White 4 years. Bent (who has grandparents) has lived here for 3. Boss for 10 years.
All the players have passed your makey-uppy criteria, what's your problem with? Their accent?
The point is on the rules, not on the players in the squad
Nationality: Players can play for a country that they have no allegiance to, no link to and have never been in, because a grandparent was born there - that does not sit well with me
Residency: 3 years residency makes them eligible - I don't really have a problem with this but it is abused - wouldyou be in favour of Leinster identifying an 16 year old Fiian and moving them over here with a promise of international rugby at 19? Or should they get into a bidding war with Wales and Scotland for the same player?
The criteria at the minute are makey uppy - three years is entirely arbitrary
As for your ignorance regarding my "problem"
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
I can see why this wouldn't sit well but if someone is entitled to a passport should they not be entitled to represent the country?Golf Man wrote:Nationality: Players can play for a country that they have no allegiance to, no link to and have never been in, because a grandparent was born there - that does not sit well with me
If we were looking at a situation where lads were being flown in ahead of local players that were as good as or better than the ringers I'd be more annoyed about it but I don't think that's the case. I don't think anyone could attribute Ireland's recent rugby success to a clever recruitment policy.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
So what?Golf Man wrote: Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
in our geopolitical situation its a very big what - basing it purely on citizenship would mean than any Scottish, Welsh or English play would be eligible for selectionPeg Leg wrote:So what?Golf Man wrote: Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
Golf Man wrote: This whole ideaof coming straight into a national squad wen you haven't even been in the country before doesn't sit well with me.
Who cares if they've never been there! My Da was a Spanish sailor and therefore I should qualify to play for Spain even though I've never been.
At least the residency guys have to commit to rugby here. I think it needs to be tightened up a bit but its not going away - and tbh it shouldn't - people move around all the time,doesn't mean that can't commit to coutries other than their birth countries
No one said birth countries, but I think you have this the wrong way around. I find it reprehensible that the provincial scouts are poking around training grounds looking to offer someone a provincial contract, with an international cap as a carrot.
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Re: When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......
Pretty sure that you are not entitled to a passport upon gaining residency. I have many foreign national friends, and the process for gaining a passport has taken them about 7 years.Broken Wing wrote:I can see why this wouldn't sit well but if someone is entitled to a passport should they not be entitled to represent the country?Golf Man wrote:Nationality: Players can play for a country that they have no allegiance to, no link to and have never been in, because a grandparent was born there - that does not sit well with me
If we were looking at a situation where lads were being flown in ahead of local players that were as good as or better than the ringers I'd be more annoyed about it but I don't think that's the case. I don't think anyone could attribute Ireland's recent rugby success to a clever recruitment policy.
AFAIK you cannot apply for citizenship for five years, which Imo should be the rule for playing for another nation.
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