When was the last time ( if ever) that Ireland......

[All Blacks nil]

When was the last time Ireland fielded a complete row of non Irish players. Although of Irish extraction, Bent hardly grew up dreaming of playing for Ireland and packing down with fellow imports Strauss and White.

Throw in Payne and Boss and 5 of the Md23 and indeed for a five minute period yesterday five of the Irish 15 were imports

[simonokeeffe]

[munster#1]

Sadly international rugby is nearly dead.

For years we have slated the all blacks for fielding islanders, and now we are worse.

Ireland like any club, are actively signing players with the purpose of having them wear green.

I think on here, national pride takes second place to success, which Imo is sad.

[Peg Leg]

Sadly international rugby is nearly dead.

For years we have slated the all blacks for fielding islanders, and now we are worse.

Ireland like any club, are actively signing players with the purpose of having them wear green.

I think on here, national pride takes second place to success, which Imo is sad.

By "on here" you mean international rugby in general, yeah?

Until there's a rule change that's the way it's going to be. Personally I think it should be based on citizenship.

[munster#1]

Sadly international rugby is nearly dead.

For years we have slated the all blacks for fielding islanders, and now we are worse.

Ireland like any club, are actively signing players with the purpose of having them wear green.

I think on here, national pride takes second place to success, which Imo is sad.

By "on here" you mean international rugby in general, yeah?

Until there's a rule change that's the way it's going to be. Personally I think it should be based on citizenship.

No, by on here I mean this forum.

Granted Ireland are playing by the rules, but we are without doubt one of the worst offenders within the current rules.

I understand that until there is a rule change, that thats the way it will be, but that does not make it right.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The rules are changing.

[Dave Cahill]

Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.

[Golf Man]

Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.

I think the squad for the WC will have what
Strauss, Boss, Payne and possibly Bent/White

Sotland have cusack, dell, nel,cowan, strauss, nmaitland,seymour and visser in their 46 man squad

Its an issue that affects every country, but the smaller ones will obviously be more likely to take advantage - its obviously also a carrot when trying to compete with French and English clubs for signing

Its a difficult one and there probably needs to be changes -this whole idea of project players doesn'tsit too well with me but neither does the idea of players playting straight off a plane
Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.

Maybe first generation Ie parents nationality allows you to qualify immediately. grandparents you have to have3 years residency as well, no ties - 4/5 year residency

I would have no issue with the likes of Boss - wasn't goping to make it in NZ - was qualified and has committed over here - 10 years I think he is here now. Bundee Aki by contrast was desperate - felt he wasn't going to get there in NZ (not that he gave it much time) was talking about playing for Ireland before he even left, and also talked about how he could always go back if it didn't work out and play for Samoa

Its a bit messed up but not really a big deal I don't think - doies need to be tightened up thpough

[Dave Cahill]

Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.

I think the squad for the WC will have what
Strauss, Boss, Payne and possibly Bent/White

Sotland have cusack, dell, nel,cowan, strauss, nmaitland,seymour and visser in their 46 man squad

Its an issue that affects every country, but the smaller ones will obviously be more likely to take advantage - its obviously also a carrot when trying to compete with French and English clubs for signing

Its a difficult one and there probably needs to be changes -this whole idea of project players doesn'tsit too well with me but neither does the idea of players playting straight off a plane
Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.

Maybe first generation Ie parents nationality allows you to qualify immediately. grandparents you have to have3 years residency as well, no ties - 4/5 year residency

I would have no issue with the likes of Boss - wasn't goping to make it in NZ - was qualified and has committed over here - 10 years I think he is here now. Bundee Aki by contrast was desperate - felt he wasn't going to get there in NZ (not that he gave it much time) was talking about playing for Ireland before he even left, and also talked about how he could always go back if it didn't work out and play for Samoa

Its a bit messed up but not really a big deal I don't think - doies need to be tightened up thpough

Boss and Bent are qualified by birth though, they are, in fact, Irish. When you start to get into trying to decide if someone is Irish enough, then you are - if not in then at least looking over a fence at - some pretty dodgy territory.

[Golf Man]

Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.

I think the squad for the WC will have what
Strauss, Boss, Payne and possibly Bent/White

Sotland have cusack, dell, nel,cowan, strauss, nmaitland,seymour and visser in their 46 man squad

Its an issue that affects every country, but the smaller ones will obviously be more likely to take advantage - its obviously also a carrot when trying to compete with French and English clubs for signing

Its a difficult one and there probably needs to be changes -this whole idea of project players doesn'tsit too well with me but neither does the idea of players playting straight off a plane
Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.

Maybe first generation Ie parents nationality allows you to qualify immediately. grandparents you have to have3 years residency as well, no ties - 4/5 year residency

I would have no issue with the likes of Boss - wasn't goping to make it in NZ - was qualified and has committed over here - 10 years I think he is here now. Bundee Aki by contrast was desperate - felt he wasn't going to get there in NZ (not that he gave it much time) was talking about playing for Ireland before he even left, and also talked about how he could always go back if it didn't work out and play for Samoa

Its a bit messed up but not really a big deal I don't think - doies need to be tightened up thpough

Boss and Bent are qualified by birth though, they are, in fact, Irish. When you start to get into trying to decide if someone is Irish enough, then you are - if not in then at least looking over a fence at - some pretty dodgy territory.

I don't know - sure its hard to argue with the concept that a citizen qualifies to play, but in cases where its a grandmother/grandfather and there is not necessairily any link with the Irishness - it can be just a badge o convenience. This whole ideaof coming straight into a national squad wen you haven't even been in the country before doesn't sit well with me. At least the residency guys have to commit to rugby here. I think it needs to be tightened up a bit but its not going away - and tbh it shouldn't - people move around all the time,doesn't mean that can't commit to coutries other than their birth countries

[ChrisUppy]

Ireland, during the entire 6 Nations, used two 'not qualified by birth' players - and one of those was a sub for one match only.

I think the squad for the WC will have what
Strauss, Boss, Payne and possibly Bent/White

Sotland have cusack, dell, nel,cowan, strauss, nmaitland,seymour and visser in their 46 man squad

Its an issue that affects every country, but the smaller ones will obviously be more likely to take advantage - its obviously also a carrot when trying to compete with French and English clubs for signing

Its a difficult one and there probably needs to be changes -this whole idea of project players doesn'tsit too well with me but neither does the idea of players playting straight off a plane
Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.

Maybe first generation Ie parents nationality allows you to qualify immediately. grandparents you have to have3 years residency as well, no ties - 4/5 year residency

I would have no issue with the likes of Boss - wasn't goping to make it in NZ - was qualified and has committed over here - 10 years I think he is here now. Bundee Aki by contrast was desperate - felt he wasn't going to get there in NZ (not that he gave it much time) was talking about playing for Ireland before he even left, and also talked about how he could always go back if it didn't work out and play for Samoa

Its a bit messed up but not really a big deal I don't think - doies need to be tightened up thpough

You mention 4/5 years being a suitable time period to qualify.

Strauss has lived here 6 years. Payne and White 4 years. Bent (who has grandparents) has lived here for 3. Boss for 10 years.

All the players have passed your makey-uppy criteria, what's your problem with? Their accent?

[Dave Cahill]

I don't know - sure its hard to argue with the concept that a citizen qualifies to play, but in cases where its a grandmother/grandfather and there is not necessairily any link with the Irishness - it can be just a badge o convenience. This whole ideaof coming straight into a national squad wen you haven't even been in the country before doesn't sit well with me. At least the residency guys have to commit to rugby here. I think it needs to be tightened up a bit but its not going away - and tbh it shouldn't - people move around all the time,doesn't mean that can't commit to coutries other than their birth countries

But has that badge of convenience thing ever really happened? I can't really think of a guy who qualifed on parentage who didn't give as much as the average 'native born' (horrendous phrase but anyway) player. Maggs, Geoghaghan, Staples, Henderson, Boss all have given great service to Irish rugby, Bent has taken dogs abuse over the last few years, yet there he is, ploughing away and there are many many others.

The weird thing is that the concept of playing for 'your country' is a relatively recent one in Rugby and is basically an import from Soccer. There was never any kind of residency/citizenship/whatever requirement in rugby until the Scots and the Welsh started taking the piss. To play for a country all that was required was to be selected for that country. Unions would generally (though not always) limit their selections to guys either from or living in their area, but that was just out of manners basically.

[olaf the fat]

I don't know - sure its hard to argue with the concept that a citizen qualifies to play, but in cases where its a grandmother/grandfather and there is not necessairily any link with the Irishness - it can be just a badge o convenience. This whole ideaof coming straight into a national squad wen you haven't even been in the country before doesn't sit well with me. At least the residency guys have to commit to rugby here. I think it needs to be tightened up a bit but its not going away - and tbh it shouldn't - people move around all the time,doesn't mean that can't commit to coutries other than their birth countries

But has that badge of convenience thing ever really happened? I can't really think of a guy who qualifed on parentage who didn't give as much as the average 'native born' (horrendous phrase but anyway) player. Maggs, Geoghaghan, Staples, Henderson, Boss all have given great service to Irish rugby, Bent has taken dogs abuse over the last few years, yet there he is, ploughing away and there are many many others.

The weird thing is that the concept of playing for 'your country' is a relatively recent one in Rugby and is basically an import from Soccer. There was never any kind of residency/citizenship/whatever requirement in rugby until the Scots and the Welsh started taking the piss. To play for a country all that was required was to be selected for that country. Unions would generally (though not always) limit their selections to guys either from or living in their area, but that was just out of manners basically.

Spot on Dave
We also never had a problem with guys living in and playing for clubs in England flying back to represent the IRFU at international level.

[arsebiscuits1]

Here is how I see it. Strauss sang along to every word of Amhrán na bhFiann. And every player not Irish by birth sang along to Ireland Call. For me they are Irish.

I don't want this to seem like a Republican manifesto. But I think if someone stands there and belts out our National Anthem while wearing our countries jersey, they are Irish

[Golf Man]

You mention 4/5 years being a suitable time period to qualify.

Strauss has lived here 6 years. Payne and White 4 years. Bent (who has grandparents) has lived here for 3. Boss for 10 years.

All the players have passed your makey-uppy criteria, what's your problem with? Their accent?

F**king idiotic post completely missing the point

The point is on the rules, not on the players in the squad

Nationality: Players can play for a country that they have no allegiance to, no link to and have never been in, because a grandparent was born there - that does not sit well with me

Residency: 3 years residency makes them eligible - I don't really have a problem with this but it is abused - wouldyou be in favour of Leinster identifying an 16 year old Fiian and moving them over here with a promise of international rugby at 19? Or should they get into a bidding war with Wales and Scotland for the same player?

The criteria at the minute are makey uppy - three years is entirely arbitrary

As for your ignorance regarding my "problem"

[Broken Wing]

Nationality: Players can play for a country that they have no allegiance to, no link to and have never been in, because a grandparent was born there - that does not sit well with me

I can see why this wouldn't sit well but if someone is entitled to a passport should they not be entitled to represent the country?

If we were looking at a situation where lads were being flown in ahead of local players that were as good as or better than the ringers I'd be more annoyed about it but I don't think that's the case. I don't think anyone could attribute Ireland's recent rugby success to a clever recruitment policy.

[Peg Leg]

Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.

So what?

[Dave Cahill]

Can't be based on citizenship as different countrie shave different rules regarding that.

So what?

in our geopolitical situation its a very big what - basing it purely on citizenship would mean than any Scottish, Welsh or English play would be eligible for selection

[Peg Leg]

This whole ideaof coming straight into a national squad wen you haven't even been in the country before doesn't sit well with me.

Who cares if they've never been there! My Da was a Spanish sailor and therefore I should qualify to play for Spain even though I've never been.


At least the residency guys have to commit to rugby here. I think it needs to be tightened up a bit but its not going away - and tbh it shouldn't - people move around all the time,doesn't mean that can't commit to coutries other than their birth countries

No one said birth countries, but I think you have this the wrong way around. I find it reprehensible that the provincial scouts are poking around training grounds looking to offer someone a provincial contract, with an international cap as a carrot.

[munster#1]

Nationality: Players can play for a country that they have no allegiance to, no link to and have never been in, because a grandparent was born there - that does not sit well with me

I can see why this wouldn't sit well but if someone is entitled to a passport should they not be entitled to represent the country?

If we were looking at a situation where lads were being flown in ahead of local players that were as good as or better than the ringers I'd be more annoyed about it but I don't think that's the case. I don't think anyone could attribute Ireland's recent rugby success to a clever recruitment policy.

Pretty sure that you are not entitled to a passport upon gaining residency. I have many foreign national friends, and the process for gaining a passport has taken them about 7 years.

AFAIK you cannot apply for citizenship for five years, which Imo should be the rule for playing for another nation.