With squads starting to be announced was thinking about likely composition.
On basis that Healy, Moore, and Trimble fit would pick the following:-
15)R.Kearney 14)Bowe, 13)Payne 12)Henshaw 11)Trimble 10)Sexton 9)Murray 1)Healy 2)Best 3)Ross 4)Toner 5)O'Connell (captain) 6)O'Mahoney 7)O'Brien, No8) Heaslip
16)Cronin 17)Mc Grath 18)Moore 19)Henderson 20)Henry 21)Reddan 22) Madigan 23)Earls
24)Strauss 25)White 26)Donn Ryan 27)Murphy 28)Marmion 29)Jackson 30)Fitzgerald 31)D.Kearney
That would leave Jones, Zebo, Gilroy, Mc Fadden, Cave, Darcy, Reid, Keatley, Boss, Kilcoyne, Bent, Furlong, Herring, Tuohy, Conan on Stand By.
Our best ever squad but watching France demolish England tonight in scrum & line out and at breakdown it is going to be a huge task. Especially think Slimani at tight head is improving all the time.
31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
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SingaporeExile
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Very little to disagree with here.
On the basis that all are fit the starting XV vs France should be:
15) R Kearney 14) T Bowe 13) J Payne 12) R Henshaw 11) S Zebo 10) J Sexton 9) C Murray
J Heaslip 7) S O'Brien 6) P O'Mahony 5) P O'Connell (c) 4) D Toner 3) M Ross 2) R Best 1) C Healy
Subs Bench:
16) S Cronin 17 J McGrath 18) M Moore 19) I Henderson 20) J Murphy 21) E Reddan 22) I Madigan 23) K Earls
Also travelling:
24) R Strauss 25) D Kilcoyne 26) N White 27) D Ryan 28) C Henry 29) A Trimble 30) F Jones 31) P Jackson
I guess my main quibble with Matt's squad above is that you've got 5 props, but instead of 2 THs, 2 LHs and one ambi-prop, you have 3 THs and 2 LHs, which I think is odd unless you're asking Nathan White to cover both sides of the scrum, which to my knowledge he is not capable of doing. I can't justify taking Luke Fitzgerald and Dave Kearney, neither of whom have really hit the heights in the national setup- Dave is a solid player who won't let you down, but hardly a man you'd back to turn the game on its head if you were a few points down in the last few minutes of a semi final, say. Fitzgerald played poorly last time out, as did Bowe, but the latter's pedigree speaks for itself - Fitzgerald hasn't cut the mustard for Ireland in yonks. I also fail to see the need to bring a third scrum half - in RWC 2011 Boss played 60 nonessential minutes against Russia, and should the worst come to the worst, a replacement can be flown over at short notice given the tournament's proximity. All the same, I'd be happy enough if we took a squad resembling yours, as you say Ireland have rarely been in such a strong position heading into a World Cup. I wouldn't worry too much about the French to be honest; yes they have a knack for turning up on the day in such tournaments, but we'll never be as poor as England were in Paris. They haven't played that badly since Lancaster took over in my opinion, yet they came within a score of snatching the match, and I would suggest that they might have pulled it off had Cipriani been introduced even 5-10 minutes earlier.
On the basis that all are fit the starting XV vs France should be:
15) R Kearney 14) T Bowe 13) J Payne 12) R Henshaw 11) S Zebo 10) J Sexton 9) C Murray
J Heaslip 7) S O'Brien 6) P O'Mahony 5) P O'Connell (c) 4) D Toner 3) M Ross 2) R Best 1) C HealySubs Bench:
16) S Cronin 17 J McGrath 18) M Moore 19) I Henderson 20) J Murphy 21) E Reddan 22) I Madigan 23) K Earls
Also travelling:
24) R Strauss 25) D Kilcoyne 26) N White 27) D Ryan 28) C Henry 29) A Trimble 30) F Jones 31) P Jackson
I guess my main quibble with Matt's squad above is that you've got 5 props, but instead of 2 THs, 2 LHs and one ambi-prop, you have 3 THs and 2 LHs, which I think is odd unless you're asking Nathan White to cover both sides of the scrum, which to my knowledge he is not capable of doing. I can't justify taking Luke Fitzgerald and Dave Kearney, neither of whom have really hit the heights in the national setup- Dave is a solid player who won't let you down, but hardly a man you'd back to turn the game on its head if you were a few points down in the last few minutes of a semi final, say. Fitzgerald played poorly last time out, as did Bowe, but the latter's pedigree speaks for itself - Fitzgerald hasn't cut the mustard for Ireland in yonks. I also fail to see the need to bring a third scrum half - in RWC 2011 Boss played 60 nonessential minutes against Russia, and should the worst come to the worst, a replacement can be flown over at short notice given the tournament's proximity. All the same, I'd be happy enough if we took a squad resembling yours, as you say Ireland have rarely been in such a strong position heading into a World Cup. I wouldn't worry too much about the French to be honest; yes they have a knack for turning up on the day in such tournaments, but we'll never be as poor as England were in Paris. They haven't played that badly since Lancaster took over in my opinion, yet they came within a score of snatching the match, and I would suggest that they might have pulled it off had Cipriani been introduced even 5-10 minutes earlier.
Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Assuming the fitness of players who may be touch and go at the moment, the squad I would go with would be:
Hooker: Best, Cronin, Strauss
Prop: Healy, McGrath, Ross, Moore, Bent
Lock: O'Connell, Toner, Henderson, Ryan
Back-Row: Heaslip, O'Brien, O'Mahony, Henry, Murphy
Scrum-Half: Murray, Reddan, Boss
Out-Half: Sexton, Jackson
Centre: Henshaw, Payne, Madigan, Earls
Back-Three: R.Kearney, Bowe, Zebo, Trimble, Fitzgerald
17 Leinster
7 Ulster
5 Munster
1 Connacht
1 Toulon
Prop - Healy, McGrath, Ross and Moore all go as first and bench options respectively assuming all are fit. That leaves one spot for utility / back-up which I would give to Bent based on his versatility. Kilcoyne is a strong ball carrier and breakdown player but I wouldn't trust his scrummaging and Furlong is a bit green still, which leaves Bent who is a very solid loose-head and a competent tight-head if needed, as with much of the squad, versatility wins the day.
Hooker: Picks it's self.
Lock - Toner and O'Connell starters, Henderson and Ryan excellent back-up who can both play back-row if needed.
Back-row: Tommy O'Donnell was putting his hand up for inclusion and probably would have been a shoot out between himself, Chris Henry and Jordi Murphy for the last two spots in the back-row, but the injury makes it almost a self selecting position with Conan the man to miss out. Great to be in the squad but his world cup will be the next one.
Scrum-Half: Boss travels due to experience, but it's a shame he's still in the picture at this stage. World Cup comes a season too early for Marmion and McGrath, Cooney could be on the plane if he got the opportunities at Leinster over the last couple of seasons.
Out-Half: Jackson travels as Madigan is put in the centre category and versatility of having three options at 10 as well as scrum-half a big bonus, Madigan is bench option 10 ahead of Jackson though.
Centre: Very difficult to pick, of the four, perhaps only Henshaw could be considered a full-time centre, problem position for Ireland, although of the players who've played there along side Henshaw, they've done very well so far.
Back-three: Jones, McFadden, Dave Kearney and Craig Gilroy all miss out, but I don't think it can be argued that they are better quality than any of the players who are travelling.
Hooker: Best, Cronin, Strauss
Prop: Healy, McGrath, Ross, Moore, Bent
Lock: O'Connell, Toner, Henderson, Ryan
Back-Row: Heaslip, O'Brien, O'Mahony, Henry, Murphy
Scrum-Half: Murray, Reddan, Boss
Out-Half: Sexton, Jackson
Centre: Henshaw, Payne, Madigan, Earls
Back-Three: R.Kearney, Bowe, Zebo, Trimble, Fitzgerald
17 Leinster
7 Ulster
5 Munster
1 Connacht
1 Toulon
Prop - Healy, McGrath, Ross and Moore all go as first and bench options respectively assuming all are fit. That leaves one spot for utility / back-up which I would give to Bent based on his versatility. Kilcoyne is a strong ball carrier and breakdown player but I wouldn't trust his scrummaging and Furlong is a bit green still, which leaves Bent who is a very solid loose-head and a competent tight-head if needed, as with much of the squad, versatility wins the day.
Hooker: Picks it's self.
Lock - Toner and O'Connell starters, Henderson and Ryan excellent back-up who can both play back-row if needed.
Back-row: Tommy O'Donnell was putting his hand up for inclusion and probably would have been a shoot out between himself, Chris Henry and Jordi Murphy for the last two spots in the back-row, but the injury makes it almost a self selecting position with Conan the man to miss out. Great to be in the squad but his world cup will be the next one.
Scrum-Half: Boss travels due to experience, but it's a shame he's still in the picture at this stage. World Cup comes a season too early for Marmion and McGrath, Cooney could be on the plane if he got the opportunities at Leinster over the last couple of seasons.
Out-Half: Jackson travels as Madigan is put in the centre category and versatility of having three options at 10 as well as scrum-half a big bonus, Madigan is bench option 10 ahead of Jackson though.
Centre: Very difficult to pick, of the four, perhaps only Henshaw could be considered a full-time centre, problem position for Ireland, although of the players who've played there along side Henshaw, they've done very well so far.
Back-three: Jones, McFadden, Dave Kearney and Craig Gilroy all miss out, but I don't think it can be argued that they are better quality than any of the players who are travelling.
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Your squad is what will probably be picked - some of your reasoning is off though
bent looks like getting in - the sole basis for this is an ability to play both sides (completely untested on both sides at this level). There are several loose heads better than him and a good few tight heads as well. btw I get the reasoning
Jones may get left out but there is no way that zebo is a better fb than him - not even close at v this point in time
bent looks like getting in - the sole basis for this is an ability to play both sides (completely untested on both sides at this level). There are several loose heads better than him and a good few tight heads as well. btw I get the reasoning
Jones may get left out but there is no way that zebo is a better fb than him - not even close at v this point in time
Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
one gaping problem - no full back covermatt wrote:With squads starting to be announced was thinking about likely composition.
On basis that Healy, Moore, and Trimble fit would pick the following:-
15)R.Kearney 14)Bowe, 13)Payne 12)Henshaw 11)Trimble 10)Sexton 9)Murray 1)Healy 2)Best 3)Ross 4)Toner 5)O'Connell (captain) 6)O'Mahoney 7)O'Brien, No8) Heaslip
16)Cronin 17)Mc Grath 18)Moore 19)Henderson 20)Henry 21)Reddan 22) Madigan 23)Earls
24)Strauss 25)White 26)Donn Ryan 27)Murphy 28)Marmion 29)Jackson 30)Fitzgerald 31)D.Kearney
That would leave Jones, Zebo, Gilroy, Mc Fadden, Cave, Darcy, Reid, Keatley, Boss, Kilcoyne, Bent, Furlong, Herring, Tuohy, Conan on Stand By.
Our best ever squad but watching France demolish England tonight in scrum & line out and at breakdown it is going to be a huge task. Especially think Slimani at tight head is improving all the time.
also care to justify d Kearney over Jones or zebo?
Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
COYBIB I think if everyone fit 3 differences in our predicted selections are the most marginal calls & could go a number of ways.
1) White v Bent - Furlong & Kilcoyne also have a chance but I think 3 Tight Heads more important. A 50:50 call.
2) Marmion V Boss - Or Neither? Seeing as the tournament is in UK & Madigan could fill in short term as a sub could we bring both Dave Kearney & Zebo instead. Might be worth considering.
3) Dave Kearney v Zebo - Or both? I think DK will definitely go as he provides more certainty for JS especially with some form/injury doubts about Bowe & Trimble
1) White v Bent - Furlong & Kilcoyne also have a chance but I think 3 Tight Heads more important. A 50:50 call.
2) Marmion V Boss - Or Neither? Seeing as the tournament is in UK & Madigan could fill in short term as a sub could we bring both Dave Kearney & Zebo instead. Might be worth considering.
3) Dave Kearney v Zebo - Or both? I think DK will definitely go as he provides more certainty for JS especially with some form/injury doubts about Bowe & Trimble
Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Golf Man just saw your posts.
Re White/Bent/Kilcoyne/Furlong - I think Kilcoyne best player but likely to be on stand by as 3 Tight Heads/2 Loose most probably
Re cover at full back agree Jones would be best cover for RK but JS can only take 5 to 6 half backs & then 8 to 9 players covering 5 outside positions so Jones lack of versatility could see him lose out to DK/SZ/LF/KE.
Re White/Bent/Kilcoyne/Furlong - I think Kilcoyne best player but likely to be on stand by as 3 Tight Heads/2 Loose most probably
Re cover at full back agree Jones would be best cover for RK but JS can only take 5 to 6 half backs & then 8 to 9 players covering 5 outside positions so Jones lack of versatility could see him lose out to DK/SZ/LF/KE.
Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
I think all fit we are unlikely to see dk and Fitz travel. That would leave us very short at fullback as the likely losers are zebo and Jones.
It makes no sense to bring 4 out and out wingers, so we are likely to see one of dk and Fitz travel along with one of Jones and zebo.
Given that Fitz has done very little to justify taking a seat on the plane, I think we may well see dave k given a start to take his spot
It makes no sense to bring 4 out and out wingers, so we are likely to see one of dk and Fitz travel along with one of Jones and zebo.
Given that Fitz has done very little to justify taking a seat on the plane, I think we may well see dave k given a start to take his spot
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Good squadCOYBIB wrote:Assuming the fitness of players who may be touch and go at the moment, the squad I would go with would be:
Hooker: Best, Cronin, Strauss
Prop: Healy, McGrath, Ross, Moore, Bent
Lock: O'Connell, Toner, Henderson, Ryan
Back-Row: Heaslip, O'Brien, O'Mahony, Henry, Murphy
Scrum-Half: Murray, Reddan, Boss
Out-Half: Sexton, Jackson
Centre: Henshaw, Payne, Madigan, Earls
Back-Three: R.Kearney, Bowe, Zebo, Trimble, Fitzgerald
17 Leinster
7 Ulster
5 Munster
1 Connacht
1 Toulon
Prop - Healy, McGrath, Ross and Moore all go as first and bench options respectively assuming all are fit. That leaves one spot for utility / back-up which I would give to Bent based on his versatility. Kilcoyne is a strong ball carrier and breakdown player but I wouldn't trust his scrummaging and Furlong is a bit green still, which leaves Bent who is a very solid loose-head and a competent tight-head if needed, as with much of the squad, versatility wins the day.
Hooker: Picks it's self.
Lock - Toner and O'Connell starters, Henderson and Ryan excellent back-up who can both play back-row if needed.
Back-row: Tommy O'Donnell was putting his hand up for inclusion and probably would have been a shoot out between himself, Chris Henry and Jordi Murphy for the last two spots in the back-row, but the injury makes it almost a self selecting position with Conan the man to miss out. Great to be in the squad but his world cup will be the next one.
Scrum-Half: Boss travels due to experience, but it's a shame he's still in the picture at this stage. World Cup comes a season too early for Marmion and McGrath, Cooney could be on the plane if he got the opportunities at Leinster over the last couple of seasons.
Out-Half: Jackson travels as Madigan is put in the centre category and versatility of having three options at 10 as well as scrum-half a big bonus, Madigan is bench option 10 ahead of Jackson though.
Centre: Very difficult to pick, of the four, perhaps only Henshaw could be considered a full-time centre, problem position for Ireland, although of the players who've played there along side Henshaw, they've done very well so far.
Back-three: Jones, McFadden, Dave Kearney and Craig Gilroy all miss out, but I don't think it can be argued that they are better quality than any of the players who are travelling.
There is a very good chance that Cave will go as third SH instead of Boss. We need the midfield cover too.
If Bent doesnt go then a thirdTH will go.
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Actually Bent has been tested on both sides of the scrum. SA on his debut at TH and Wales at LH. The Welsh TH wasnt front line mind.Golf Man wrote:Your squad is what will probably be picked - some of your reasoning is off though
bent looks like getting in - the sole basis for this is an ability to play both sides (completely untested on both sides at this level). There are several loose heads better than him and a good few tight heads as well. btw I get the reasoning
Jones may get left out but there is no way that zebo is a better fb than him - not even close at v this point in time
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Why don't people see Payne as emergency full back cover? If you have Earls at 23, put him to centre and Payne to FB.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Healy
McGrath
Ross
Moore
Bent
Best
Strauss
Cronin
O’Connell
Toner
Henderson
Ryan
O’Mahoney
O’Brien
Murphy
Henry
Heaslip
Murray
Reddan
Boss
Sexton
Jackson
Madigan
Henshaw
Payne
Earls
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Trimble
D. Kearney
R. Kearney
I've pencilled in Dave Kearney based upon him being selected in 2014 for the Six Nations team ahead of the other options, but I could just as easily have pencilled in Felix Jones based upon his regular selection the season just passed. Less likely but it could go to McFadden or Zebo either. Ultimately, injuries notwithstanding, its the only position outstanding and to be honest I think that, this position aside, Joe has known his squad since April.
If Moore doesn't make it then White will come in and I wouldn't lose much sleep over that.
McGrath
Ross
Moore
Bent
Best
Strauss
Cronin
O’Connell
Toner
Henderson
Ryan
O’Mahoney
O’Brien
Murphy
Henry
Heaslip
Murray
Reddan
Boss
Sexton
Jackson
Madigan
Henshaw
Payne
Earls
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Trimble
D. Kearney
R. Kearney
I've pencilled in Dave Kearney based upon him being selected in 2014 for the Six Nations team ahead of the other options, but I could just as easily have pencilled in Felix Jones based upon his regular selection the season just passed. Less likely but it could go to McFadden or Zebo either. Ultimately, injuries notwithstanding, its the only position outstanding and to be honest I think that, this position aside, Joe has known his squad since April.
If Moore doesn't make it then White will come in and I wouldn't lose much sleep over that.
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
do you honestly believe 10 minutes 3 years ago and 30 mins against the Welsh 3rd choice are tests???paddyor wrote:Actually Bent has been tested on both sides of the scrum. SA on his debut at TH and Wales at LH. The Welsh TH wasnt front line mind.Golf Man wrote:Your squad is what will probably be picked - some of your reasoning is off though
bent looks like getting in - the sole basis for this is an ability to play both sides (completely untested on both sides at this level). There are several loose heads better than him and a good few tight heads as well. btw I get the reasoning
Jones may get left out but there is no way that zebo is a better fb than him - not even close at v this point in time
Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
that logic works really well apart from the fact that d Kearney was available in the 2015 6 nations and zebo bowe Fitz and Jones we re all picked ahead of himDave Cahill wrote:Healy
McGrath
Ross
Moore
Bent
Best
Strauss
Cronin
O’Connell
Toner
Henderson
Ryan
O’Mahoney
O’Brien
Murphy
Henry
Heaslip
Murray
Reddan
Boss
Sexton
Jackson
Madigan
Henshaw
Payne
Earls
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Trimble
D. Kearney
R. Kearney
I've pencilled in Dave Kearney based upon him being selected in 2014 for the Six Nations team ahead of the other options, but I could just as easily have pencilled in Felix Jones based upon his regular selection the season just passed. Less likely but it could go to McFadden or Zebo either. Ultimately, injuries notwithstanding, its the only position outstanding and to be honest I think that, this position aside, Joe has known his squad since April.
If Moore doesn't make it then White will come in and I wouldn't lose much sleep over that.
if all are fit and available d Kearney would be a dog of a selection - has done nothing to deserve it . ill assume it's awum
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Dave Cahill
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
No, he wasn't. He was injured against Wasps and missed the first two rounds with a shoulder injury.Golf Man wrote: that logic works really well apart from the fact that d Kearney was available in the 2015 6 nations
He may not have done a lot the season just gone to prove himself, but that season is over and if hes fit and going well in training the coach knows he can be trusted.
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
trusted to do what - I don't think anybody expects d Kearney to be starting - and he isn't flexible. imo he is against Fitz bowe trimble and McFadden for three wing specialist roles (zebo or Jones will go and Earls or cave)
aside from injury I'm not sure how Kearney gets ahead of the first three. They are schmidt favourites and have produced more for ireland than Kearney. performance in training will only go so far and when up against the likes of those 3 it won't count for much
aside from injury I'm not sure how Kearney gets ahead of the first three. They are schmidt favourites and have produced more for ireland than Kearney. performance in training will only go so far and when up against the likes of those 3 it won't count for much
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Munsterboy
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
I think D Kearney is in if he plays well against Wales (I expect him to start that game). Fitz may have played his way off the plane against Scotland and I don't think he'll get another chance if Trimble is fit to play this weekend. Joe has a lot of time for the two lads who helped win the 2014 6Ns and both made big impacts in their recent cameos.Dave Cahill wrote:Healy
McGrath
Ross
Moore
Bent
Best
Strauss
Cronin
O’Connell
Toner
Henderson
Ryan
O’Mahoney
O’Brien
Murphy
Henry
Heaslip
Murray
Reddan
Boss
Sexton
Jackson
Madigan
Henshaw
Payne
Earls
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Trimble
D. Kearney
R. Kearney
I've pencilled in Dave Kearney based upon him being selected in 2014 for the Six Nations team ahead of the other options, but I could just as easily have pencilled in Felix Jones based upon his regular selection the season just passed. Less likely but it could go to McFadden or Zebo either. Ultimately, injuries notwithstanding, its the only position outstanding and to be honest I think that, this position aside, Joe has known his squad since April.
If Moore doesn't make it then White will come in and I wouldn't lose much sleep over that.
Bowe is almost certainly in, as are R Kearney and Earls (as 13 cover). Class will out and all that.
Zebo was lucky enough to get a good run on the wing when Trimble went off and he did well. His selection at FB was his chance to nail down his place and he took it. Can't ignore the fact that, for all people say Joe doesn't like/trust him, he's played more minutes for Ireland in 2015 than any of his rivals. Jones and McFadden will be left at home on standby.
Boss was so poor against Scotland he may also have played himself out. Cave could benefit, or even Marmion. Would love to see the Connacht SH get 30 minutes against Wales to stake a claim but I doubt we will. You never know though.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
To do precisely what the coach wants. People sometimes forget that Schmidt is an absolute control freak - considerably more intense than O'Sullivan was. Hes also a process guy, its the means that determine the ends - there is virtually no off-the-cuff rugby played by any of Joe Schmidts teams.Golf Man wrote:trusted to do what
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simonokeeffe
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
not sure he'll get in and not sure I would have him in myself but he covers both wings definitely and probably fullback tooGolf Man wrote:trusted to do what - I don't think anybody expects d Kearney to be starting - and he isn't flexible. imo he is against Fitz bowe trimble and McFadden for three wing specialist roles (zebo or Jones will go and Earls or cave)
aside from injury I'm not sure how Kearney gets ahead of the first three. They are schmidt favourites and have produced more for ireland than Kearney. performance in training will only go so far and when up against the likes of those 3 it won't count for much
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: 31 Man Ireland RWC Squad
Because unfortunately it looks like Joe doesn't like to move people around if he can avoid it. I'd love to see it though, I'd say Earls would love running off Henshaw.CiaranIrl wrote:Why don't people see Payne as emergency full back cover? If you have Earls at 23, put him to centre and Payne to FB.