31 Man Ireland RWC Squad

[Xanthippe]

16 Leinster
7 Ulster
5 Munster
2 Connacht
and a Toulon

For those counting.

Forgot about that when I was 'counting my chickens' earlier today. I wrote down 6 Munsters!!!

[simonokeeffe]

The meeja have all jumped on the identical supposedly leaked squad which I think is just what ROC in Indo is guessing at, and bear in mind he said a few weeks ago we were taking 7 props

The squad trained today in Carton House so the journos know exactly who was there and who wasn't. This 'leaked' squad is based on first hand knowledge so is right unless he threw in one or two names in an attempt to pretend he was only guessing! Think IRFU fcuked up big time by not having the announcement today - no point in having the blasted thing now that we all know who's going.

suppose it depends on whether it was a closed session or not

[rookie]

If the leaked squad is correct, why is Luke Fitz selected?

[CiaranIrl]

If the leaked squad is correct, why is Luke Fitz selected?

Because he's better than the other options.

[Ruckedtobits]

Overall, the selection and announcement process has not been one of the highlights of JS term of office. Did new Performance Director have any input? For such a high profile appointment (with package rumoured to reflect that status), he has been spectacularly MIA throughout the process.

Our major games are from 4 weeks on, Italy, France etc. (he said hopefully), but mis-communication of Squad announcement smacks of some disatisfaction somewhere, which cannot be good for morale, including inside the Squad. Let's hope Joe reverts to his default style with media and public and tells it like it is from hereon out. Otherwise, we revert to Deccie-style communication with v. negative media response

[hugonaut]

can't credibly claim zebo didn't make a claim in the warm ups - scored in both his outings created one for Jones v Wales and proved his versatility

selection isn't going to go down solely on the last three games but on the last two years. In the back 3 where it's the really tight call I think Fitz will get in but shouldn't - hasn't a backbone of work for ireland since 2013. hasn't Benn overly impressive in warm ups hasn't convinced with versatility. same kind of goes for Earls but I think he has been better in the warm ups. DK has done well but should in no way be selected over bowe or trimble

In no way.... except on form

As Ceemec pointed out earlier, Earls was pretty poor at the weekend on the wing: he turned over the ball to the opposition four times [the most of anybody on the pitch] and made little impact when he managed to hang on to it. He also turned over the ball three times in the game in Cardiff – this time, just the second most often of any player on the pitch, because Eli Walker turned it over a whopping five times.

These are just things that happened – there's no statistical trickery or "leaving aside the time he did this, look at this etc." He had 16 possessions [K/P/R of 1/3/12] against Wales in the first game and turned it over 3 times; he also lit it up, did a load of really sharp things and deservedly won Man of the Match*. He had 9 [0/2/7] possessions in the second game and turned it over 4 times. Out of 25 possessions in the last two tests [130 mins of playing time], he's lost the ball 7 times – a 28% turnover in possession result.

As a counterpoint to that, in the two games Fitzgerald has played [147 mins on the pitch], he's had 30 possessions [2/3/12 vs Scotland and the aforementioned 1/1/11 against Wales] and has lost the ball twice – a 6.6% turnover in possession score.

Again, this is nothing esoteric. It's just using facts to help accurately show how players have actually performed over the last couple of games ... not how you want them to have performed.

My reading of it is that Earls is a higher risk/higher reward player than Fitzgerald, who is more reliable. Earls isn't as good a defender, is liable to give away the ball more often, but is quicker and has proven himself over a long period more likely to score tries [13 in 41 tests for Ireland, 35 in 110 competitive games for Munster as opposed to Fitzgerald's 3 in 30 games for Ireland and 32 in 141 games for Leinster]. Both of them are talented, both of them are super-fragile, neither of them are as good or as complete players as their cheerleaders make them out to be.

* In fairness to Fitzgerald, he didn't have the luxury of playing against a teenager making his international debut in his outing at centre. He actually had to play against a player who has played in a World Cup, won a Six Nations, captained his country and his region etc. Tyler Morgan is a 19 year old who has started all of 18 pro games in his entire career [15 if you exclude the second rate LV Cup]. You can only play who's in front of you and all that, but it's worth pointing out who that actually was.

[ChrisUppy]

There's nothing there for the Munster lads to be outraged at. Zebo & Earls both in, and no Bent ahead of Kilcoyne. They must be gutted.

You've got it all wrong. There are 16 Leinster players in the squad. There are 16 reasons for them to be outraged

[matt]

Disappointed Moore did not make it but Furlong is on the way up. Dan Tuohy potentially covering 9 players (second & back rows although Conan back row option) & likeliest forward to get called up as injury replacement esp as Henderson could end up in back row for JH or POM. Kilcoyne unlucky such competition at loose head but we may still need him as replacement.

No problem with 2 scrum halfs or Cave's selection. 3 Centres makes sense & Cave is best 12 cover although I got the impression he was going to lose out to Earls/Fitzgerald. Glad now he is there esp with Bastereaud & Fofana around.

Shocked at Trimble missing out. Ok if it is injury related but he provides a physicality & intelligence in the big games that we will miss. Jones came close too & I had a feeling he might be the one to benefit from 2 scrum halfs but again if RK gets injured Jones will be straight in at 15.

How many replacements are we likely to need. I'd say 3/4 if we get to QF & maybe 5 if we go further. We are going to have to win the physical battles as well as spotting the mismatches.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

With all the talk of who missed out etc, Healy being included as one of only two looseheads has gone under the radar a bit. It's great news in terms of him being in there and the confidence they must have in his fitness.

[Xanthippe]

Judging by Instagram posts it appears we can definitely move Jordi Murphy and Jamie Heaslip into the "In The Squad" column.

Naughty boys appear to have preempted IRFU's big reveal.

[rookie]

There's nothing there for the Munster lads to be outraged at. Zebo & Earls both in, and no Bent ahead of Kilcoyne. They must be gutted.

You've got it all wrong. There are 16 Leinster players in the squad. There are 16 reasons for them to be outraged

If the Irish coaching team think all 16 Leinster players deserve to be in the squad, then that's how it should be! What are you on about? Outrage?? Not everyone thinks like that! I'm a Munster fan and will behind everyone of those Leinster players, especially when i'm sitting in the west stand of the Millennium Stadium on October 11th roaring the team on!!

[hugonaut]

There's nothing there for the Munster lads to be outraged at. Zebo & Earls both in, and no Bent ahead of Kilcoyne. They must be gutted.

You've got it all wrong. There are 16 Leinster players in the squad. There are 16 reasons for them to be outraged

If the Irish coaching team think all 16 Leinster players deserve to be in the squad, then that's how it should be! What are you on about? Outrage?? Not everyone thinks like that! I'm a Munster fan and will behind everyone of those Leinster players, especially when i'm sitting in the west stand of the Millennium Stadium on October 11th roaring the team on!!

Shurely shome mishtake?

"Why are so many players selected from a side that have been shite for most of last season?"
by rookie
July 1st, 2015, 2:36 am

"If the leaked squad is correct, why is Luke Fitz selected?"
by rookie
August 31st, 2015, 10:22 pm

[CiaranIrl]

Disappointed Moore did not make it but Furlong is on the way up. Dan Tuohy potentially covering 9 players (second & back rows although Conan back row option) & likeliest forward to get called up as injury replacement esp as Henderson could end up in back row for JH or POM. Kilcoyne unlucky such competition at loose head but we may still need him as replacement.

No problem with 2 scrum halfs or Cave's selection. 3 Centres makes sense & Cave is best 12 cover although I got the impression he was going to lose out to Earls/Fitzgerald. Glad now he is there esp with Bastereaud & Fofana around.

Shocked at Trimble missing out. Ok if it is injury related but he provides a physicality & intelligence in the big games that we will miss. Jones came close too & I had a feeling he might be the one to benefit from 2 scrum halfs but again if RK gets injured Jones will be straight in at 15.

How many replacements are we likely to need. I'd say 3/4 if we get to QF & maybe 5 if we go further. We are going to have to win the physical battles as well as spotting the mismatches.

Word is that Trimble's foot flared up again after the Ulster match. I reckon he would have loved to pick Trimble, as well as Moore, but in the end, the clock just about beat them. Huge pity.

[Ruckedtobits]

If Trimble's omission is other than injury related, it is wrong call. However, Ulster cdentres like Marshall, McCluskey and Olding must be staring into the mirror wondering what do they have to do to put themselves in the frame. I would have been delighted to have any one of these three covering Henshaw and learning from Joe S and Les Kiss for last 8 and next 6 weeks.

Nathan White (originally signed by Leinster) sneaks in under radar and Tadge Furlong will benefit from environment. Leinster blessed to retain the benefit of Bent for LHP.

[Ruckedtobits]

Squad now official. IRFU announcement and RTE confirmation att 8.30 this morning. What a f**k-up!

[rookie]

You've got it all wrong. There are 16 Leinster players in the squad. There are 16 reasons for them to be outraged

If the Irish coaching team think all 16 Leinster players deserve to be in the squad, then that's how it should be! What are you on about? Outrage?? Not everyone thinks like that! I'm a Munster fan and will behind everyone of those Leinster players, especially when i'm sitting in the west stand of the Millennium Stadium on October 11th roaring the team on!!

Shurely shome mishtake?

"Why are so many players selected from a side that have been shite for most of last season?"
by rookie
July 1st, 2015, 2:36 am

"If the leaked squad is correct, why is Luke Fitz selected?"
by rookie
August 31st, 2015, 10:22 pm

Clearly, the ability to question and accept decisions is alien to you!

[Oldschool]

If Trimble's omission is other than injury related, it is wrong call. However, Ulster cdentres like Marshall, McCluskey and Olding must be staring into the mirror wondering what do they have to do to put themselves in the frame. I would have been delighted to have any one of these three covering Henshaw and learning from Joe S and Les Kiss for last 8 and next 6 weeks.

Nathan White (originally signed by Leinster) sneaks in under radar and Tadge Furlong will benefit from environment. Leinster blessed to retain the benefit of Bent for LHP.

Marshall - Concussion issues just not worth the risk.
Olding - Injury issues messed up his chances.
McCloskey - A season too soon but definitely one for the future.
We will miss Trimble

[Oldschool]

Concerns
Healy - Fitness
POC - Size and Age
SOB - Post op. Not the same player.
POM - Post op. Not the same player.
Jackson - No one else. Not good under pressure.
Sexton - Potential concussion risk.
Earls - Injury prone.
Fitzgerald - Injury prone.
No Trimble
Repeat No Trimble is a big loss.
Do we have even one in form Winger? Zebo maybe.

[Golf Man]

You kind of have to assume that Trimble is injury related - I could kind of understand the two sh, 6 back 3 selection if it was to include Trimble to give him time. To include who it does really does't seem worth the risk

The prop selection is a biut weird as well => they were obviously going to include Healy all along.It does seem to pt a it too much presure on McGrath. As for White or Furlong covering LH - its hopefully "only" Romania and Canada but dos seem a complete ste into the unknown

Some of the marginal/surprise selections kind of hint that he does't know wois back ups (or possibly starters/sbs) are in certain positons.

Is Madigan or Cave backup 12
Is the back up[ 13 Earls, Cave or Fitz
Thornley threw it out that DK will be overing 15 with Zebo (even though he asn't played there)
Is Furlong or White the backup TH

It kindof suggests that he has left his options wide as a result - meaning that we hjave the risk of only two shs - all very un Schmidt tbh

[All Blacks nil]

You kind of have to assume that Trimble is injury related - I could kind of understand the two sh, 6 back 3 selection if it was to include Trimble to give him time. To include who it does really does't seem worth the risk

The prop selection is a biut weird as well => they were obviously going to include Healy all along.It does seem to pt a it too much presure on McGrath. As for White or Furlong covering LH - its hopefully "only" Romania and Canada but dos seem a complete ste into the unknown

Some of the marginal/surprise selections kind of hint that he does't know wois back ups (or possibly starters/sbs) are in certain positons.

Is Madigan or Cave backup 12
Is the back up[ 13 Earls, Cave or Fitz
Thornley threw it out that DK will be overing 15 with Zebo (even though he asn't played there)
Is Furlong or White the backup TH

It kindof suggests that he has left his options wide as a result - meaning that we hjave the risk of only two shs - all very un Schmidt tbh

The only thing is that if he had picked Boss as a third scrumhalf he would be taking the risk of actually playing him