Ireland V Canada, 19/9/15

[Hornet]

Joe is using up a lot of his credits with the 'trust in n Joe' brigade. Incredible that he is using the RWC opener to see if Luke can play at 12.
Why not throw Madigan in scrumhalf and he will have all the answers.

Now when Declan Kidney did something similar.............

You are pathetic.

[johng]

6 bites in 45 mins. I'd say his work here is done for a Friday.

[jimbobjoe]

6 bites in 45 mins. I'd say his work here is done for a Friday.

*puts feet up, takes victory sip

[blockhead]

6 bites in 45 mins. I'd say his work here is done for a Friday.

*puts feet up, takes victory sip

And puts on his Canada (Munster jersey with maple leaf attached) jersey.

[RoboProp]

6 bites in 45 mins. I'd say his work here is done for a Friday.

*puts feet up, takes victory sip

And puts on his Canada (Munster jersey with maple leaf attached) jersey.

Probably breaking out the good Declan Kidney collage as we speak

[fourthirtythree]

No idea as Luke seems to buck the trend when it comes down to performance in training vs getting picked anywhere from my information, you could say that he is on a par with Bowe.

We're you actually watching Bowe stink the place out the other week? I would say that the way Bowe was picked for Ulster and Ireland on reputation for the last year at least has finally caught up with him. Luke didn't turnover ball nearly every time he got it nor did he miss most of his tackles nor did he gift the opposition with tries.

The comparison is blatantly absurd.

Personally I thought there was a drop in Bowe's performances last year but that he was still really good for the most part. Physically he wasn't anywhere near as impressive as he had been. Even just looking at him in the past he looked like he was in great shape, whereas last season I felt like he looked smaller and often quite tired. This might be incredibly harsh because it was a brilliant piece of play but I remember thinking it was strange that he was so knackered after the intercept against Australia given that it was so early on. It was also obvious against France and England that he didn't have the power of old. He was put through plenty of gaps and got hit hard or lost the ball when I think he'd have gotten away in times gone by. I had a theory that he was putting in so much brilliant work on the kick chase that he was just knackered when doing anything else, but the warm up games have me doubting that. Slightly meandering point but basically I think there were warning signs last year, but that the criticism for those performances is a bit OTT now.

I haven't heard anything about Luke in training but one thing I'd say when comparing the two is that he would have been behind Bowe due to his shoulder surgery. As a one off selection for tomorrow I don't see why anyone would care but agree that it's wrong to have not gone with a third scrumhalf and brought Cave if he wasn't trusted. That could end up being a much bigger issue for a more important game. For example, if Murray picks up the same hamstring injury as Henshaw in a week or two then we're in trouble.

I'm not suggesting that Bowe was in anything like as poor form last year as he has exhibited recently, but I do think that he was picked for Ulster when his form didn't deserve it. Like with Ireland his ability was trusted to transcend form and I don't think it ultimately did. Sadly it looks like injuries have caught up with him.

From outside playing Cave if Henshaw is injured looks like a no brainer. Particularly as they play together provincially and Cave has been moved to 12 to fit thepain15 at 13, seemingly at the behest of Ireland management...

On the 3rd scrumhalf just worth pointing out that after being not so good the other week Marmion appeared to be decent last week...

[Flash Gordon]

+1

Did it? They have been excellent defensively, no question but has our center partnership offered a genuine attacking threat? Between them they've scored two tries in 20 tests. I get that they might be the best players in that position but they still have to deliver attack wise.

I thought it went very well, yeah. I don't expect inside centres to score sh*tloads of tries. Darce only scored 7 tries in 82 tests. It's also not the only measurement of attacking capability. Making breaks and beating defenders is tough in the No12 jersey – there's no room. In those regards, Henshaw had a cracking Six Nations, easily outperforming any of his northern hemisphere contemporaries.

Over the course of the 5 games in the Six Nations, Henshaw was credited by ESPN with 4 clean breaks [2 vs Scotland, 1 vs England, 1 vs Italy] and 16 defenders beaten [2 vs Scotland, 3 vs Wales, 6 vs England, 2 vs France and 3 vs Italy]. That gives an average of 0.8 CB/game and 3.2 DB/game.

Jamie Roberts started all five games for Wales and is credited with 1 clean break and 6 defenders beaten [average: 0.2CB/game and 1.2DB/game]; Luther Burrell started all five for England and is credited with 2 clean breaks and 3 defenders beaten [0.4 CB/game and 0.6 DB/game -and those figures point towards why he didn't make the English RWC squad]. No other No12 started more than three matches in the championship.

Masi [Italy] played in three games and is credited with 2 clean breaks and 4 defenders beaten [0.7 CB/game and 1.3 DB/game]; Fofana [France] played in three and is credited with 2 clean breaks and 6 defenders beaten [0.7 CB/game and 2 DB/game]; and Dunbar [Scotland] started 3 and is credited with 2 clean breaks and 2 defenders beaten [0.7 CB/game and 0.7 DB/game].

Given that he massively outperformed both in totals and averages all his contemporaries in those key attacking categories, that he was first rate defensively and that we won the Six Nations, I thought he was an unqualified success. By some distance the best No12 in the tournament.



[source: http://en.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2015/r ... te=results ]

To be honest i think D'Arcy's scoring record was actually pretty poor but he massively over compensated for that with the rest of his game - defence, the breakdown, breaking the line and the lines he ran to create space for O'Driscoll. I'd also say that there are lads out there playing 12 that have scored a lot of tries- Nonu (29) and De Villiers (27) for example. Don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at the centers, I think that Henshaw is excellent and in fairness to him, Ireland's defence was the facet that won us the 6 Nations so he was part of a game plan. My point really is that the center partnership is far from proven as an attacking force and as i said, I'm not just looking at the scoring record of the 12 but also at the 13 because great 12's often have try scoring 13's outside them. Hopefully this world cup sees the establishment of another great center partnership for Ireland and points come with it!

[simonokeeffe]

So who's up for a bit of devil's advocacy?
How could Canada target us.
For example their scrum didn't look great in the warm up match against Fiji but they could have been holding something back (sauce for the goose etc).
Could Luke be targeted at 12 or Earls' defence
Who/what else might they target, what would they perceive as our weaknesses?
Who are the Canada experts on this board.
Think of this as a warm up excercise for the bigger games to come.

looking at their team the only threat seems to be their back 3 if we kick loosely to them or suffer turnovers

[Peg Leg]

People were getting all het up when Schmidt selected Henshaw at No12 last autumn with even more limited experience in the role, but that went well.

+1

Did it? They have been excellent defensively, no question but has our center partnership offered a genuine attacking threat? Between them they've scored two tries in 20 tests. I get that they might be the best players in that position but they still have to deliver attack wise.

Bit OTT there, They've played together 7 times.
The backline has now been constructed around those two who have performed more than admirably from day 1. This is a good & solid partnership. Joe has built a defense orientated team with some great set piece/moves.

EDIT: Hugo's accurate stats say it better than I can.

[Peg Leg]

while the original comparison doesn't really work yours is as absurd - bowe was repeatedly selected because of his record - he was in the Heaslip sexton poc class with huge credit in the bank. Fitz gets selected repeatedly without having any of that credit - 30 caps not making big mistakes isn't enough in my mind to give him the status he seems to have

Luke is your new D'Arcy we get it.

The thoughts of him getting selected ahead of the world class inside centre Darren Cave against a crack side like Canada is really just terrible. The world cup could be over by 4.25 tomorrow.

I snotted reading this

[Oldschool]

Drico and Joe having a very intense conversation pitch side before the kick off.
Joe's too busy to be just passing the time of day.
Drico could be giving Luke some one on one coaching over the next few weeks.

[simonokeeffe]

Alberts pulled out of Boks game following Captains Run, so it can happen

[fourthirtythree]

Henderson really justifying his selection. So too Luke.

And I've missed that Sexton.

[simonokeeffe]

Canadian scrum is worryingly solidifying itself

but fair play to Stuart Barnes for saying that was a smart yellow card from Cudmore, even Dallaglio wouldve said that one was stupid

[blockhead]

I hate TV3!

[DartVader]

I hate TV3!

To be fair, I like Mattie Williams and luv Jenno! Murray Kinsella has been very good too with his pre match comments though I think his print stuff is great anyway.

Also, Re Ireland.....

[FLIP]

I'm still incredulous at the POC card. How was he offside?

[johng]

He was coming from an offside position. He ran past the Canadians from their side and played the ball. Madness from a player of his stature

[FLIP]

He was coming from an offside position. He ran past the Canadians from their side and played the ball. Madness from a player of his stature

He ran past the ruck after the ball had been played and made his move within the same phase of play. He was never offside.

[Dublinner]

Henderson is having a great game. Offers a lot more than Toner in my book. Dev will really struggle to get back into the team. Canada are very poor mind you.