Ireland v Romania, 27/9/15

[artaneboy]

For once I find myself in disagreement with Hugo, I thought Toner had an excellent game.

Totally. I think it's incredible view that he was poor- or even average. He was excellent throughout the match.

[hugonaut]

For once I find myself in disagreement with Hugo, I thought Toner had an excellent game.

I dunno, I really rate Dev and think he's capable of better performances than he put in today. He's still a bit off the form he showed in the last two Six Nations campaigns.

[Oldschool]

For once I find myself in disagreement with Hugo, I thought Toner had an excellent game.

I dunno, I really rate Dev and think he's capable of better performances than he put in today. He's still a bit off the form he showed in the last two Six Nations campaigns.

As judge, juror and executioner. (SELF APPOINTED, OF COURSE)
Dev and Hendo are two totally different types of player. What one gives the other doesn't and visa versa.
What will happen tho' is that Joe will use both to spread the work load.
Against France, Dev might start to meet grunt with grunt and then 25 mins to go Hendo could come and blitz the Frnech.
That's just one scenario. Joe will have a few more tricks up his.
The lineout maul changed today when POC came on for one reason and one reason only. Joe permitted it.
Up to that we were giving nothing away (intellectually) at maul time.
It we are to get to the final all 31 players are going to play in more than one match.
Don't be disappointed if your particular favourite doesn't get picked for each match, there will be plenty for all to go around should we go all the way to the final.
As an aside, it was great to see all three wingers picking it up today.
Joe is an additive coach - bring it on.

[Dave Cahill]

For once I find myself in disagreement with Hugo, I thought Toner had an excellent game.

I dunno, I really rate Dev and think he's capable of better performances than he put in today. He's still a bit off the form he showed in the last two Six Nations campaigns.

Like the work of Sigur Ros, i think you'll find that todays performance from Dev rewards repeated plays

[Ruckedtobits]

Compare and contrast after 2 games, performance in last RWC in Northern Hemishere, 2007 against this version.

2007 - 2 wins from 2 games; 32-17 against Namibia; 14-10 against Georgia.
Wins against two Tier 2 opponents;
8 tries against 3 conceded;
Position in Pool Table: 2nd behind Argentina............But
France scored 13 tries against Namibia. 87-10 and Argentina pulverised Georgia 33-3

Tonight we sit top of Pool Table;
Maximum points from two games;
Kicking percentages close to 90% from 2 kickers;
Most tries scored; Least tries conceded in Pool;

This is the vital week for the Squad.

All regular posters recognise that Joe and coaches see more than we'll ever do at training and on tape. Also, they know exactly what they are looking for from each player and how those elements fit into the Squad skill-set and performances. Our opinions are solely for our amusement and our entertainment. They can never be tested or validated because we don't and can't know exactly what challenges are posed by opponents or by Joe and his coaches. We see what we see, but we have no idea if what we see is viewed in the same light by Joe and his management.

Thus far, we have not made crucial errors in either game before the contest was over. That is the hallmark of a team playing within itself. For game against Italy, I'm looking for Joe to finish last 20 mins with team he wants to start against France. I hope we have a 5 point win in the bag by the time the last 20 comes.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Thought Dev was really good but not good enough to get ahead of the other three.

Thought Jordi drifted in and out of the game, really good in patches but anonymous at other times.

I was disappointed with Madigan, thought he was the main reason for us going sideways so much which had a big knock on effect for Payne in particular.

Overall I was pretty disappointed with how we attacked close to the breakdown. Last week we had guys running hard onto short balls or running dummy lines back towards the ruck to fix defenders inside. Today we just kept moving sideways and either ran bad angles at the defenders close to the ruck, or just passed it towards midfield where the Romanians were waiting in big numbers. That was partly as a result of picking the wrong pass (which happened a lot) but mainly just because we weren't fixing defenders.

Don't mean to be so negative but a lot of it was frustrating. Healy looked pretty fit, and Strauss and Henry were excellent. Zebo and Earls were electric and Bowe looked much more like his old self. I still feel that he's missing his power and don't remember him popping up in midfield, but he had an excellent game, looked more like his old self, and took his first try and one high ball absolutely brilliantly.

[Hippo]

Thought Dev was really good but not good enough to get ahead of the other three.

Thought Jordi drifted in and out of the game, really good in patches but anonymous at other times.

I was disappointed with Madigan, thought he was the main reason for us going sideways so much which had a big knock on effect for Payne in particular.

Overall I was pretty disappointed with how we attacked close to the breakdown. Last week we had guys running hard onto short balls or running dummy lines back towards the ruck to fix defenders inside. Today we just kept moving sideways and either ran bad angles at the defenders close to the ruck, or just passed it towards midfield where the Romanians were waiting in big numbers. That was partly as a result of picking the wrong pass (which happened a lot) but mainly just because we weren't fixing defenders.

Don't mean to be so negative but a lot of it was frustrating. Healy looked pretty fit, and Strauss and Henry were excellent. Zebo and Earls were electric and Bowe looked much more like his old self. I still feel that he's missing his power and don't remember him popping up in midfield, but he had an excellent game, looked more like his old self, and took his first try and one high ball absolutely brilliantly.

I'd agree with much of that - I just feel Dev brings something different from the other three, and obviously guarantees lineout ball in most circumstances (though there's probably a Hugo stat to disprove that assertion!). I'm even of the opinion that our best 2nd row at the moment might well be DT and IH, sacrilegious though I know that is. Agree completely about Earls and Zebo, even allowing for the opposition they were terrific, especially Earls. Jordi as you say drifted in and out, and it was a very mixed bag from Madser.

[FLIP]

On the Madigan going sideways thing, sitting behind the posts it looked very much to me like standard Joe 10 play, and it was in fact Cave who wasn't keeping the rest of the back line straight. Luke was much better at this against Canada.

Zebo was also quite guilty of killing a lot of space by running sideways but overall had a good game.

[Oldschool]

Compare and contrast after 2 games, performance in last RWC in Northern Hemishere, 2007 against this version.

2007 - 2 wins from 2 games; 32-17 against Namibia; 14-10 against Georgia.
Wins against two Tier 2 opponents;
8 tries against 3 conceded;
Position in Pool Table: 2nd behind Argentina............But
France scored 13 tries against Namibia. 87-10 and Argentina pulverised Georgia 33-3

Tonight we sit top of Pool Table;
Maximum points from two games;
Kicking percentages close to 90% from 2 kickers;
Most tries scored; Least tries conceded in Pool;

This is the vital week for the Squad.

All regular posters recognise that Joe and coaches see more than we'll ever do at training and on tape. Also, they know exactly what they are looking for from each player and how those elements fit into the Squad skill-set and performances. Our opinions are solely for our amusement and our entertainment. They can never be tested or validated because we don't and can't know exactly what challenges are posed by opponents or by Joe and his coaches. We see what we see, but we have no idea if what we see is viewed in the same light by Joe and his management.

Thus far, we have not made crucial errors in either game before the contest was over. That is the hallmark of a team playing within itself. For game against Italy, I'm looking for Joe to finish last 20 mins with team he wants to start against France. I hope we have a 5 point win in the bag by the time the last 20 comes.

Ah feck that - Here was me thinking Joe hung on my every word.
Another bubble burst.

[Golf Man]

I thought Toner was pretty good but as others have said - probably not good enough though

Its not as simple as one does this and the other dos the opposite - Henderson generally offers more and is a better fit atm with Healy on the bench -Henderson Toner will probably be the lock pairing next year and that looks fine - has to be Henderson POC for Italy - if the lineout is a disaster then maybe Toner comes back into the reckoning for France

POM is not under threat in any way at all imo - I don't think a performance against Romania (or Canada) was going to force anyone into the starting15. Of the backrow SOB hasn't really got motoring yet but the backrow decision that was probably made today is Henry on the bench (even though that was probably going o happen anyway)

1-10 is nailed on for next week and Henshaw and Payne have to start. R Kearney isn't going to be shifted from 15 and as been good so far. Subs are all petty much nailed on as well - argument for Furlong ahead of White but I don't see it happening - Furlong has had very ittle rugby and I think is a break incase of emergencies player for this WC - great experience for him though

11,14 and 23 are still kind of up in the air I think - 2 from DK,Earls, Bowe, Fitz and Zebo

Personally I'd go with DK and Earls to start although I really wouldn't be surprised to see Earls and Bowe. Bench imo should be Zebo but ight depend on Kearney and Henshaw injury status so Fitz might come into the running

[WarPoodle]

Personally I'd go with DK and Earls to start although I really wouldn't be surprised to see Earls and Bowe.

Bowe has one good game in the last how long.... and it's against Romania. People are already putting him ahead of DK? When DK was consistently our best winger in the warm-ups and did very well against Canada. Not saying you are Golf-man. Just others I've been speaking to.

I'm a great fan of Bowe, but he should not have travelled over Trimble, and DK should not be dropped on the basis of Bowe's one good game in the last year which was against a Tier 2 nation. In my humble opinion

[olaf the fat]

The players seemed to approach the game with goal 1) Dont get f%~king injured, Goal 2) Do what Joe wants, Goal 3) Dont get f%~king injured.

Phoney war is over, here starts our world cup!

[simonokeeffe]

Payne seems to overthink things against weaker sides, a lot of pundits saying he's at risk of losing his place but he will and has to start the big games

[Peg Leg]

Any injury updates? Earls, Dev, RK, took some hard knocks. The Dev drop at the line out was idiotic.

[Fireworks]

For once I find myself in disagreement with Hugo, I thought Toner had an excellent game.

I dunno, I really rate Dev and think he's capable of better performances than he put in today. He's still a bit off the form he showed in the last two Six Nations campaigns.

As judge, juror and executioner. (SELF APPOINTED, OF COURSE)
Dev and Hendo are two totally different types of player. What one gives the other doesn't and visa versa.
What will happen tho' is that Joe will use both to spread the work load.
Against France, Dev might start to meet grunt with grunt and then 25 mins to go Hendo could come and blitz the Frnech.
That's just one scenario. Joe will have a few more tricks up his.
The lineout maul changed today when POC came on for one reason and one reason only. Joe permitted it.
Up to that we were giving nothing away (intellectually) at maul time.
It we are to get to the final all 31 players are going to play in more than one match.
Don't be disappointed if your particular favourite doesn't get picked for each match, there will be plenty for all to go around should we go all the way to the final.
As an aside, it was great to see all three wingers picking it up today.
Joe is an additive coach - bring it on.

They are very different players and I can see them being rotated but the one to lose out most in that scenario is Toner as he does not appear to be a guy to make an impact from the bench plus Henderson and Ryan offer extra cover for the backrow. I Though Toner was much better and showcased why he is picked very well. His restart take is a nice tactic when it works but would like to see him being tailed by a back or backrower looking for the pass.

I would agree that if we go deep into this competition we will see the squad heavily used but I think the one exception is Jackson. Unless there is an injury I cannot see him appearing again.

[Fireworks]

My general take on the game was that it was good but could have been better. There was some sloppy mistakes which if removed would have seen a big score run up. It looked like they wanted to get the win and then easy up to save some energy and avoid strains. Payne looked like someone with too much time to think and with less time against better opposition I think you get a solid performance from him but without the spark that might win a game. That spark needs to come from those around him. It would be hard to build a new 12/13 partnership now so I see him staying but would love to see a Henshaw/Luke combination at some time in the future.

The most pleasing part was that when it came to the scrums where Romania were always strong we were pushing them around for fun.

[Donny B.]

I thought Dev had a very strong game myself, carrying very aggressively. As with others, I still think Henderson will stay ahead of him and Ryan's versatility will keep him on the bench. Tough on Dev, but a really strong option to come in should any of the other locks get injured or lose form.

Overall I was happy enough with the match. Yeah, was scrappy at times in the first half, but that nearly always happens when you have a team that hasn't played together too much. We were always in control and you felt the scores would come in the second half, which they did.

Back three was excellent, and it's fair to say this is the strongest we've ever been there in terms of options. Dev, Henry and Strauss the pick of the forwards.

[Golf Man]

Personally I'd go with DK and Earls to start although I really wouldn't be surprised to see Earls and Bowe.

Bowe has one good game in the last how long.... and it's against Romania. People are already putting him ahead of DK? When DK was consistently our best winger in the warm-ups and did very well against Canada. Not saying you are Golf-man. Just others I've been speaking to.

I'm a great fan of Bowe, but he should not have travelled over Trimble, and DK should not be dropped on the basis of Bowe's one good game in the last year which was against a Tier 2 nation. In my humble opinion

No doubt that Earls and DK have been the form wingers over the past 6 games but to counter your argument..

DK/Earls have shown good form in World Cup warmups and against Tier 2 nations - they hadn't played for Ireland in the previous 15/24 months
Bowe (with one less match) showed a big improvement v a Tier 2 country and has huge huge credit in the bank

Bowe only played 1 of the three warmups before the squad was selected - his place in the squad was never ever in doubt, and rightly - I think DKs form and Trimbles injury made the selection easier (I think its fair to say that most wouldn't have expected DK in the squad)

I'd like to have seen a bit more o Zebo on the wing but he has filled in at fb really well and seems well p[laced for the 23 jersey. I don't think Fitz will start on the wing but is in contention for the bench. In that case its 2 from 3 and I don't whoever misses out gets o the bench

I don't think that Earls/DK have been so good as to be undroppable particularly in light of Bowe being such a stalwart. I think Earls has to play (obv I am a bit biased) but he looks better in defence than ever and he offers something going forward that one of the other options do. BTW could also see Bowe/Kearney with Earls not playing a all (possibly a"safe"call)

I think its wide open - which is great - you could well see 2 of Zebo Earls and DK miss out on the 23 for Italy (and I tink it will be first choice, not going to underestimate them - their whole WC comes down to this game) - they would all be justifiably peeved as they have all performed

[Golf Man]

My general take on the game was that it was good but could have been better. There was some sloppy mistakes which if removed would have seen a big score run up. It looked like they wanted to get the win and then easy up to save some energy and avoid strains. Payne looked like someone with too much time to think and with less time against better opposition I think you get a solid performance from him but without the spark that might win a game. That spark needs to come from those around him. It would be hard to build a new 12/13 partnership now so I see him staying but would love to see a Henshaw/Luke combination at some time in the future.

The most pleasing part was that when it came to the scrums where Romania were always strong we were pushing them around for fun.

Payne is getting a lot of bad press - personaly I think a lot of it is undeserved - ehas ad a couple of bad kicks but aside from that I think he has been good. Very central to the way we play - he is not going to a cutting edge 13 but a big part of the attack and a massive massive part of the defence. Its possible that had others been fit that we wouldn't have ended up with Payne at 13, bt I am very happy that we did - I just think he is an excellent footballer and I do thnk himself and Henshaw could be very good in attack as well as defence. Having a it more cutting edge out wide (and a willingness to use it) will also help Payne.

I would actually think that the spark at 13 that you are looking for would be far more likely from Earls rather than Fitz - wouldseem like a much better fit

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't remember Payne running hard and straight up the middle once yesterday. Maybe he did but he certainly didn't do it often, would expect a big change in that department in the next couple of games and he'll be more effective then. Plus if he has Sexton and Henshaw inside him then they should be able to hold defenders better and we'll see more of his good distribution out wide.

I wouldn't be surprised if Earls and Rob K are just ruled out immediately because of their knocks and we go with DK, Bowe, and Zebo in the back three, and Luke at 23.