Ireland v Italy, 4/10/2015

[ribs]

I presume we were protecting sexton. Very little ball went down the backline and I don't remember a single pass making it to the wingers. Bit concerned that Murray has brought back that extra step he was criticised for early in his international career - it gives the opposition defence a headstart. I wouldn't drop him but we need to keep the ball and decision making quick. Really need Payne to be fit next week. At least we won.

[Hippo]

Without going into individual performances, that was a disappointingly flat showing. It was also notable for the reappearance of the POC as first receiver tactic. Please let's not start doing this again.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Maybe the world cup brings them out but there is some awful shite being spouted here tonight

I won't bother commenting on it

Up to 10.45pm last night some awful garbage/trolling especially about POM who really is a key part of this team and currently our best back row.

Since them contributions more balanced.

Would expect our intensity, line speed & maul to be a lot better on Sunday.

I expect RK & Payne to replace Zebo & DK (Earls on wing) with Luke to stay on bench. Big question in pack is whether balance of back row needs Henry. You would have to be very close to squad & gameplan to know the answer to that.

Didn't really see any trolling about POM, I just mentioned I was underwhelmed - would have been better to say that I was not overwhelmed by him, and was prob reacting to the cr@p the TV3 boys were spouting about being surprised at Ian Henderson being picked as MOM. IH was easily MOM imho, he was a beast and all of his contributions were positive.

I did answer to a strange hypothetical posed by "all Blacks Nil"

Would Ireland have won that game without O'Mahony's contribution?

But you just can't cede an overstated point like that uncontested.

[FLIP]

Having an opinion based on statistics and my own observations is not trolling.

I suggest that a few more people watch ITV and get away from the Irish media circle jerk over the worst performing forward in the squad.

[leinster4life13]

Having an opinion based on statistics and my own observations is not trolling.

I suggest that a few more people watch ITV and get away from the Irish media circle jerk over the worst performing forward in the squad.

He's the anti-blindside, who needs big hits and carries?

[blockhead]

For my part, I disputed someone elses opinion that POM was ^awesome^ against Italy. If that makes me a troll, then a troll I am.

[All Blacks nil]

Some tackling stats from game
McGrath 8/0
Best 4/1
Ross 7/1
Henderson 11/0
O'Connell 10/0
O'Mahony 6/0
O'Brien 3/1
Heaslip 6/0
Murray 3/1
Sexton 3/3
Kearney 2/1
Henshaw 11/0
Earls 9/1
Bowe 8/0
Zebo 4/0

Cronin 1/0
Healy 1/1
White 1/0
toner 1/0
Henry 1/0
Fitzgerald 0/0

[All Blacks nil]

Ireland's kicking game

20 seconds - Clearance- Murray clears his line in smart exit play and finds touch on halfway
1 min 35s - Kick ahead -Earls kicks ahead to Luke Mclean who kicks deep
1 min 40s - Clearance- Sexton fields McLean's kick inside 22 and kicks good clearance to Italian 10 metre line
5m 20s - Penalty touchfinder -Sexton kicks penalty from 22 to Italian 10 metre line
8m 20s - Placekick - Sexton kicks 3 points from in front of goals
9m 45s - Chip -Sexton chip charged down on halfway
15m 25s Kick off -Sexton kick off to 22m line is perfect as Bowe competes in air but Italians pick up the loose ball
17m 42s - Kick ahead -Murray kicks ahead in a 15 metre blindside 8/9 ball - ball runs into touch- poor decision, although Ireland score from resultant lineout steal
19m 0s - Placekick -Sexton kicks conversion from slightly left of posts
20m 25s - Clearance- Murray clears lines after another smart exit play finds touch on halfway
24m 40s- Kickoff - Sexton kickoff allows Bowe compete but Italians win contest
25m 15s- Territorial - Zebo gathers aimless kick from Mclean and goes long but sends the ball dead - poor kick.
28m 09s - Territorial -Sexton kicks down the centre from own 22, Mclean gathers and fins touch in Irish half
31m 10s - Placekick - Sexton hits post with penalty kick from 10 metre line slightly to right of goal
37m 20s - Penalty touchfinder - Sexton taps penalty into touch in corner

40m 0s - Kickoff -Sexton short kickoff to right allows Bowe compete but again Italians win ball
42m 4s - Penalty touchfinder -Sexton kicks penalty to touch 22m line to 1/2way
43m 0s -Territorial kick -Sexton kicks touch in 22 from halfway as Irish attack fizzles out
46m 16s Clearance - Zebo retreats to gather long clear ance after Ireland turnover possession and clears to halfway
49m 0s - Clearance -Murray clears lines to 10m line after another smart exit play following 5 yard defensive lineout after THAT tackle.
51m 0s - kickoff - Sexton orthodox short kickoff to left which POC wins
52m 52s - up and under - Bowe up and under to 1/2way where Italians knock on under pressure
57m 50s - Placekick - Sexton kicks pen from 20m slightly right of posts
61m 20s - Placekick -Sexton kicks penalty from 28m straight in front
61m 50s - Up and under - Sexton short up and under, bowe deflects back but Italy gather loose ball
62m 35s - Boxkick -Murray 22m to 1/2way, Italian catches under pressure and recycle
64m 58s - Up and under - Sexton 22m to 1/2way, Italy catch under pressure and recycle
66m 10s - 22 Drop out - Sexton long drop out
67m 40s - Up and under - Sexton 22m to Italy 10 metre, Gori rides earls tackle and Italy attack
68m 20s - Boxkick - Murray boxkick off driving maul, too close to touchline and Bowe knocks into touch
70m 30s - Territorial kick - Murray kicks ahead off an 8/9 move and finds touch in 22
74m 33s - Boxkick - Murray boxkick after Henry drives on after gathering Italian over throw in lineout. Bowe wins cleanly
74m 50s - Up and under - Sexton from right to left to Italian 22, Italy win
75m 20s - Territorial - sexton kicks from 1/2way into 22 and finds touch
76m 00s - Up and under - Zebo to 1/2 way Italy knock on Ireland regather and
76m 11s - Territorial - Sexton kicks to dead ball area
77m 36s - Boxkick - Murray boxkick - Bowe impeded stupidly - Irish penalty
79m 25s -Placekick - Sexton misses from 35m on 15m line on right side (his bogey position)
80m 17s -Touchfind - Sexton sensibly kicks ball off park after some unwise attacking play when there was absolutely nothing to be gained and everything to lose.

As you see plenty of kicking. Interesting to see that Ireland did not put up a boxkick or an up and under until the 52 minute but surely made up for that in the last quarter.

Clearance kicking was generally excellent with Ireland very deliberately finding touch showing a well founded confidence in their ability to pressurise the Italian lineout.
Sexton's kickoffs were all spot on with Bowe and POC both winning one each and the other 2 being very contestable ball.

Ireland looked to play territory for the last 25 minutes almost exclusively using up and unders from Sexton and boxkicks from Murray. Of the ten such kicks Italy won possession on six occasions with Ireland winning the other four. On one of those four occasions they immediately kicked again with Sexton sending the ball in to the dead ball area. Italy won five of those possessions in a row between the 62nd and 69th minutes. Eventually Ireland won a few in the last 10 minutes although one was down to a braindead penalty concession from Sarto.

Ireland fared better when they kicked for position with both Murray and Sexton pushing Italy back to the corners on occasion.

Personally I was very disappointed with the tactics used. It is hard to exert any control on a game when the ball is in the air so much. In fairness, POM's sinbinning would have somewhat dictated those tactics in the last 10 minutes but................. A brutal display of turgid, unambitious rugby especially in the second half.

[jezzer]

What worries me a bit is that you cant just turn on the open, passing and offloading game and have it work. Its a mentality as much as a set of techniques and you dont just find that mentality on matchday. Players who have been practising for months to position themselves for chasing high balls and picking spots for hitting rucks when the guy inside is tackled arent going to be primed to follow the ball and take the offload when it happens. Its not a case of flicking a switch. Any time we havr offloaded, we've looked far far more dangerous as a team. The offensive mentality starts from the 9 and our 9 on Sunday couldnt have been thinking less about getting us behind Italy with the ball in hand. He just wanted to capitulate any offensive ambitions and get rid of the ball. Against SH opposition and against France, that'll get us mullered. Nothing wrong with a box kick to exit the 22 or a territory winning cross kick when there's the option. But we need to find space and attack it way way better than we did on Sunday.

[All Blacks nil]

What worries me a bit is that you cant just turn on the open, passing and offloading game and have it work. Its a mentality as much as a set of techniques and you dont just find that mentality on matchday. Players who have been practising for months to position themselves for chasing high balls and picking spots for hitting rucks when the guy inside is tackled arent going to be primed to follow the ball and take the offload when it happens. Its not a case of flicking a switch. Any time we havr offloaded, we've looked far far more dangerous as a team. The offensive mentality starts from the 9 and our 9 on Sunday couldnt have been thinking less about getting us behind Italy with the ball in hand. He just wanted to capitulate any offensive ambitions and get rid of the ball. Against SH opposition and against France, that'll get us mullered. Nothing wrong with a box kick to exit the 22 or a territory winning cross kick when there's the option. But we need to find space and attack it way way better than we did on Sunday.

In Murray's defence, don't for one second think he took it on himself to decide and implement those tactics.
When you see pictures of Joe talking into his mouthpiece, he is not ordering his post match "mullet" piazza from Dominos you know.
I agree with and have argued consistently that you can't just turn on the attacking mentality. "Will Ireland open up" ?
Certainly it doesn't look like it although perversely I expect them to be more expansive against France, not because Joe has attempted to hoodwink the rugby world but because that is how he sets out to play against French teams. I expect they will try starve France of possession by not kicking away possession.

In hindsight, perhaps that glorious aerial victory against England in the Aviva, may have given this team a false impression of how best to win games. If a team plays one dimensionally, they can be one dimensionally nullified.

[Oldschoolsocks]

What worries me a bit is that you cant just turn on the open, passing and offloading game and have it work. Its a mentality as much as a set of techniques and you dont just find that mentality on matchday. Players who have been practising for months to position themselves for chasing high balls and picking spots for hitting rucks when the guy inside is tackled arent going to be primed to follow the ball and take the offload when it happens. Its not a case of flicking a switch. Any time we havr offloaded, we've looked far far more dangerous as a team. The offensive mentality starts from the 9 and our 9 on Sunday couldnt have been thinking less about getting us behind Italy with the ball in hand. He just wanted to capitulate any offensive ambitions and get rid of the ball. Against SH opposition and against France, that'll get us mullered. Nothing wrong with a box kick to exit the 22 or a territory winning cross kick when there's the option. But we need to find space and attack it way way better than we did on Sunday.

In Murray's defence, don't for one second think he took it on himself to decide and implement those tactics.
When you see pictures of Joe talking into his mouthpiece, he is not ordering his post match "mullet" piazza from Dominos you know.
I agree with and have argued consistently that you can't just turn on the attacking mentality. "Will Ireland open up" ?
Certainly it doesn't look like it although perversely I expect them to against France, not because Joe has attempted to hoodwink the rugby world but because that is how he sets out to play against French teams.
In hindsight, perhaps that glorious aerial victory against England in the Aviva, may have given this team a false impression of how best to win games. If a team plays one dimensionally, they can be one dimensionally nullified.

Kind of begs the question, is the decision making at the back of the ruck too slow? Why can some scrummies make a split second decision to pass or run, and where to pass or run, and others take just a little too much from the ball? Is this a learned behaviour, or is it instinct? Last Irish 9 I can really remember consistently presenting the pillars with a real decision to make was TOL, shame he went off the boil, I really fancied him.

[All Blacks nil]

Duplicate post

[blockhead]

What worries me a bit is that you cant just turn on the open, passing and offloading game and have it work. Its a mentality as much as a set of techniques and you dont just find that mentality on matchday. Players who have been practising for months to position themselves for chasing high balls and picking spots for hitting rucks when the guy inside is tackled arent going to be primed to follow the ball and take the offload when it happens. Its not a case of flicking a switch. Any time we havr offloaded, we've looked far far more dangerous as a team. The offensive mentality starts from the 9 and our 9 on Sunday couldnt have been thinking less about getting us behind Italy with the ball in hand. He just wanted to capitulate any offensive ambitions and get rid of the ball. Against SH opposition and against France, that'll get us mullered. Nothing wrong with a box kick to exit the 22 or a territory winning cross kick when there's the option. But we need to find space and attack it way way better than we did on Sunday.

In Murray's defence, don't for one second think he took it on himself to decide and implement those tactics.
When you see pictures of Joe talking into his mouthpiece, he is not ordering his post match "mullet" piazza from Dominos you know.
I agree with and have argued consistently that you can't just turn on the attacking mentality. "Will Ireland open up" ?
Certainly it doesn't look like it although perversely I expect them to against France, not because Joe has attempted to hoodwink the rugby world but because that is how he sets out to play against French teams.
In hindsight, perhaps that glorious aerial victory against England in the Aviva, may have given this team a false impression of how best to win games. If a team plays one dimensionally, they can be one dimensionally nullified.

Kind of begs the question, is the decision making at the back of the ruck too slow? Why can some scrummies make a split second decision to pass or run, and where to pass or run, and others take just a little too much from the ball? Is this a learned behaviour, or is it instinct? Last Irish 9 I can really remember consistently presenting the pillars with a real decision to make was TOL, shame he went off the boil, I really fancied him.

Maybe ABN can get you his number.

[All Blacks nil]

Yes,
Scrumhalf should make the decision whether to scrum or pass and preferably make a quick decision.
Unfortunately systems dictate their actions, and for Murray to go against instructions from above, would undoubtedly compromise the system. When Murray box kicks or Sexton goes long the whole team know what's happening. If they don't you have no kick chase.
Systems dictate.
Painting by numbers
"Green trees are green young man and red flowers are red"

[Oldschoolsocks]

Yes,
Scrumhalf should make the decision whether to scrum or pass and preferably make a quick decision.
Unfortunately systems dictate their actions, and for Murray to go against instructions from above, would undoubtedly compromise the system. When Murray box kicks or Sexton goes long the whole team know what's happening. If they don't you have no kick chase.
Systems dictate.
Painting by numbers
"Green trees are green young man and red flowers are red"

Yup, it's the waiting and looking which side to pass the ball to and at what angle that seems to be taking the speed out of the ball. Contrast this to NZ, slow ball is kicked, quick ball is ran, and everyone seems to be drilled to know where the next breakdown is and scrummie always seems to know where the first receiver is. We seem to forget any pattern after two rucks . With a bit of luck I'm talking out of my hole and we'll be drilling this to death this week.

[nc6000]

Any at the match notice that Madigan was down behind the posts warming-up on his own for the first 15-20 mins of the game? I thought it was a bit odd. Maybe it was as a precaution as Henshaw was just back from injury.

[johng]

Flowers are red young man and Green leaves are green (get it right mate )
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than they way they always have been seen

The kick to contest from everywhere on the pitch may well vanish this weekend. It may only happen from SOME places on the field.

Who knows? Joe may be keeping his cards so close to his chest that even he can't see them.

[jezzer]

I dont think the point is whether it vanishes or not. I thimk its whether the players can remember not to position themselves for the old gameplan and to get immediately into the very different mindset amd positioning of the new one ( running trailers instead of hanging back to hit the inevitable ruck etc) I dont think players can fully switch it on like that, but I hope they try.

[johng]

I dont think the point is whether it vanishes or not. I thimk its whether the players can remember not to position themselves for the old gameplan and to get immediately into the very different mindset amd positioning of the new one ( running trailers instead of hanging back to hit the inevitable ruck etc) I dont think players can fully switch it on like that, but I hope they try.

If you and me know that, you would imagine that they do too, and that Joe has a plan to transition the gameplan. Not long now and we'll know. France undoubtedly have one too.

[LeinsterLeader]

Like most people on here I thought SOB had a quit game on Sunday, however this analysis would suggest different. It may not mean a lot but it's something to think about I suppose:

"O’Brien’s work around the breakdown in defence was especially notable and he possibly didn’t get the rewards he deserved. He had a remarkable total of 14 defensive involvements over the course of his 67 minutes on the pitch, winning one turnover.
Referee Jerome Garces continued the trend of this World Cup by largely favouring the attacking team at the rucks, and O’Brien was clearly surprised that his two slowing actions didn’t actually draw turnover penalties.
O’Brien flung himself at the Italian possession on the ground, while he had 10 effective actions across his 15 arrivals as first or second man in attack. Overall, it was a strong rucking performance from O’Brien and added to some good work elsewhere.
The Leinster man was largely used to carry the ball in congested areas one pass out from rucks and still managed to make 10 carries beyond the gainline. If Ireland can get him into more one-on-one carrying situations against France, O’Brien will do even more damage."