Scrap the Lions?

Forum for the discussion of all International Rugby

Moderator: moderators

Scrap the Lions?

Postby Donny B. » December 1st, 2015, 2:07 pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?
User avatar
Donny B.
Gordon D'Arcy
 
Posts: 26627
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:10 pm
Location: D12!!!!!!!!!

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Oldschoolsocks » December 1st, 2015, 2:30 pm

Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-want-to-win-a-world-cup-scrap-the-lions-1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?


Depends on the negotiations for compensation to the home unions, I think we should be getting a lot bigger slice of the pot.

But gut says yup scrap it
the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Mullet
 
Posts: 1688
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 11:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby simonokeeffe » December 1st, 2015, 2:32 pm

Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-want-to-win-a-world-cup-scrap-the-lions-1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?


The two main reasons it wont go are 1. massive cash cow for unions involved (and sanctioned by world rugby) and B. getting rid of it will look like a victory For Bruce Craig, Boudejal, and the bad guys from Lethal Weapon 2 or whoever owns Saracens
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Leo Cullen
 
Posts: 15896
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Oldschoolsocks » December 1st, 2015, 2:38 pm

The Blackrock mafia own Saracens
the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Mullet
 
Posts: 1688
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 11:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby jimbobjoe » December 1st, 2015, 2:39 pm

It will never go but I think Ireland can use it to get the more peripheral players some proper test time. Do a proper tour of one of the other quad nations and see how they get on. Playing tests against USA and Canada (as it think we did in 2013) does very little at the moment for the players involved. There's a chance we'll get spanked but it will lead to finding new top level leadership and greater test depth.
I'll die before I surrender, Tim.
User avatar
jimbobjoe
Enlightened
 
Posts: 831
Joined: September 16th, 2009, 9:23 pm

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Donny B. » December 1st, 2015, 2:46 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:
Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-want-to-win-a-world-cup-scrap-the-lions-1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?


The two main reasons it wont go are 1. massive cash cow for unions involved (and sanctioned by world rugby) and B. getting rid of it will look like a victory For Bruce Craig, Boudejal, and the bad guys from Lethal Weapon 2 or whoever owns Saracens


Bad Guys from Lethal Weapon 2 were South African so they'll love all the lovely moola. :D
As for the first point, it's currently a massive cash cow only for the unions hosting it,
User avatar
Donny B.
Gordon D'Arcy
 
Posts: 26627
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:10 pm
Location: D12!!!!!!!!!

time to scrap the Lions?

Postby enby » December 1st, 2015, 3:07 pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

I am with Gerry on this one. It was nice while it lasted but now its time to move on. As an added bonus, it would be one in the eye for Sky.
enby
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 430
Joined: May 20th, 2011, 3:57 pm

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Dave Cahill » December 1st, 2015, 3:09 pm

Donny B. wrote:
As for the first point, it's currently a massive cash cow only for the unions hosting it,



I dunno, twenty odd million of the queens pounds split four ways last time around - thats a spicy meatball
I have Bumbleflex
User avatar
Dave Cahill
Gordon D'Arcy
 
Posts: 20449
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 4:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby simonokeeffe » December 1st, 2015, 6:55 pm

Donny B. wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:
Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-want-to-win-a-world-cup-scrap-the-lions-1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?


The two main reasons it wont go are 1. massive cash cow for unions involved (and sanctioned by world rugby) and B. getting rid of it will look like a victory For Bruce Craig, Boudejal, and the bad guys from Lethal Weapon 2 or whoever owns Saracens


Bad Guys from Lethal Weapon 2 were South African so they'll love all the lovely moola. :D
As for the first point, it's currently a massive cash cow only for the unions hosting it,


the new deal though will be much more favourable

would pay for a lot of Ian Madigans
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Leo Cullen
 
Posts: 15896
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Vamos los azules » December 1st, 2015, 11:27 pm

It's one hideous exercise in commercialism and money-making from start to finish these days. Don't see it being scrapped while it's such a cash cow for so many.
"You can’t defend like the boss one week and the cookie man the next".
User avatar
Vamos los azules
Mullet
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: April 15th, 2009, 11:17 pm

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby blues_fan » December 2nd, 2015, 8:38 am

Vamos los azules wrote:It's one hideous exercise in commercialism and money-making from start to finish these days. Don't see it being scrapped while it's such a cash cow for so many.


Why is this always trotted out as a bad thing? Doesn't make sense, especially so for rugby which has governing bodies that are 'owned' by a broad spectrum of community stakeholders unlike say American sports or the French and English clubs which are owned in the more conventional and narrow commercial shareholder sense. Big profits means more money for those stakeholders (grassroots etc). The game is professional now, our national unions need to earn revenue to run the game in the territories they govern. Exploiting the commercial opportunities of a Lions tour doesn't demean it or lessen its credibility it is simply doing what's best for the good of the union and therefore for the good of the game in the territory that union controls from grassroots to pros.

I say keep it. We need to fix the season structure (among other things) first then most of the alleged problems with the Lions will fall away IMO. It has great history and fan support both here and in the home unions. Scrapping the Lions is merely 'fixing' a symptom not getting at the root cause(s) of the NH's lack of international success.
User avatar
blues_fan
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 425
Joined: April 23rd, 2008, 3:44 am

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby CiaranIrl » December 2nd, 2015, 8:55 am

Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-want-to-win-a-world-cup-scrap-the-lions-1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?


Yeah, I'm the exact same. After 97 I was a huge fan of it. It's been on a downward trend since then. They'll probably be anhialated in the next tour, and I don't know how much I'll care.
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
User avatar
CiaranIrl
Girvan Dempsey
 
Posts: 2709
Joined: April 27th, 2009, 11:23 am
Location: Dun Laoghaire

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » December 2nd, 2015, 9:52 am

CiaranIrl wrote:
Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-want-to-win-a-world-cup-scrap-the-lions-1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?


Yeah, I'm the exact same. After 97 I was a huge fan of it. It's been on a downward trend since then. They'll probably be anhialated in the next tour, and I don't know how much I'll care.


Yeah that's how I feel. Loved the '97 documentary, loved the 2001 tour, was excited about the NZ tour but then Woodward and Campbell ruined it and I've been apathetic ever since. The last one was a damp squib and I really don't care much about the next one. Still interested from a rugby perspective in terms of who coaches and who plays, but I don't actually care about it.
User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Shane Horgan
 
Posts: 10152
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Vamos los azules » December 2nd, 2015, 10:46 am

blues_fan wrote:
Vamos los azules wrote:It's one hideous exercise in commercialism and money-making from start to finish these days. Don't see it being scrapped while it's such a cash cow for so many.


Why is this always trotted out as a bad thing? Doesn't make sense, especially so for rugby which has governing bodies that are 'owned' by a broad spectrum of community stakeholders unlike say American sports or the French and English clubs which are owned in the more conventional and narrow commercial shareholder sense. Big profits means more money for those stakeholders (grassroots etc). The game is professional now, our national unions need to earn revenue to run the game in the territories they govern. Exploiting the commercial opportunities of a Lions tour doesn't demean it or lessen its credibility it is simply doing what's best for the good of the union and therefore for the good of the game in the territory that union controls from grassroots to pros.

I say keep it. We need to fix the season structure (among other things) first then most of the alleged problems with the Lions will fall away IMO. It has great history and fan support both here and in the home unions. Scrapping the Lions is merely 'fixing' a symptom not getting at the root cause(s) of the NH's lack of international success.

The perception for me as a travelling fan on the last two tours was that everything was about milking as many people out of as much money as possible. The corporate sponsors and financial big hitters are pandered to at every turn, to the extent that "ordinary" fans are pushed to the periphery as their value is lower but they're still expected to dip into their pockets as often as possible. I did the whole of the last tour to Australia and what I observed first hand through doing so turned me off the whole thing completely. It may not come over the same way to the hosts and, to be honest, I wasn't aware just how bad it is until being that close to the travelling circus.
"You can’t defend like the boss one week and the cookie man the next".
User avatar
Vamos los azules
Mullet
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: April 15th, 2009, 11:17 pm

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby domhnallj » December 2nd, 2015, 11:28 am

Like quite a few people here my attitude to the Lions tour changed in 2005. I would watch the games but have little enthusiasm for it concerning who won. I think I recorded most of the last series and watched it when I could fit it in rather than make time like I would for an Ireland game. Still and all, the money that it brings home is nice so I guess my attitude is carry on (just dont select too many Irish players...and hands off Joe).
"That was shiterarse coaches need to look at themselves this is as bad at is.beem with school. Items impeovrnkyb neefedc"

Golf Man sums up the mood of a nation
User avatar
domhnallj
Girvan Dempsey
 
Posts: 2454
Joined: May 19th, 2011, 9:12 am

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby simonokeeffe » December 2nd, 2015, 1:22 pm

Next one will be a trainwreck on the pitch, they only beat the weakest Australian team in decades because Kurtley Beale wore the wrong studs one day, the whole nation of NZ will be gunning for their blood, the midweek games will be a nightmare (Blues, Highlanders, Chiefs, Hurricanes) and the test side get a mickey mouse team first up (minus anyone playing in league finals or France) then Crusaders then Maoiri then the tests. And you can rest assured Maoiri will have first call on provincial players plus some of AB squad
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Leo Cullen
 
Posts: 15896
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Dave Cahill » December 2nd, 2015, 1:34 pm

Ah well, sure if its hard, then whats the point.
I have Bumbleflex
User avatar
Dave Cahill
Gordon D'Arcy
 
Posts: 20449
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 4:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Mauler » December 2nd, 2015, 1:47 pm

So what's the alternative, rest the players for the summer of the Lions tour so they'll be fighting fit to take on the Dragons, Zebre & Cardiff when the Pro12 resumes in front of 9,000 at the RDS or half that when we play away from home?
'VJ Singh hits more balls than Elton John's chin' - David Feherty
User avatar
Mauler
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3108
Joined: February 8th, 2006, 3:04 pm
Location: Building The Wall

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby simonokeeffe » December 2nd, 2015, 1:48 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Ah well, sure if its hard, then whats the point.


trying is the first step towards failing
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Leo Cullen
 
Posts: 15896
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Oldschoolsocks » December 2nd, 2015, 1:49 pm

Mauler wrote:So what's the alternative, rest the players for the summer of the Lions tour so they'll be fighting fit to take on the Dragons, Zebre & Cardiff when the Pro12 resumes in front of 9,000 at the RDS or half that when we play away from home?


Sound exactly like the direction we should be moving in, maybe we should wear pink tutus also?
the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Mullet
 
Posts: 1688
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 11:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Next

Return to International Rugby

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest