Scrap the Lions?

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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby LENSTA » April 21st, 2017, 11:02 am

Lar wrote:
LENSTA wrote:11 Irish for the NZ suicide tour. How many won't return or will come back never to be the same again? Best case scenario we only lose two. Worst case we lose five.

The whole thing is a huge non contest. Already know it will be 3 zip. If this one is as big a disaster as the last trip to NZ, it might actually bring an end to the whole jaded pompous gravy train.

Nobody would be more disappointed than NZ/SA/Aus. The Lions is just a surreptitious mechanism to finance our own subjugation.


Potentially a reason why NZ might conceivably lose a test this summer deliberately. If the result is in the balance going into the final test then the Lions will survive and bring lucre to the SH teams for at least the next 12 years.


I can see NZ whipping the Lions in the first two tests and then putting out a youthful experimental side in the third test, in the hope that the Lions will be more competitive. This would lessen questions about the rationale of the whole exercise.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Dave Cahill » April 21st, 2017, 11:24 am

Those questions are irrelevant anyway. This is the last tour under the current participation agreement, and the next contract will be massively in the favour of the Four Nations. The last agreement was signed when the game was massively in flux, when no one even knew if International rugby would exist in the near future, never mind touring teams so the agreement favoured the hosts as they were taking the risks. Now that we know that the Lions are the biggest event in Rugby and there are no risks.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby neiliog93 » April 21st, 2017, 1:59 pm

I assume then that future tours would have fewer games? The problem with that is that it means less dosh. On the other hand, if you change it to the same number of games but with longer rest periods in between them, then the tour (which is already too long) gets even worse in that regard. How then do they amend future tours to make them more Lions-friendly?
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Oldschool » April 21st, 2017, 3:07 pm

dropkick wrote:
Lar wrote:
LENSTA wrote:11 Irish for the NZ suicide tour. How many won't return or will come back never to be the same again? Best case scenario we only lose two. Worst case we lose five.

The whole thing is a huge non contest. Already know it will be 3 zip. If this one is as big a disaster as the last trip to NZ, it might actually bring an end to the whole jaded pompous gravy train.

Nobody would be more disappointed than NZ/SA/Aus. The Lions is just a surreptitious mechanism to finance our own subjugation.


Potentially a reason why NZ might conceivably lose a test this summer deliberately. If the result is in the balance going into the final test then the Lions will survive and bring lucre to the SH teams for at least the next 12 years.



I can imagine someone asking the NZ players or coaches to take it easy on the Lions. They'll go all out to annihilate the Lions by as much as they can.

Its a good money making excercise for the broadcasters and the SH big 3. The home nations get a tired and injured squad the next season and an extended season to look forward to soon because super rugby had to take A break because of an international window. :lol:

France love the Lion's tours.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Dave Cahill » April 21st, 2017, 4:10 pm

neiliog93 wrote:I assume then that future tours would have fewer games? The problem with that is that it means less dosh. On the other hand, if you change it to the same number of games but with longer rest periods in between them, then the tour (which is already too long) gets even worse in that regard. How then do they amend future tours to make them more Lions-friendly?


I think that the assumption that the 4 nations have a problem with the length of the tour is a big one to make without a lot of evidence behind it. The English clubs mightn't be overly fond, but thats about it.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby simonokeeffe » April 21st, 2017, 6:56 pm

RFU calling for next/future tours to be 8 games not 10, beeb article saying global calender will force shorter tours
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Dave Cahill » April 21st, 2017, 7:01 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:RFU calling for next/future tours to be 8 games not 10, beeb article saying global calender will force shorter tours



Thats the RFU who are calling for a 5 year qualification period the week before picking Denny Solamona, yeah?

They call for lots of things in public.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Peg Leg » April 21st, 2017, 10:36 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:RFU calling for next/future tours to be 8 games not 10, beeb article saying global calender will force shorter tours



Thats the RFU who are calling for a 5 year qualification period the week before picking Denny Solamona, yeah?

They call for lots of things in public.

Ah DC, that's harsh. England is where his heart is.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby hugonaut » April 22nd, 2017, 2:52 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:RFU calling for next/future tours to be 8 games not 10, beeb article saying global calender will force shorter tours



Thats the RFU who are calling for a 5 year qualification period the week before picking Denny Solamona, yeah?

They call for lots of things in public.


Ian Ritchie, as anybody with a grasp of English authority would expect, is a complete and utter hypocrite. His behaviour could be shown as an exemplar of the trait, viz. "behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."

"Our view will be, and this is subject to further discussion but it's coming up soon, that a five-year qualification is the optimum position to be in. There are other countries who will take a different view, I think, and that's up to them."

source: http://www.newstalk.com/English-RFU-pus ... dency-rule

In this instance, championing and campaigning for the change of a law they 'disagree' with, then proceeding to exploit said law. I don't give a sh*t if they cap DS ... but climb down off your moral Shetland pony, you smug c*nt.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Oldschool » April 22nd, 2017, 8:40 am

On the issue of contract renewal, Ireland's negotiators need to be very clear that they own 25% of the franchise and accordingly they want 25% of the action.
Any attempt by PRL to muscle in should be shown the door.
The PRL and the RFU can come to their own arrangement which should be paid out of the RFU's 25%.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby simonokeeffe » April 22nd, 2017, 11:32 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:RFU calling for next/future tours to be 8 games not 10, beeb article saying global calender will force shorter tours



Thats the RFU who are calling for a 5 year qualification period the week before picking Denny Solamona, yeah?

They call for lots of things in public.


Thought Eddie Jones picked the team
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby BlueBlue » May 17th, 2017, 9:52 am

Dave Cahill wrote:Those questions are irrelevant anyway. This is the last tour under the current participation agreement, and the next contract will be massively in the favour of the Four Nations. The last agreement was signed when the game was massively in flux, when no one even knew if International rugby would exist in the near future, never mind touring teams so the agreement favoured the hosts as they were taking the risks. Now that we know that the Lions are the biggest event in Rugby and there are no risks.


I'd like to believe that, but I don't. My prediction is that the hosts will get a better deal than the current one. NZ have a habit of getting what they want, that backed by SA and Oz is pretty compelling. Argentina also now have voting rights and are politically equal to the big 8, they have arrived.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Grumpy Old Man » May 17th, 2017, 9:59 am

BlueBlue wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Those questions are irrelevant anyway. This is the last tour under the current participation agreement, and the next contract will be massively in the favour of the Four Nations. The last agreement was signed when the game was massively in flux, when no one even knew if International rugby would exist in the near future, never mind touring teams so the agreement favoured the hosts as they were taking the risks. Now that we know that the Lions are the biggest event in Rugby and there are no risks.


I'd like to believe that, but I don't. My prediction is that the hosts will get a better deal than the current one. NZ have a habit of getting what they want, that backed by SA and Oz is pretty compelling. Argentina also now have voting rights and are politically equal to the big 8, they have arrived.


Maybe the Lions should add Argentina and japan to their schedule - i'm sure the old tri-nations would love that.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby BlueBlue » May 17th, 2017, 10:01 am

neiliog93 wrote:I assume then that future tours would have fewer games? The problem with that is that it means less dosh. On the other hand, if you change it to the same number of games but with longer rest periods in between them, then the tour (which is already too long) gets even worse in that regard. How then do they amend future tours to make them more Lions-friendly?


The challenge the Lions have is the one of becoming a team. The lions do not want less time and less games, they want the same amount of games and more time. I believe it has already been agreed that the lions would only have 8 weeks, and as Cafferty from AP said, its up to them how many games they fit in.

Already on this tour, the best Lions players or at least a good number of them will not be heading out with the squad as the AP and Pro12 finals will be played after departure date. Already 50% of the squad in in camp, with the players who have made it to finals being rewarded by being left out. Madness in terms of team building.

I'd say the Lions would be happy with 12 weeks and 9 to 10 games. 2 to 3 weeks to prepare, then fly, then play.

The lions are on record, from the oz tour of saying that the 7 matches leading up to the 1st test were not competitive, and that they need commitments that the 7 teams put out before a test are competitive, not depleted squads.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby BlueBlue » May 17th, 2017, 10:09 am

Grumpy Old Man wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Those questions are irrelevant anyway. This is the last tour under the current participation agreement, and the next contract will be massively in the favour of the Four Nations. The last agreement was signed when the game was massively in flux, when no one even knew if International rugby would exist in the near future, never mind touring teams so the agreement favoured the hosts as they were taking the risks. Now that we know that the Lions are the biggest event in Rugby and there are no risks.


I'd like to believe that, but I don't. My prediction is that the hosts will get a better deal than the current one. NZ have a habit of getting what they want, that backed by SA and Oz is pretty compelling. Argentina also now have voting rights and are politically equal to the big 8, they have arrived.


Maybe the Lions should add Argentina and japan to their schedule - i'm sure the old tri-nations would love that.



There is tradition in the lions touring Argentina. But other than playing in the capital, its pretty backward and dangerous. Irelands last tour to Argentina games were in the provinces, they were accompanied full time by an Argentinian special forces unit. Also who would the lions play, there is only 1 super rugby team. Japan is the same, its a joke and any suggestion to tour there would be greeted by laughter.

We see it from our perspective as the lions holding the cards, but the Lions are a none event without somewhere credible to tour. It there is no where to tour, its our tradition and money that is lost. The old Tri-nations hold more of the cards that we give credit for.

Also it seems to me, that the lions, and 4 nations are traditionally reactionary and lack balls, Id question they have any balls at all in fact.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby hugonaut » May 17th, 2017, 2:01 pm

BlueBlue wrote:st tour to Argentina games were in the provinces, they were accompanied full time by an Argentinian special forces unit. Also who would the lions play, there is only 1 super rugby team. Japan is the same, its a joke and any suggestion to tour there would be greeted by laughter.

We see it from our perspective as the lions holding the cards, but the Lions are a none event without somewhere credible to tour. It there is no where to tour, its our tradition and money that is lost. The old Tri-nations hold more of the cards that we give credit for.

Also it seems to me, that the lions, and 4 nations are traditionally reactionary and lack balls, Id question they have any balls at all in fact.


Argentina is backward and dangerous? No it ain't.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Dave Cahill » May 17th, 2017, 2:36 pm

hugonaut wrote:
Argentina is backward and dangerous? No it ain't.


Organisationally it certainly is backward - touring there, outside of BA, is a bit of a nightmare. For example, venues for matches are often not settled on until the week of the test. Logistically and in terms of broadcasting this makes touring there very unattractive.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Lar » May 17th, 2017, 2:55 pm

hugonaut wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:st tour to Argentina games were in the provinces, they were accompanied full time by an Argentinian special forces unit. Also who would the lions play, there is only 1 super rugby team. Japan is the same, its a joke and any suggestion to tour there would be greeted by laughter.

We see it from our perspective as the lions holding the cards, but the Lions are a none event without somewhere credible to tour. It there is no where to tour, its our tradition and money that is lost. The old Tri-nations hold more of the cards that we give credit for.

Also it seems to me, that the lions, and 4 nations are traditionally reactionary and lack balls, Id question they have any balls at all in fact.


Argentina is backward and dangerous? No it ain't.


Ask Jeremy Clarkson


this is mostly a joke and I fully accept there were particular 'English' reasons for what happened but they could theoretically be repeated for a Lions tour
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby Lar » May 17th, 2017, 2:56 pm

BlueBlue wrote:
Also it seems to me, that the lions, and 4 nations are traditionally reactionary and lack balls, Id question they have any balls at all in fact.


Could they not get Gilbert as a sponsor?
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Postby LENSTA » May 18th, 2017, 2:18 pm

Lar wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:st tour to Argentina games were in the provinces, they were accompanied full time by an Argentinian special forces unit. Also who would the lions play, there is only 1 super rugby team. Japan is the same, its a joke and any suggestion to tour there would be greeted by laughter.

We see it from our perspective as the lions holding the cards, but the Lions are a none event without somewhere credible to tour. It there is no where to tour, its our tradition and money that is lost. The old Tri-nations hold more of the cards that we give credit for.

Also it seems to me, that the lions, and 4 nations are traditionally reactionary and lack balls, Id question they have any balls at all in fact.


Argentina is backward and dangerous? No it ain't.


Ask Jeremy Clarkson


this is mostly a joke and I fully accept there were particular 'English' reasons for what happened but they could theoretically be repeated for a Lions tour



Argentina is a lot safer than South Africa, massively safer, if you look at murder rate stats. I visited Argentina, admittedly before their recent economic turmoil, and I didn't find it dangerous or backward. I would happily go back again.

Anyone want to walk back to the hotel from the nightclub in Jo'burg????


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