Ireland v Wales 6Ns 2016

[LeinsterLeader]

Conor Murray head and shoulders the best player yesterday. Terrific.

White McCarthy and Zebo were probably the three that found the level toughest, but all of them did good stuff. The thing with Zebo is his bad stuff is probably worse than his good stuff is good, at fullback. At wing, its a different story.

Backline still isn't firing and we're back to our bad habits of smashing it up one-out for 75% of phases. Would have thought we'd show more for having been in camp and having been through the RWC where that didn't work.

They were there for the taking. Back row misfiring, Biggar out and Liam Williams having a mare. .. It was there for us. Wales will be the happier team but a draw doesn't suit either team. Have to win out to do it, Id say.

This sums it up for me, good point.

We still need a little more subtlety in back play, but there were flashes of better stuff, particularly when we used screens to get Sexton free and pre-planned offload moves.
When attacking from 5 metres out though we might as well take a drop goal, because we're pretty much toothless from that far out.

Hmmm.......where else do I see this?

[Fireworks]

Zebo continued in the vain of a promising young guy who will make some mistakes. You could accept that except he should have grown out of that by now as he is supposed to be one of the senior guys. What he did well was in attack and highlighted what we have not seen from RK in the last few years, though this could be down to tactics. What he did badly highlighted why we need RK back. He made some really silly mistakes.

I have not had a chance to look back at the game or the lead up to the welsh try so please do not hang me if I get this wrong. To me the first and most important issue is that we ended up defending the 5m scrum. It was a good kick through which left Trimble with little option but what I noticed was Zebo not killing himself to get across to offer Trimble the option of the pass. Zebo could never have got to it himself but he could have got in to place to help out. For me that one phase was the losing of the game. Zebo gets across, Trimble passes, Zebo kicks and we are defending a lineout just outside the 22.

The second issue for me comes back to the ref and the scrum. I think that ball came out the side because the scrum was crabbing which should call for a reset. I do think that the ref is right to not blow up ever scrum issue and I light the fact that he calls on the 9 to play the ball when it is at the 8's feet and the front rows go down. For me that is fine but I do not like earlier infractions being let go.

[enby]

Martyn Williams made the point on Rugby Special last night that Johnny was positioned way too far away from the scrum leaving an acre of space for Faletau to attack. I think he has a point. It is particularly apparent on the ref cam replay of the try.

In the first half when we were attacking the Welsh line their defenders were repeatedly throwing themselves at the feet of the ball carrier without attempting to tackle. You can see it in the last phase before Murray's try and, crucially, on the occasion they went to the TMO when Stander got over. Tipuric made no attempt to tackle but just fell under Stander thereby preventing him from grounding the ball. TMO should have given a penalty try for that

[Aird]

Simple solution bring either McCloskey or Luke Marshall into the centre and move Payne to Fullback, and get rid of Zebo or if Earls not available put him on the wing.
Or if Sexton not fit start Jackson, McCloskey and Marshal, and put either Henshaw or Payne full back with the other replacing D.Kearney on the bench.
This would give a bit of familiarity in the Backline and they have already dealt with Toulouse back line in the SDC.

[Golf Man]

In general you couldn't be too disappointed and I was happily surprised with a lot of the elements of our play - that said 13-0 up and Biggar gone off - we should not be letting them back into the game

Defence was obviously very very good but attack was a bit blunt again ,e especially in their 22 - consistently going one out - we know that Wales can defend this we needed a bit of variation.

Pack was a bit of a mixed bag - scrum was poor and lineout wasn't great (it survived but we never really looked comfortable). Think Wales won the tight but we won in the loos e- Back row all played well - particularly Stander and Heaslip - both got through a huge amount of work. Stander had no problem with the step up and Heaslip looked like he reacted to having a viable contender for his jersey - they had more balance than I thought as well - all good in that area

Murray and Sexton were good - Murray had his best game in some time imo

Centres brilliant in defence but the questions re attack remain

Restarts were deperate - didn't even look like winning one
Earls was excellent in defence. Trimble had his moments but mixed with some bad stuff. Zebo getting huge flak unsurprisingly and equal;ly unsusporisingly its over the top - 1 bad kick, couple of iffy ones (although he was kind of left with little option with some of those) and some positional issues - no surprise to me - he has been playing wing all season - I wish Munster would just start him at 15 and give him the gametime, His poitives were very good and us having a real attacking option at 15 is a huge plus, that is definitely missing when Kearney plays

Next week - SOB if fit comes straight in for TOD. I'd start Ryan over McCarthy (rotation more than anything else - better option in lineout and McCarthy is going to be goosed after that). Ross if fit wil come straight in. Kearney if fit will come straight in at 15 - Payne aint going to be moved. If earls is out them I'd start Zebo on the wing, otherwise Zebo to bench

[Golf Man]

Simple solution bring either McCloskey or Luke Marshall into the centre and move Payne to Fullback, and get rid of Zebo or if Earls not available put him on the wing.
Or if Sexton not fit start Jackson, McCloskey and Marshal, and put either Henshaw or Payne full back with the other replacing D.Kearney on the bench.
This would give a bit of familiarity in the Backline and they have already dealt with Toulouse back line in the SDC.

Simple solution but it isn't going to happen. Payne is seemingly inked in at 13 - think he is one of the first names on the team sheet. No problem with Henshaw going to full back but don't want to start moving him around too much. MCloskey I think can do what Henshaw is doing at 12 but do it better - but I think we will only see him if we are essentially out of the championship and definitely not next week - if we lose next week he might change thing v England, if we win he definitely won't

[fourthirtythree]

Henshaw played full back for a season and I'm sure he could be good there - he played there once for the Wolfhounds but had a not very good game - I just don't see why we should move him from the centre. I thought he was going to be OC for this match given the provincial selections in the previous weeks but Luke's injury made Schmidt change his mind.

Still time to put Payne at full back, Zebo showed that he can't be trusted there and we are down our best winger and he should be more comfortable there.

Murray was excellent, but we know he is that good when on form, so for me Stander playing so well at six and removing the team's reliance on the injury prone Healy, Henderson, and O'Brien as ball carrying options was the big take away from that match. Tipuric had eyes only for him giving Murray the easy try.

[Golf Man]

Henshaw played full back for a season and I'm sure he could be good there - he played there once for the Wolfhounds but had a not very good game - I just don't see why we should move him from the centre. I thought he was going to be OC for this match given the provincial selections in the previous weeks but Luke's injury made Schmidt change his mind.

Still time to put Payne at full back, Zebo showed that he can't be trusted there and we are down our best winger and he should be more comfortable there.

Murray was excellent, but we know he is that good when on form, so for me Stander playing so well at six and removing the team's reliance on the injury prone Healy, Henderson, and O'Brien as ball carrying options was the big take away from that match. Tipuric had eyes only for him giving Murray the easy try.

Luke Fitzgeralds injury had nothing to do with Henshaws selection at IC or OC??? He said himself he was expecting to be on the bench. Schmidt said that he looked at McCloskey and Marshall, McLoskey/Payne and obviously went with Henshaw/Payne. Tbh I think at the moment that Payne is the first outside back on the team sheet at 13 - I don't see there being any huge change there unless its injury enforced. We might see Henshaw at 15 but I'd be surprised. we have the optiosn but not sure when and if we are going to utilise them

Zebo - I think some are a bit harsh but he is either primarily a winger backing up the full back within the 23 or goes back to Munster and plays 15 - he is more than capable at 15 ( I think the ctricism is way way overt the tope but that comes with Zebo) but if he is to be an option there then he needs to get gametime there

Backrow stocks are excellent - POM, Henry, SOB, Heaslip, Stander all look top class and Ruddock and TOD have always been able to step without abny effect on the team - should allow Henderson to move full time into second row when he is bnack

[LeRouxIsPHat]

It really was brutal. Rare that you get games of that physical intensity for the majority of the 80 minutes. With that in mind I'd make plenty of changes for next week but am sure that wont be the case. The difference that SOB, Rob at fullback, and Zebo back to the wing could make could be huge. Don't think Zebo is usually that bad at his actual fullback duties but he had a nightmare positionally, under the high ball, and with the boot. As dangerous as he was in attack, thought he could have passed to Earls when he made the break from deep in the first half. He made yards but think he could have done better. But I'm looking forward to him getting on the ball and playmaking from the wing next weekend.

Our clear outs were brilliant for the whole game. Really surprised that we were able to keep that up the whole time.

All in all there really isn't much I'd have changed. For me it was Garces getting the scrum calls wrong that cost us, not our own play. He always allows a good contest at the breakdown, which I like, but it was ridiculous not to give us more penalties all the same and some of the calls that went against us were just plain wrong. The game really changed with Earls' tackle but I thought that was really unlucky tbh. We'll miss his aggressive defence next week although we'll need something a bit different against France anyway.

Really impressed with how balanced the back row looked and it really is amazing how so many players have now been able to slot in perfectly to the system under Joe.

I'd usually be disappointed after a draw but really it was mostly an excellent performance against a very good side. My only frustration was Garces. Glad we didn't throw more debutantes in now, that could have been very very ugly for Dillane and McCloskey. Nothing against them but it would have been a huge ask to get up to that intensity straight away.

[Golf Man]

Nightmare positionally, under the highball and kicking is overstating it for Zebo - other players have played a lot worse, costing the team more and wouldn't get the same criticism - I agree that he should start at wing next week though assuming Earls is out

Garces - his refereeing of the breakdown is mental - he allows a contest but gives way too much leeway to the attacking side to my mind - he is erring the right way for the sake of eth game but it makes turnovers almost impossible to get (his reffing on the choke was inconsistent as well)

On the non debutants - maybe McLoskey would have had a bit of a shock - but sometimes you just hav eto go with it - if there was a game v Georgia or Canada or something then grand - but I don't think you have to wait. Whenever McCloseky gest his game it will be a step up - Wales probably have the biggest centres and backs in general at the minute but MClsokey is as big as any of them. Dillane is in a different boat. I think McCloskey could be like Henshaw and just take to it straight away - might be summer before we find out though

[the spoofer]

Nightmare positionally, under the highball and kicking is overstating it for Zebo - other players have played a lot worse, costing the team more and wouldn't get the same criticism - I agree that he should start at wing next week though assuming Earls is out

Garces - his refereeing of the breakdown is mental - he allows a contest but gives way too much leeway to the attacking side to my mind - he is erring the right way for the sake of eth game but it makes turnovers almost impossible to get (his reffing on the choke was inconsistent as well)

On the non debutants - maybe McLoskey would have had a bit of a shock - but sometimes you just hav eto go with it - if there was a game v Georgia or Canada or something then grand - but I don't think you have to wait. Whenever McCloseky gest his game it will be a step up - Wales probably have the biggest centres and backs in general at the minute but MClsokey is as big as any of them. Dillane is in a different boat. I think McCloskey could be like Henshaw and just take to it straight away - might be summer before we find out though

Zebo was all sorts of shite.

Dropped the first ball kicked to him
Beaten by Biggar for next
Should have passed to Earls and supported instead went himself
Kicked out on the full
Missed William so badly from Murrays box kick
kicked aimlessly down field to invite Wales onto us near end.

That's just the obvious ones that stood out from one viewing. He made a total of two tackles in the game.

If any other player, especially a full back, had put in that performance then they would have been gutted by the media.

[fourthirtythree]

Yeah, not really much point defending Zebo's game. He picked up a bit in the second half in that he had the ball in attack which is nice to see and looks good running - but in the primary functions of a full back he was badly exposed.

Not his position.

As you say Spoofer if the litany of clangers had been from certain other players their heads would be on spikes outside Independent Towers.

[Golf Man]

Yeah, not really much point defending Zebo's game. He picked up a bit in the second half in that he had the ball in attack which is nice to see and looks good running - but in the primary functions of a full back he was badly exposed.

Not his position.

As you say Spoofer if the litany of clangers had been from certain other players their heads would be on spikes outside Independent Towers.

Zebo had some bad moments buy your analysis is completely one eyed - sad to see an attacking full back being gutted by Leinster fans this way

Other players have been far far more guilty of clangesr which actually cost the team, and have been retained - what Zebo showed in that we need a fb who plays there week in week out and the positioning comes naturally (which obviously isn't the case for him atm - but no context allowed for that in the analysis on here) and that we could really do with an attacking option from full back.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That's a fair point, the fact that other players made mistakes in the past means that Zebo didn't make mistakes yesterday and should be immune from criticism.

[waterboy]

Other players have been far far more guilty of clangesr which actually cost the team

Zebo was awol for the kick behind Trimble which led to the Welsh scrum on our 5 metre line, which Wales then scored their try from. It was one of a litany of situational clangers he made right throughout the game. He hadn't a rashers of where he should be and shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish 15 jersey. There's more to playing full back than just making one or two highlight reel carries. He also nearly gifted Liam Williams a try by dropping a fairly straight forward catch over the line only for Williams to knock it on. We'd probably have won yesterday if we'd had a full back playing full back.

Leave him on the wing where he belongs and where he can let his mind wander for a while and is less likely to costs us.

Trying to defend his game yesterday is ridiculous.

[fourthirtythree]

Joe will give him a right bollocking for strolling across rather than supporting Tremble.

As for concern trolling about how sad it is Leinster supporters criticising an "attacking" read poor fullback: most of us could see why Dempsey played so much ahead of Kearney. It is because we appreciate back play rather than just thinking a couple of runs in which came to nothing make a great player. He had a poor game. Wasn't what I'd focus on from the game but your concern trolling can't stand.

[Oldschool]

In general you couldn't be too disappointed and I was happily surprised with a lot of the elements of our play - that said 13-0 up and Biggar gone off - we should not be letting them back into the game

Defence was obviously very very good but attack was a bit blunt again ,e especially in their 22 - consistently going one out - we know that Wales can defend this we needed a bit of variation.

Pack was a bit of a mixed bag - scrum was poor and lineout wasn't great (it survived but we never really looked comfortable). Think Wales won the tight but we won in the loos e- Back row all played well - particularly Stander and Heaslip - both got through a huge amount of work. Stander had no problem with the step up and Heaslip looked like he reacted to having a viable contender for his jersey - they had more balance than I thought as well - all good in that area

Murray and Sexton were good - Murray had his best game in some time imo

Centres brilliant in defence but the questions re attack remain

Restarts were deperate - didn't even look like winning one
Earls was excellent in defence. Trimble had his moments but mixed with some bad stuff. Zebo getting huge flak unsurprisingly and equal;ly unsusporisingly its over the top - 1 bad kick, couple of iffy ones (although he was kind of left with little option with some of those) and some positional issues - no surprise to me - he has been playing wing all season - I wish Munster would just start him at 15 and give him the gametime, His poitives were very good and us having a real attacking option at 15 is a huge plus, that is definitely missing when Kearney plays

Next week - SOB if fit comes straight in for TOD. I'd start Ryan over McCarthy (rotation more than anything else - better option in lineout and McCarthy is going to be goosed after that). Ross if fit wil come straight in. Kearney if fit will come straight in at 15 - Payne aint going to be moved. If earls is out them I'd start Zebo on the wing, otherwise Zebo to bench

Murray - Don't get me wrong I think he had a good game but if we are to move to the next level then his pass and/or delivery of the ball has to be quicker, it just has to be quicker.
Restarts - The restarts were consistently long. That surely was intentional. Perhaps it was felt that Wyn Jones would dominate the restarts so better to push Wales back with the restarts and force them to kick than hand them the ball on the 10m line from where they could have a cut at us.
Zebo - Think some of the criticism is ott. He's not a FB. If it had been Madigan in the same position I'd cut him the same slack.
Like Earls play him on the wing or don't play him. Against Wales Joe, realistically, had run out of options at FB and Zebo got the nod.
Stander had a great debut, just when we needed fresh blood in the carrying role. Didn't realise he was 18stn. Given his height that's going to be hard to stop.
Stander, SOB and Jamie will be something else.
BTW Heaslip simply played to his normal level at international and once again he showed his ability to fill a Richie McCaw type role in our BR. Leave the sly digs back where they belong.
With Donal "Tremenjous" Lenihan making the MOM call, I was able to predict with absolute certainty who was going to get the MOM after about ten minutes into the game. That's just me having a sly dig - Not nice is it.

[Golf Man]

Other players have been far far more guilty of clangesr which actually cost the team

Zebo was awol for the kick behind Trimble which led to the Welsh scrum on our 5 metre line, which Wales then scored their try from. It was one of a litany of situational clangers he made right throughout the game. He hadn't a rashers of where he should be and shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish 15 jersey. There's more to playing full back than just making one or two highlight reel carries. He also nearly gifted Liam Williams a try by dropping a fairly straight forward catch over the line only for Williams to knock it on. We'd probably have won yesterday if we'd had a full back playing full back.

Leave him on the wing where he belongs and where he can let his mind wander for a while and is less likely to costs us.

Trying to defend his game yesterday is ridiculous.

spoofeR - have a look at the42.ie analysis of our defence - no blame attached to zebo there - he could possibly have done better

the other one where we are on a complete scramble and he is defending in his in goal with two attackers bearing down on him - fairly straight forward catch - try to have some balance

joke bias on here as bad as I've seen

[janeymac08]

Joe will give him a right bollocking for strolling across rather than supporting Tremble.

As for concern trolling about how sad it is Leinster supporters criticising an "attacking" read poor fullback: most of us could see why Dempsey played so much ahead of Kearney. It is because we appreciate back play rather than just thinking a couple of runs in which came to nothing make a great player. He had a poor game. Wasn't what I'd focus on from the game but your concern trolling can't stand.

I'd say Joe will do no such thing bearing in mind the strapped up left knee and amount of treatment Zebo was getting from 4 minutes into the game.

I thought Trimble was very slow getting back and looked like he didn't expect tipuric to be on top of him as quickly as he was.

[simonokeeffe]

Tipuric did a lot of damage in that game, a lot of it illegal, but effective

Warburton was a bit of a passenger, dont know if its a case of either or both of not match fit/sharp or out of position