France V Ireland 6Ns 2016

[ribs]

McCarty will be a big loss. Even though he can't last the full 80 he was immense in the defensive effort. Glad to have ryan on the bench too

[simonokeeffe]

he didn't said he had Lloyd at McCoskey payne and mclosky Marshall as well as incumbents -Fitz at 12 was never mentioned apart from bench cover

if I got that wrong fair enough

but youve the poshest autocorrect ever

I do wish Joe would stop complaining about refs though

[Bluebulls]

The game turned on 62 mins when the French props were replaced. We were destroyed in the scrum and poor furlong took a hammering. I am a fan of his but he is not near the level of Ross or Moore as a scrummager at this level. For the past two years we had Ross and Moore to anchor us and without them we are badly exposed. Joe better wrap Ross in cotton wool and pre book Flights for Moore from Coventry for next couple of years!!

[hugonaut]

Tough loss on the day. A one-point loss in Paris with a half-strength team and multiple serious injuries collected during the match isn't the end of the world, as some of the [Munster-based] posters on this board seemingly wish it to be.

Obviously our scrum really struggled when we [and France] made substitutions. With Ross, Healy, Moore and Henderson missing, that was always going to be a possibility. I was surprised to see Devin switch to the tighthead side for scrums when Mike McCarthy was stretchered off on 62 minutes. Both Ryan and Toner by preference scrummage on the left hand side, so it would have made sense to me to have the fresher of the two scrummaging in the tougher spot, rather than the guy who has already played an hour of a very physical game.

Tommy O'Donnell has to do a little bit better at getting off the side of the scrum to make his tackles. He's in a tough position with a scrum under pressure, but both tries we have conceded in this tournament thus far have come off scrums close to the Irish line with his defense being totally inadequate. It's a tough job, but if it was easy, more people would have played test rugby.

Madigan's restart going out on the full was absolutely critical. After having spent seven or so minutes under our own posts to concede a try and go behind by one point for the first time in the game, to put it straight out and give them a scrum with ten minutes remaining was a huge error. Jackson has been playing well and deserves to get a shot on the bench [at least]. He has gone some way to address his goal-kicking fallibility, and his attacking game for Ulster has been very impressive, so he has earned the shot.

Thank f*ck we have a couple of weeks off before we have to play England. Serious carnage out there and a completely underwhelming refereeing performance from Jaco Peyper.

[Golf Man]

While you have some good points that's a little bit head in the sand response. There are a couple of munster fans who will hope schmidt fails no different to the few leinster fans who hoped the same for kidney

on the scrum - injuries are injuries you have to get on with it - healy is no great loss shouldn't be in the 23 atm anyway - asking mcgrath to play 80 v Wales and 75 v france is on schmidt.

tod could possibly have done a bit better but henshaws defence was way worse - imo that wasn't planned by france though - we were going to concede a pt and have a yellow card (which we should have had anyway). focusing on tod is a bit weird - we had far bigger issues

putting the result in a historical context is a bit pointless - first defeat v france since 2011 is a better way of putting it.

You also don't address the single biggest issue - our absolute inability to do anything with a huge amount of possession in the first half and our continued rubbish attack

rob Kearney was woeful yesterday - zebo was pilloried on here for a far better display last week. Heaslip went missing and McFadden was in the 23 - schmidt needs to look at what is in front of him and arrest the slide

[Raydollard]

It is a scandal that Jackson, the finest outhalf in the Northern Hemisphere, is not even getting the paltry few minutes that the completely useless Madigan gets.

[Twist]

Isn't Dan Carter in the NH??

[ribs]

Neither Kearney nor Zebo have looked like International fullbacks in the last two games. But if Payne is out who have we left?

[jezzer]

Might have been the most pedestrian back line we have put out in the 6n since the game went pro, esp after DK went off.

The are other options. I'm not saying we would have won playing those options but at least we'd have had a cutting edge.

Hard to be down considering how many good players were out but we look stale with anything other than starter moves.

[flustered]

Should have been at least 10/12 points better off at half time and imo would have won the game. Madigans restart was shocking but Kearney's awful kick before all that was worse, great position on the pitch with Sexton/Kearney split, kick the ball into their 22 and let them play it out, we had feck all of the ball after this. RK was poor again, it would be great to see McCloskey/Henshaw (or Henshaw/Marshall) against England with Payne at FB but do we lose out on Paynes defensive nous, he is a great defender (our game plan doesn't allow him to show his attacking skills).

I would throw the shackles off from now on, play all these new fresher players and see how they go, nothing to lose now as we wont win the championship

[WarPoodle]

Madigan's restart going out on the full was absolutely critical. After having spent seven or so minutes under our own posts to concede a try and go behind by one point for the first time in the game, to put it straight out and give them a scrum with ten minutes remaining was a huge error. Jackson has been playing well and deserves to get a shot on the bench [at least]. He has gone some way to address his goal-kicking fallibility, and his attacking game for Ulster has been very impressive, so he has earned the shot.

Agreed..

[the spoofer]

We really need to have a look at options at 15. RK is done, he has not been the same player since he hurt himself in the Sportsground a few years back.

I'm finally convinced that Madigan's move to France is not the disaster for us that I thought it would be. He is playing really poorly. Ferg was really poor, three missed tackles.

[Golf Man]

We really need to have a look at options at 15. RK is done, he has not been the same player since he hurt himself in the Sportsground a few years back.

I'm finally convinced that Madigan's move to France is not the disaster for us that I thought it would be. He is playing really poorly. Ferg was really poor, three missed tackles.

15 - I fully expect to see Kearney at 15 and Henshaw/Payne in centre for England. Kearney should absolutely be dropped - he was woeful on Saturday - think he was tuned over twice, threw a stupid off load (I'm slow to criticise an attempt at an offload, but on the front foot in their 22 and he throws it completely blind?), a couple of very poor kicks and the usual effectiveness in attack. Henshaw and Payne have been an very good partnership and its hard to criticise them but Schmidt admitted himself that its a kind of manufactured partnership - the options are there now to change, so we don't need the fabricated partnership. McCloskey simply has to come in - the most in form back in the country for most of the last year and an absolute physical beast - he's a bit of a one off and we need to bring him in and f**k that its England away. I'd prefer to see Payne at 13 but don't think he'll move Payne - that would be a bit too much for Schmidt imo. Henshaw an option at 15 as well obviously. You could also of course drop Henshaw and play Zebo - unfair on Henshaw but something has to happen in attack.

Madigan - simply hasn't become the player he looked like he would and should not be in the 23 for the rest of the 6N - the repeated same mistakes should have seen this happen before now

McFadden even being there was all on Schmidt - he has had Gilroy in squads and didn't call anyone up for Fitzgerald - why not bring Gilroy ion and have him as the backup - covers the back3 and dogs on the street could have told you that McFadden is shot - pace seems to be gone, defensive stability is gone and nerves seem to be shot as well - he had one really bad kick that was like an u-10's kick - had time but just panicked and kicked aimlessly

We have the personnel to have a good attack (without compromising defensively) but we have a big issue in the front five. I don't think you can really fault selection in any way for the front five especially given injuries. That said I think Schmidts bench use has been poor - MCGrath has been heroic the first two games, but we are just asking too much of him , especially given that there are options. Likewise White and McCarthy - poor use of resources given the short turnaround

I'd like to see this for England (on assumption Ross is back and SOB/McCarthy is out)

McGrath/Best/Ross
Ryan/Toner
Stander/TOD/Heaslip
Murray/Sexton
McCloskey/Payne
Zebo/Henshaw/Earls

Cronin/Cronin/Furlong/Dillane/Ruddock/Marmion/Jackson/Trimble

Props to get at least 20/25 minutes - they need gametime

[Peg Leg]

@GMan,
only thing I would change with that line up is the numbers on Payne & Henshaws back.
Would prefer to see Reddan and someone with pace in the 23 jersey.

[All Blacks nil]

I would go with Golf mans 12,13,15. Payne is a serious defensive operator at 13 and seems to be the defensive lynchpin. I don't believe Joe would change (understandably so) both centres to accomodate a new inside centre.

One thing about picking McCloskey is that Joe will have to let him play his game to be effective. His attacking game is all about getting his hands free in contact and offloading.
If that happens expect to see more strike running from the outside backs as space opens up. If it doesn't expect to see more of the same as Ireland commit 2 or 3 players to secure possession at the breakdown leaving the other 11/12 to attack against 13/14 until we eventually get turned over/knock on/penalised.
Change the mindset.

[Golf Man]

@GMan,
only thing I would change with that line up is the numbers on Payne & Henshaws back.
Would prefer to see Reddan and someone with pace in the 23 jersey.

I would as well (on Payne and Henshaw) but I just don't see it happening (and I can kind of understand the thinking why not)

Reddan - no - we need to move on. They are all a huge step down but lets at least give Marmion some chance

Pace in the 23 - I don't really have a problem with Trimble starting and zebo on the bench. Gilroy or Healy are trhe only other options - they are not going to happen - wonder if Mcaffden will be kept in the squad ahead of Gilroy? - that would be pretty shameful

As someone else said it really mindset though - we are not going to beat England with a fully defensive gameplan - Imo its the exact game to bring M<cCloskey in - target Ford/Farrell and Joseph - we need top not fling the ball around aimlessly but play with more speed and spread the game a bit more th endless one outs will be lapped up by England

[rooster]

I would go with Golf mans 12,13,15. Payne is a serious defensive operator at 13 and seems to be the defensive lynchpin. I don't believe Joe would change (understandably so) both centres to accomodate a new inside centre.

One thing about picking McCloskey is that Joe will have to let him play his game to be effective. His attacking game is all about getting his hands free in contact and offloading.
If that happens expect to see more strike running from the outside backs as space opens up. If it doesn't expect to see more of the same as Ireland commit 2 or 3 players to secure possession at the breakdown leaving the other 11/12 to attack against 13/14 until we eventually get turned over/knock on/penalised.
Change the mindset.

Joe appears to have knocked the offloading bit out of McCloskey, he was not even attempting it on Friday night

[Raydollard]

Madigan finds it very hard to play the few minutes he gets at outhalf. Jackson has a bigger ass and would better warm the bench then. But God help us if Johnny goes off early.

[Golf Man]

[quote="jezzer"]Might have been the most pedestrian back line we have put out in the 6n since the game went pro, esp after DK went off.[quote]

made me laugh and cry

In other news we have the lowest no of tries, the joint lowest no of offloads (3 with Wales) and the second lowest number of linebreaks (7 just ahead of Wales on 5)

Stander has the ost carries of any player so far (42) just ahead of Vunipola (who has far more metres 113 v 51)
Faletau has the most tackles with 33 , ahead of Heaslip 31 (notable that Stander is 3rd here with 27)

Backs not considered dur to being backs

[FLIP]

In other news we have the lowest no of tries, the joint lowest no of offloads (3 with Wales) and the second lowest number of linebreaks (7 just ahead of Wales on 5)

Stander has the ost carries of any player so far (42) just ahead of Vunipola (who has far more metres 113 v 51)
Faletau has the most tackles with 33 , ahead of Heaslip 31 (notable that Stander is 3rd here with 27)

Backs not considered dur to being backs

Wales, England and France have all played one of Scotland and/or Italy which makes such comparisons absolutely useless until the end of the tournament.