England v Ireland 6Ns 2016

[neiliog93]

Honestly thought if Haskell's hit had been a fraction higher he might have been looking at a red too.

[Made Of Ale]

Honestly thought if Haskell's hit had been a fraction higher he might have been looking at a red too.

I don't think it would ahve made a difference. It was judged high already. Some refs might have sent him off but I think yellow was about right, I actually thought Poite had a good game overall, can't really think of any awful decisions.

[Peg Leg]

Wtf was earls doing on the wrong side of the pitch for the try? Weird decision.

This

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Really strange game. We were on the ropes in that first half and I can't decide if I should be happy with the defence that kept England out or disappointed that we were so passive at times and conceded possession and territory so easily.

I said before the game that I'd like to see us offload everything for the first five or ten mins just to mess with England's defensive plans and clearly there was a plan in place to do something similar to that but it was all a bit hectic and I'm struggling to see how we could move the ball wide so often and yet we didn't really get any of the back three on the ball, and I don't just mean in space, I mean actual touches of the ball. There were some lovely moves that led to space opening up but we weren't accurate enough in our execution. A lot of it seemed to be just individual stuff though, so the forwards would take it up and it would just be a case of flinging it wide and hoping the centres found a gap. We probably needed more footballers in the team to do that. One exception was when we were called back for Henshaw obstructing but I thought that was fine. That whole ploy definitely left more gaps in midfield than England usually leave though, that's something to work with going forward.

The guy who I think might be the difference there is actually Ringrose. I've seen Henshaw be brilliant at 13 for Connacht so I'm by no means writing him off there and thought he did well today, but I do think Ringrose knits the outside backs together really nicely and we lacked that a bit today. I'd like to have seen Henshaw more involved like he has been at 12. We probably needed to mix up the centres more in the first half and that seemed to happen a bit in the second with McCloskey playing a bit wider. Joe criticised McCloskey and taking him off was a bad sign, but I thought he went pretty well. My point is just that I think Ringrose will add a lot to that backline (whenever that may be) and that himself and Henshaw should work really well as a pair. Kearney grew into the game but himself and Trimble had some poor moments and aren't much of a threat really, think we need big changes in the back three.

Thought VDF was pretty good and Dillane made a huge impact. I like Dillane but really didnt realise he was that powerful. Don't see why we took Stander off instead of Heaslip though. Think Ruddock, VDF, and Stander would have been a great backrow to attack England with when we needed to throw the kitchen sink at them.

Poite made some poor decisions and England should have had at least one more card and we might even have had a penalty try, but the reality is that they did still get two yellows and we had chances but blew them. If you're relying on a team going down to 13 men, as should have happened after Brown's reckless use of the boot, to claw your way back into a game then you simply don't deserve to win.

Billy Vunipola really was outstanding. Itoje excellent too but Vunipola was on another level to everyone else on the pitch, just unstoppable at times. England are far less predictable now, lots of options for the ball carrier and a great mix of pace and power. Still lots to improve on as well, they could win a slam this year and still be way off their potential.

As much as there are issues with our recent performances, I do feel a bit similar to how I did a few months ago about Leinster. We're just a few tweaks and great try away from clicking. Henshaw dropping the ball over the line and the move that was called back in the first half both reminded me of that disallowed try for Sexton earlier in the season. The difference is that there's more pressure on results for Ireland and less games to get things right. Not sure I can see that happening before we go to South Africa but am confident we'll be in a good place come November and beyond.

[Peg Leg]

Really strange game. We were on the ropes in that first half and I can't decide if I should be happy with the defence that kept England out or disappointed that we were so passive at times and conceded possession and territory so easily.

I said before the game that I'd like to see us offload everything for the first five or ten mins just to mess with England's defensive plans and clearly there was a plan in place to do something similar to that but it was all a bit hectic and I'm struggling to see how we could move the ball wide so often and yet we didn't really get any of the back three on the ball, and I don't just mean in space, I mean actual touches of the ball. There were some lovely moves that led to space opening up but we weren't accurate enough in our execution. A lot of it seemed to be just individual stuff though, so the forwards would take it up and it would just be a case of flinging it wide and hoping the centres found a gap. We probably needed more footballers in the team to do that. One exception was when we were called back for Henshaw obstructing but I thought that was fine. That whole ploy definitely left more gaps in midfield than England usually leave though, that's something to work with going forward.

The guy who I think might be the difference there is actually Ringrose. I've seen Henshaw be brilliant at 13 for Connacht so I'm by no means writing him off there and thought he did well today, but I do think Ringrose knits the outside backs together really nicely and we lacked that a bit today. I'd like to have seen Henshaw more involved like he has been at 12. We probably needed to mix up the centres more in the first half and that seemed to happen a bit in the second with McCloskey playing a bit wider. Joe criticised McCloskey and taking him off was a bad sign, but I thought he went pretty well. My point is just that I think Ringrose will add a lot to that backline (whenever that may be) and that himself and Henshaw should work really well as a pair. Kearney grew into the game but himself and Trimble had some poor moments and aren't much of a threat really, think we need big changes in the back three.

Thought VDF was pretty good and Dillane made a huge impact. I like Dillane but really didnt realise he was that powerful. Don't see why we took Stander off instead of Heaslip though. Think Ruddock, VDF, and Stander would have been a great backrow to attack England with when we needed to throw the kitchen sink at them.

Poite made some poor decisions and England should have had at least one more card and we might even have had a penalty try, but the reality is that they did still get two yellows and we had chances but blew them. If you're relying on a team going down to 13 men, as should have happened after Brown's reckless use of the boot, to claw your way back into a game then you simply don't deserve to win.

Billy Vunipola really was outstanding. Itoje excellent too but Vunipola was on another level to everyone else on the pitch, just unstoppable at times. England are far less predictable now, lots of options for the ball carrier and a great mix of pace and power. Still lots to improve on as well, they could win a slam this year and still be way off their potential.

As much as there are issues with our recent performances, I do feel a bit similar to how I did a few months ago about Leinster. We're just a few tweaks and great try away from clicking. Henshaw dropping the ball over the line and the move that was called back in the first half both reminded me of that disallowed try for Sexton earlier in the season. The difference is that there's more pressure on results for Ireland and less games to get things right. Not sure I can see that happening before we go to South Africa but am confident we'll be in a good place come November and beyond.

Great post.

[Gearzbox2]

There are a few positives to take from that game
And a LOT of negatives....

Jack Mc and Rossy were very good, shocked that Rossy kept trucking until 55 and had marler in all sorts of problems
Rory Best was anomonous, poor throwing and had 2 carries in 70 minutes, nuff said
Seconds Rows were Meh, not much dog compared to opposition
Stander very good, Josh grew into the game and was good, Jamie living off his name at this stage....
Halfbacks very good
McCloskey mixed the bad with the good
Probably the same with Henshaw, had his good moments
Trimble wasn't to be seen
Earls had a few nice touches but not enough at this level
Rob was better than some of the cr@p he's produced lately

Subs....
Cian, oh god......less said the better
Straussy, no impact, shouldn't be there...cronin must have pissed in joes cornflakes
White, not international level
Dillane was exceptional, best impact debut I've seen in awhile
Rudds, but mixed but tried hard
Redser, upped the tempo well
Mads and Zebo weren't given much

[Oldschool]

There are a few positives to take from that game
And a LOT of negatives....

Jack Mc and Rossy were very good, shocked that Rossy kept trucking until 55 and had marler in all sorts of problems
Rory Best was anomonous, poor throwing and had 2 carries in 70 minutes, nuff said
Seconds Rows were Meh, not much dog compared to opposition
Stander very good, Josh grew into the game and was good, Jamie living off his name at this stage....
Halfbacks very good
McCloskey mixed the bad with the good
Probably the same with Henshaw, had his good moments
Trimble wasn't to be seen
Earls had a few nice touches but not enough at this level
Rob was better than some of the cr@p he's produced lately

Subs....
Cian, oh god......less said the better
Straussy, no impact, shouldn't be there...cronin must have pissed in joes cornflakes
White, not international level
Dillane was exceptional, best impact debut I've seen in awhile
Rudds, but mixed but tried hard
Redser, upped the tempo well
Mads and Zebo weren't given much

Message for the Stander to 8 and Jamie to Connacht brigade. Stander is in the team to carry. Made his first carry just on HT.
Joe changed things a bit for the second half.
Result Stander carried more and Heaslip was moved wide to help give our back play some go forward momentum and Ireland became much more dangerous.

[Leoslovechild]

And Stander is still a penalty machine

[All Blacks nil]

Better team won
Billy V gave an exhibition of power running after initially being used as a decoy and distributing ball from first/second receiver. That tactic alone kept the Irish guessing and was a clever ploy by Jones. Billy V also benefitted from the tactic as he subsequently often found himself in 1 v 1 situations which is more or less a mismatch for Billy V.

Farrell, in the style of an old-fashioned New Zealand 2nd five eight, had a big influence on the game and his distribution talents give England wonderful variety to their game. Jones has made a great start with this team and unfortunately things are looking good for them.

As Joe mentioned our failure to nail our "platforms" (watch that word enter our rugby vocabulary) was costly with failed lineouts in the "red zone" ( previously known as the 22, and indeed the 25) costing us dearly.

Scrum was on top until replacements came on which only emphasises how far McGrath and Ross are ahead of Healy and White et al. McGrath looks the real article at the this stage but unfortunately Healy is nowhere near his optimum level. McGrath and Healy in their respective pomp would be some duo of loose heads.
The English backrow were excellent and were instrumental in supplying constant quick ball. This was helped by some pretty passive defence and the barnstorming Billy V which always had The English ruckers on the front foot.

Ireland did indeed open up a bit and had some joy as they went wide. It was heartening to see Ireland ditch the almost exclusive use of the one out runner and the fact they mixed it up kept the English defence on their toes.

Debutants all acquitted themselves with Dillane having a spectacular impact off the bench. JDF probably scored but once it could not be confirmed by TMO it was rightly disallowed. Incidentally JDF and McCloskey had 3 of the 4 Irish offloads between them. Joe will sort that out although he might not be able to knock the offloading habit out of our other offloader on the day.

Dillane at 22 could be anything and no matter who is available should be at the very least in the MD23 for the foreseeable future. Was POC the last 22 year old second row to be capped by Ireland in a Tier one/ Six Nations match?

After three games we have scored 35 points with our place kicker having a 100% record. Two tries to show, both excellent sniping efforts by Murray.
We have to keep the scoreboard ticking over. 16 points, 9 points and 10 points will not win too many games at any level. Take your points.

[jezzer]

Rory Best was anomonous, poor throwing and had 2 carries in 70 minutes, nuff said

Dunno where to start with that observation. Best was outstanding in defence and in the set piece.

[neiliog93]

Rory Best was anomonous, poor throwing and had 2 carries in 70 minutes, nuff said

Dunno where to start with that observation. Best was outstanding in defence and in the set piece.

It's not entirely his fault but he must take some of the flack for the line-out failures. One or two of his throws were slightly delayed, which allowed England to get a jumper up and win the ball/at least disrupt out possession. It wasn't the case of an early jump as the hooker takes his cue for the throw from the jump, not the other way around. Also a couple were slightly under-thrown. Other than that though, he was busy in defence and played a big role in getting us parity in the scrum.

[Twist]

Obviously I'm getting way ahead of myself here but Dillane & Henderson for 2019 is already looking exciting

[LeRouxIsPHat]

And Stander is still a penalty machine

I can only remember one off the top of my head and thought he did what he had to do. It was when someone was caught behind the gainline and he got back and came in from the side. He did his absolute best to make it at least look reasonably legal but couldn't manage it. Don't think he had a choice though, we were screwed if England had got that ball back quickly.

[simonokeeffe]

@LRIP us standing off Vunipola helped him no end

[erskinechilders]

Dillane at 22 could be anything and no matter who is available should be at the very least in the MD23 for the foreseeable future. Was POC the last 22 year old second row to be capped by Ireland in a Tier one/ Six Nations match?

Iain Henderson!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

@LRIP us standing off Vunipola helped him no end

Thought there were times when that happened alright but more as a result of us already being on the back foot. Even when we were well set and got up in his face he managed to overpower us though. I think he's very close to being the best number 8 in the world right now although there are a lot of good candidates.

[neiliog93]

Dillane at 22 could be anything and no matter who is available should be at the very least in the MD23 for the foreseeable future. Was POC the last 22 year old second row to be capped by Ireland in a Tier one/ Six Nations match?

Iain Henderson!

What makes it scary is that as an athlete POC was nowhere near either of them.

[FLIP]

@LRIP us standing off Vunipola helped him no end

Thought there were times when that happened alright but more as a result of us already being on the back foot. Even when we were well set and got up in his face he managed to overpower us though. I think he's very close to being the best number 8 in the world right now although there are a lot of good candidates.

I wouldn't go that far. He's a one trick pony. He's very good at that mind, but when Haskell went off the lack of work outside of carrying showed. He played well and got a deserved man of the match but he's not a well rounded player.

[All Blacks nil]

Dillane at 22 could be anything and no matter who is available should be at the very least in the MD23 for the foreseeable future. Was POC the last 22 year old second row to be capped by Ireland in a Tier one/ Six Nations match?

Iain Henderson!

Of course.
Toner, Henderson and Dillane look a tasty trio for MD23 of the future.

[jezzer]

The guy who I think might be the difference there is actually Ringrose. I've seen Henshaw be brilliant at 13 for Connacht so I'm by no means writing him off there and thought he did well today, but I do think Ringrose knits the outside backs together really nicely and we lacked that a bit today. I'd like to have seen Henshaw more involved like he has been at 12. We probably needed to mix up the centres more in the first half and that seemed to happen a bit in the second with McCloskey playing a bit wider. Joe criticised McCloskey and taking him off was a bad sign, but I thought he went pretty well. My point is just that I think Ringrose will add a lot to that backline (whenever that may be) and that himself and Henshaw should work really well as a pair.

I think you have a big point here LRIP.

Out cohesion was a bit better on Sat but a lot of the time it feels like the backline is just three separate units, halfbacks, centres and back three. All doing the jobs they're supposed to do but not working together in attack much at all.

There's a lot of talent in a Henshaw Payne or McCloskey Henshaw midfield but they're narrow, lack distribution and a bit of guile. Ringrose has the ability to get the units in the backline working together, in the way he gets around the corner and brings the back three into it.

I worry that we put too many backs in the breakdowns too. We're still going to ground too much and when its multiphase play we inevitably run out of backs to penetrate while they are strewn over the pitch from hitting rucks.

All of that said, we lost this game up front, with poor kicks and with our error count. Back 5 of the pack couldn't hang with England.