2016 Summer Tour to South Africa.

[Fan with smartphone]

In what is a major shock to precisely nobody except perhaps Glen Jackson, Willie Le Roux has been cited.

Hope they don't invite Jackson to the hearing and ask him to just sit and listen at the back, god knows where he'll end up.

Lol

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Jackson was unbelievable. As others have mentioned, that last penalty was a complete joke. De Klerk gives away one of the most blatant pens you'll ever see yet somehow he gives it to them. There were loads of penalties that just made no sense to give against us. South Africa were constantly failing to roll away and lived offside, yet he didn't give a yellow (or even a warning?) for them.

We made a lot shitty little mistakes, really frustrating. Especially because that midfield and Trimble should all be well used to each other. Awful pity that we had to shuffle the backs around a bit, particularly in light of the changes we'd already had to make. Thought TOH started well and Earls looked decent too, he was pretty much anonymous at fullback though. Healy really struggled IMO, didn't look comfortable at all and there were a few times where he clearly didn't even know where to stand after a few phases. Thought our pack went really well for the most part. Obviously the scrum struggled but I thought that was down to Jackson's incompetence as much as anything else.

Disagree with the complaints about the subs. At around the hour mark I was thinking the same thing about needing some of the subs on (Dillane in partcular) but the guys who would potentially have been replaced were all playing really well and more importantly, we had totally lost our shape. I thought there was a real danger of that getting even worse if we made subs. And to my mind the fact that we rallied first before making the subs and then finished strongly validated that.

Gutting not to win, I did feel it was gone once we blew it last week though. Hopefully the win away and the fact that we were so competitive in the other tests will stand to everyone going forward. There were certainly lots of positives and I think we're heading in the right direction. Hopefully this tour was a stepping stone to a win against NZ in the autumn, I feel like it might be.

Just while I have them fresh in my head, the positives for me would be:

Jack McGrath: he's world class and kept it up for 3 tests at the end of a very long season, really impressive.
Furlong: looked really comfortable at this level and now has a start in an important game under his belt. Ross did better than a man of his years should really be able to manage.
Henderson: Bordering world class now. He might have been offside when he robbed De Klerk but that was a brilliant piece of play and he waited as long as he possibly could to do it. His close in carries and general defence are invaluable.
Toner: Put in 3 huge performances against a team who should really destroy him given the physical differences.
Jordi: Not saying he's my first choice 7 or anything but he proved me very wrong with how well he played in his two tests. Delighted for him and hope he can keep up this form next season.
Jackson: Not just good back up but an option to start IMO. Made some mistakes but in general he was brilliant and looked very comfortable running the show.
Olding/Marshall: a mixed bag for both but overwhelmingly positive for me. Marhsall looked like a real leader out there in a way that I never imagined he would two or three years ago.
Payne at fullback: simply has to start there from now on unless we're desperate for a 13. Even if Rob recaptures his best form, I think Payne's attacking game suits the attack that we need to take on the big boys.
Andy Farrell: improved our linespeed and added some nice little touches. Defence wasn't perfect but thought most of the mistakes were just poor individual mistakes and mostly by back up players.

[Fan with smartphone]

I'd argue Roux is also a positive. I know people may dispute, but he is something we didn't really have and gives an option of playing that massive pack and attacking with the scrum. Today we had to give everything to get parity.

I thought we would do well to be competitive on this tour, but I reland have shown they are every bit as good as South Africa. With a fairer wind we would have won this series, we maybe should have won it anyway and we are well on the way to being just a better team than South Africa. It's annoying that I'm saying would, should, could instead of did. We do have to start winning stuff, but as an advocate of the rwc cycle planning I'm well pleased. The kiwis are the next big target in the meantime.

[Raydollard]

I thought both Jacksons were very poor. One of them could have been subbed.

[MrSensible]

Joe's worst game in charge of Ireland. From 55 minutes on, the team was wrecked but he left players with real impact on the bench until 10 minutes from time when we were two scores down. He let his team down today cause as bad as we were,they were shite too and the game was there to be won.

+1

[Ruckedtobits]

Jackson was unbelievable. As others have mentioned, that last penalty was a complete joke. De Klerk gives away one of the most blatant pens you'll ever see yet somehow he gives it to them. There were loads of penalties that just made no sense to give against us. South Africa were constantly failing to roll away and lived offside, yet he didn't give a yellow (or even a warning?) for them.

We made a lot shitty little mistakes, really frustrating. Especially because that midfield and Trimble should all be well used to each other. Awful pity that we had to shuffle the backs around a bit, particularly in light of the changes we'd already had to make. Thought TOH started well and Earls looked decent too, he was pretty much anonymous at fullback though. Healy really struggled IMO, didn't look comfortable at all and there were a few times where he clearly didn't even know where to stand after a few phases. Thought our pack went really well for the most part. Obviously the scrum struggled but I thought that was down to Jackson's incompetence as much as anything else.

Disagree with the complaints about the subs. At around the hour mark I was thinking the same thing about needing some of the subs on (Dillane in partcular) but the guys who would potentially have been replaced were all playing really well and more importantly, we had totally lost our shape. I thought there was a real danger of that getting even worse if we made subs. And to my mind the fact that we rallied first before making the subs and then finished strongly validated that.

Gutting not to win, I did feel it was gone once we blew it last week though. Hopefully the win away and the fact that we were so competitive in the other tests will stand to everyone going forward. There were certainly lots of positives and I think we're heading in the right direction. Hopefully this tour was a stepping stone to a win against NZ in the autumn, I feel like it might be.

Just while I have them fresh in my head, the positives for me would be:

Jack McGrath: he's world class and kept it up for 3 tests at the end of a very long season, really impressive.
Furlong: looked really comfortable at this level and now has a start in an important game under his belt. Ross did better than a man of his years should really be able to manage.
Henderson: Bordering world class now. He might have been offside when he robbed De Klerk but that was a brilliant piece of play and he waited as long as he possibly could to do it. His close in carries and general defence are invaluable.
Toner: Put in 3 huge performances against a team who should really destroy him given the physical differences.
Jordi: Not saying he's my first choice 7 or anything but he proved me very wrong with how well he played in his two tests. Delighted for him and hope he can keep up this form next season.
Jackson: Not just good back up but an option to start IMO. Made some mistakes but in general he was brilliant and looked very comfortable running the show.
Olding/Marshall: a mixed bag for both but overwhelmingly positive for me. Marhsall looked like a real leader out there in a way that I never imagined he would two or three years ago.
Payne at fullback: simply has to start there from now on unless we're desperate for a 13. Even if Rob recaptures his best form, I think Payne's attacking game suits the attack that we need to take on the big boys.
Andy Farrell: improved our linespeed and added some nice little touches. Defence wasn't perfect but thought most of the mistakes were just poor individual mistakes and mostly by back up players.

+1 x Ω

Excellent piece with which I totally agree. But Roux must also be included as one for the future. Hopefully Easterbunny has really given Quinn a bollocking about his work-rate in getting into rucks and generally using his enormous strength throughout a game, rather than only when there's a soft target. He must not graduate to the CJ van de Lindt role as a "ruck inspector". There will be others who can do that job better and who cannot do the job he can in shifting pundage.

Pat Lam and Jimmy Duffy have the greatest chance of bringing about this development and they can also help Connacht replace Muldowney with a younger, and possibly stronger, model.

Roux has the potential to make Tadgh Furlong a world class THP, as was evident in 50 minutes in Jo'berg. That would be an extraordinary development for Irish rugby with the presence of McGrath, and hopefully Healy, on the other side. However, we must also realise that we need to develop a replacement for Rory Best within about 2 seasons, and the candidates do not include Cronin, Strauss, Sherry or Herring. He might come from Connacht, even if originating from NZ.

But my previously expressed opinion is that we need to find a physically big man to become expert for the approx. 10 scrums and line-out throws which have become so specialist, but which have also increased in importance as try-scoring opportunities.

From past experience, this is possible and maybe Jonathon Treacy may have already taken the necessary step. But, my strong preference is Peader Timmons and I truly believe, he would be good enough within 2 years to be an Irish Squad hooker, but not an international flanker or No 8, certainly within the same timeframe.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Yeah I'd agree with both of you about Roux being a positive, I just forgot about him tbh. Although I would hope that someone like James Ryan overtakes him quickly and that he's just good back up more than anything else because I don't think his ceiling is that high.

RTB, given that we've both independently thought of Timmons moving to hooker I do wonder if it's been thought of by any coaches? To me it's just a blindingly obvious move to make, especially when you think of the competition in the backrow being so intense that someone like Greg Jones missed out on the academy. Now maybe it would be obvious from the first time he threw a ball into a lineout that he'd never make it as a hooker but it's definitely worth a try and the skills he's shown in the A games make me think he'd take to it like a duck to water.

[simonokeeffe]

If a centre like TomYoungs can do it why not?

[Ruckedtobits]

From stories of the past, its about a serious figure sitting down with Timmons and charting the possible path for him with the timescale. He needs to have a "champion" who will invest his time and reputation in the project and has sufficient connections to smooth his path and support him during the transition period.

Two names spring to mind, both former international hookers. For one, it could be part of the day job and the time line is almost perfect. That person is one David Nucifora.

The other is Keith Wood, who has all the credentials to present the idea, convince the player and ensure that the media and powers that be support Timmons throughout the process and give him the game time at the right levels during the process.

[simonokeeffe]

Nucifora I would agree, Wood I wood disagree as hes wanted everyone from Leamy to SOB to convert to hooker

[Peg Leg]

Nucifora I would agree, Wood I wood disagree as hes wanted everyone from Leamy to SOB to convert to hooker

Wood wasn't the only one who wanted SOB at hooker. In fact I think the idea was broached with him in the A team

[simonokeeffe]

Nucifora I would agree, Wood I wood disagree as hes wanted everyone from Leamy to SOB to convert to hooker

Wood wasn't the only one who wanted SOB at hooker. In fact I think the idea was broached with him in the A team

But Leamy though, he was a centre deep down

There was this phase/fad though of every blockbuster ball carrier should be a hooker

[Dave Cahill]

But Leamy though, he was a centre deep down

There was this phase/fad though of every blockbuster ball carrier should be a hooker

George Hooks legacy to Irish rugby is ignorance and confusion.

Brent Popes is that every back row player should be converted to hooker.

[jezzer]

Brilliant summary LRIP.

Like everyone else I thought Glen Jackson ruined a good test. I don't normally bash refs much - it's a bloody hard and thankless job - but he was shocking. You can tell he has very little respect from players too.

This had been an amazing tour for a few reasons. Getting the away win in SA monkey off our backs, giving Jackson a run at 10 and generally really developing squad options in every position, bedding in the Farrell defence, adding the strip of the ball to our arsenal of innovative defensive tactics (Kiss would be proud), and fibally starting to put together an offensive plan that doesn't involve getting rid of it asap.

Very few negatives. Our tendency to go onto our shells with a lead is a problem and Murray is chief culprit.

Our attacking lines in the first two tests were a big improvement, but it fell apart a bit in the last one, too deep too static and too lateral. Jackson and Olding were crabbing and the outside backs were either getting ball and man or crappy ball way behind the line.

Hopefully they're just wrinkles to iron out but Wee Paddy could have done with a better display to take into November so as to unseat the struggling SexBomb (more SexCapgun lately).

sh!t week for Irish sport. Fed up of looking for positives in defeat. We should have won that series at a canter.

[Donny B.]

But Leamy though, he was a centre deep down

There was this phase/fad though of every blockbuster ball carrier should be a hooker

George Hooks legacy to Irish rugby is ignorance and confusion.

Brent Popes is that every back row player should be converted to hooker.

He's less a Pope than a pimp such is his zealotry for turning people into hookers!!!

Booooooooooooooooooooom muthafuckas!!!!!!

[simonokeeffe]

@Jezzer we can now manage Sexton a lot better too

Tighthead scrummaging a concern for 6n but we should really be (viably) going for a win over NZ and 6n is between us and England

list of players to come back in is great and will hopefully help with use of bench

[Oldschool]

But Leamy though, he was a centre deep down

There was this phase/fad though of every blockbuster ball carrier should be a hooker

George Hooks legacy to Irish rugby is ignorance and confusion.

Brent Popes is that every back row player should be converted to hooker.

Pope, at least, could be right some of the time.

[jezzer]

@Jezzer we can now manage Sexton a lot better too

Tighthead scrummaging a concern for 6n but we should really be (viably) going for a win over NZ and 6n is between us and England

list of players to come back in is great and will hopefully help with use of bench

Dunno about you but I thought our scrum trouble at the w/e seemed to come from their back 5 pushing through on a secondary shove. Not sure the front row were the main culprits. Just thought we got outmuscled. I don't think it caused the loss though. Maybe if we'd made those 2 simple scoring chances stick (Marshall pass, Jackson pass) it'd have been irrelevant.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I found it really annoying whenever Jackson let them away with stuff at scrumtime because their tighthead was fairly useless really. There are times when poor scrummagers can be smart/push their luck (Marler against us and Beast against the Lions) but on Saturday it was just pure luck that Jackson hadn't a notion what was going on.

[simonokeeffe]

@Jezzer we can now manage Sexton a lot better too

Tighthead scrummaging a concern for 6n but we should really be (viably) going for a win over NZ and 6n is between us and England

list of players to come back in is great and will hopefully help with use of bench

Dunno about you but I thought our scrum trouble at the w/e seemed to come from their back 5 pushing through on a secondary shove. Not sure the front row were the main culprits. Just thought we got outmuscled. I don't think it caused the loss though. Maybe if we'd made those 2 simple scoring chances stick (Marshall pass, Jackson pass) it'd have been irrelevant.

not blaming it all at TH prop, I mean that side in general, Toner isnt an amazing scrummager

In general I find the scrummaging role of the wing forwards is underplayed and quite often when you see a scrum in trouble the flankers are jumping forward and looking up. Ruddock is a good (and sneaky) scrummager