Italy under Conor O'Shea.

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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby offshorerules » April 20th, 2016, 10:10 am

O'Shea is a very canny operator. If he's going to go anywhere he's had a good look at it and thinks they have the players coming through to make sure they will be successful.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby simonokeeffe » November 19th, 2016, 5:22 pm

Going well so far, doing us a favour in the process
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby domhnallj » November 19th, 2016, 7:32 pm

Excellent win for the Italians. Well done.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby Ibane » November 20th, 2016, 11:21 am

It's a shame to see South African rugby is in such a pitiful state.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby simonokeeffe » November 20th, 2016, 12:32 pm

Wales up first in 6n in Rome, a possibly rabbley France in Rome too, could be some more upsets unless SA were really just THAT bad
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby sunshiner1 » November 20th, 2016, 12:43 pm

Big jump for Italy in the rankings.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby Xanthippe » November 20th, 2016, 1:20 pm

sunshiner1 wrote:Big jump for Italy in the rankings.

Unfortunately for Italy, because Georgia had a win too, their huge 1.93 ranking point increase doesn't move them even one place in the table - the biggest effect of their win was to bump us up to 4th.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby jezzer » November 20th, 2016, 4:40 pm

Italy were a rabble against NZ. Delighted to see they pulled it together. Who was the 10? Canna against NZ was awful - as in "I Canna play rugby"...
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby Xanthippe » November 20th, 2016, 9:13 pm

jezzer wrote:Italy were a rabble against NZ. Delighted to see they pulled it together. Who was the 10? Canna against NZ was awful - as in "I Canna play rugby"...


Was it not Canna again?
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby neiliog93 » November 21st, 2016, 12:12 am

Fair play Italy. Can see them upsetting a Gatty-free Wales in the first round of fixtures in Rome, when Italy are usually at their strongest. Will probably lose all their other games though.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby suisse » November 21st, 2016, 3:33 pm

Ibane wrote:It's a shame to see South African rugby is in such a pitiful state.


Agreed. Rugby really can't afford to lose SA
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby Oldschool » November 21st, 2016, 3:54 pm

suisse wrote:
Ibane wrote:It's a shame to see South African rugby is in such a pitiful state.


Agreed. Rugby really can't afford to lose SA

SA have two problems, at least.
They just don't seemed to have engaged with the need to adapt to a new style of play.
Most teams now know that if they match them physically they've a really good chance of beating them because they are so one dimensional.
The other problem they have is the whole equality issue and that is going to take time and maybe a bit of re-organisation at the lower levels of rugby in SA.
They also really need to look at their coaching situation. Ireland had the same problem until very recently - A very shallow pool from which to select.
They might be best advised to go externally for a few years as a stated policy.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby simonokeeffe » November 21st, 2016, 6:56 pm

Oldschool wrote:
suisse wrote:
Ibane wrote:It's a shame to see South African rugby is in such a pitiful state.


Agreed. Rugby really can't afford to lose SA

SA have two problems, at least.
They just don't seemed to have engaged with the need to adapt to a new style of play.
Most teams now know that if they match them physically they've a really good chance of beating them because they are so one dimensional.
The other problem they have is the whole equality issue and that is going to take time and maybe a bit of re-organisation at the lower levels of rugby in SA.
They also really need to look at their coaching situation. Ireland had the same problem until very recently - A very shallow pool from which to select.
They might be best advised to go externally for a few years as a stated policy.


leaving player transformation aside, as Pieterson, de Allende, Jantjes, Mapoe, Kolisi can hold their own, their biggest problem has been their union/political interference and appearances, mainly the state of coaching appointments

DeVillers was nuts but had some great players holding it together, Meyer got the job when the game had well passed him, Coetzee is well out of his depth but sacking him very early for a Dutchman will cause acrimony and whoever comes in will have to do well. And Strauss retiring leaves a gargantuan hole in leadership
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby dropkick » November 22nd, 2016, 3:48 pm

First thing O'Shea said when he got the Italian job was the Italian players were not fit enough. A bit like Ireland around 2000. Remember the 60 min mark when the floodgates would open?! Well COS has already made that change and the Italians finished the match strongly despite having to defend for most of the match. You'd have to question the previous coaches of Italy though. Fitness is such a basic thing to get right.


Anyway, hopefully this can spark something off in Italian rugby. Zebre and Treviso are really dragging the Pro12 - as a product - down but theres great potential in Italy to really boost the Pro12, if the Italians can become competitive.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby dropkick » November 27th, 2016, 3:25 pm

Win against SA one week and lose to Tonga the next. :shock:
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2016, 3:51 pm

dropkick wrote:Win against SA one week and lose to Tonga the next. :shock:

That's an example of the fitness issue.
Last week must have takewa lot out of Italy and with a shallow pool that left them exposed.
The reason OZ nearly beat us yesterday had a lot to do with the physical toll of last week's game.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 27th, 2016, 4:14 pm

Oldschool wrote:
dropkick wrote:Win against SA one week and lose to Tonga the next. :shock:

That's an example of the fitness issue.
Last week must have takewa lot out of Italy and with a shallow pool that left them exposed.
The reason OZ nearly beat us yesterday had a lot to do with the physical toll of last week's game.


IMO, The reasons that Oz might have beaten us yesterday are:

1. Our inability to convert opportunities we created in first 30 minutes into more points.
2. Our inability to capitalise on overlaps we created on the (right) wing due to inadequate pace.
3. The sublime quality of Australian mid-field handling and support lines of running against an inexperienced mid-field of Jackson, Ringrose and Earls.
4. The (almost) unforgivable error by Jackson in choosing the wrong option 40 secs short of half-time and then failing to execute - albeit off his weaker foot. He and Payne were facing three Oz forwards with a 10 metre blind side and option 1 was to pass to Payne and support him inside. Option 2 was a short grubber kick behind the 3 forwards for Payne to run on to. Option 3, his choice, was to try to kick deep to the Australian half, but he kicked out on the full and conceded possession and position to our opponents who had barely created a sniff of opportunity in 40 mins.

The difference between going in 17-0 and going in 17-7 was enormous and the consequences of inspiring the Australians at half-time became immediately apparent on the restart.

Ireland have become almost expert at depriving opponents of opportunities they don't create themselves (witness our penalty count in games against the Big Three). Jackson's mistake will have been highlighted to him and is what he must avoid in the future, if Ireland and Ulster are to best benefit from his undoubted skills.
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Re: Italy under Conor O'Shea.

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2016, 6:08 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
dropkick wrote:Win against SA one week and lose to Tonga the next. :shock:

That's an example of the fitness issue.
Last week must have takewa lot out of Italy and with a shallow pool that left them exposed.
The reason OZ nearly beat us yesterday had a lot to do with the physical toll of last week's game.


IMO, The reasons that Oz might have beaten us yesterday are:

1. Our inability to convert opportunities we created in first 30 minutes into more points.
2. Our inability to capitalise on overlaps we created on the (right) wing due to inadequate pace.
3. The sublime quality of Australian mid-field handling and support lines of running against an inexperienced mid-field of Jackson, Ringrose and Earls.
4. The (almost) unforgivable error by Jackson in choosing the wrong option 40 secs short of half-time and then failing to execute - albeit off his weaker foot. He and Payne were facing three Oz forwards with a 10 metre blind side and option 1 was to pass to Payne and support him inside. Option 2 was a short grubber kick behind the 3 forwards for Payne to run on to. Option 3, his choice, was to try to kick deep to the Australian half, but he kicked out on the full and conceded possession and position to our opponents who had barely created a sniff of opportunity in 40 mins.

The difference between going in 17-0 and going in 17-7 was enormous and the consequences of inspiring the Australians at half-time became immediately apparent on the restart.

Ireland have become almost expert at depriving opponents of opportunities they don't create themselves (witness our penalty count in games against the Big Three). Jackson's mistake will have been highlighted to him and is what he must avoid in the future, if Ireland and Ulster are to best benefit from his undoubted skills.


I actually believe that, if we hadn't had such a tough game last weekend, we would have stuffed OZ because I don't think OZ are that good.
On your point 1, the OZ defence deserves some credit, they were very hard to break down. We do have to learn how to clinch those five metre out opportunities.
2 I suggested a pacey winger would be useful in another post but it's stating the obvious.
Your point 4 had far more to do with the way the game went than point 3.
Point 3 was as a direct consequence of last week.
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