CJ Stander silences the doubters

[Oldschoolsocks]

It's great isn't it?

And it's great also that Heaslip was top carrier and tackler for the championship!

Some posters, including a lot of senior ones, have spent years trying to find anything to knock him, and depsite Stander's excellent showing throughout the tournament, he's once again proven his class.

Great stuff all round eh m1?

Just catching up - Heaslip had his best 6 Nations in some time - competition helps in this regard - but he was some way off being the top carrier - He had 62 carries - Stander had 87 - Vunipola had 93 and I assume is the highest

His tackle stats are great - 61 made v 1 missed (Stander was 54/3 and Vuniploa was 46/6 for comparison)

Some comments here about Heaslip being better because he has a 6 acting as a 6 etc - that's rubbish - Stander is almost exclusively an 8 - the fact of Stander being there probably helped more - he now has live competition for his place - I'd love to see Stander getting a start at 8 in one of the SA tests - I think this would benefit him obviously but you would also get the best out of Heaslip if you did this

Henry is actually the big loser in all of this I think

TOD is TOD - he will not let us down and a great squad player but he is never going to be top end
VdeF did pretty well although I don't really see the reason for his acceleration into the team at this point in time (for example Dillane makes sense because we have a definite weakness at lock, which we don't have in the backrow, McCloskey makes sense (and I 'd have loved to have seen more) because he has been so good for Ulster and offers something very different)

POM/SOB/Heaslip/Stander would be the ideal backrow at this point in time - backed up by Ruddock, TOD, VdeF,- I'd like to see a bit more movement

Meh... Stander had an outstanding tournament at 6 playing as a 6 -- fact he can also play at 8 is a big bonus. this is not the first run he's had at 6 and he has looked v impressive there, I think POM should be looking to 7 for his future

[simonokeeffe]

be interesting if Axel plays POM at 7 if/when TOD is missing

[Oldschoolsocks]

ah sure you never know what Axel's gonna do next, that's most of the excitement

[simonokeeffe]

ah sure you never know what Axel's gonna do next, that's most of the excitement

trial separation?

[Oldschoolsocks]

ah sure you never know what Axel's gonna do next, that's most of the excitement

trial separation?

I could never leave you SOKKY, sure who'd lay your clothes out for you in the morning

[wixfjord]

Just catching up - Heaslip had his best 6 Nations in some time - competition helps in this regard - but he was some way off being the top carrier - He had 62 carries - Stander had 87 - Vunipola had 93 and I assume is the highest

His tackle stats are great - 61 made v 1 missed (Stander was 54/3 and Vuniploa was 46/6 for comparison)

He was top Irish carrier in terms of yardage. 129m for 62 carries. Stander 119 for 87.

[Not_Today]

Just catching up - Heaslip had his best 6 Nations in some time - competition helps in this regard - but he was some way off being the top carrier - He had 62 carries - Stander had 87 - Vunipola had 93 and I assume is the highest

His tackle stats are great - 61 made v 1 missed (Stander was 54/3 and Vuniploa was 46/6 for comparison)

He was top Irish carrier in terms of yardage. 129m for 62 carries. Stander 119 for 87.

CJs carries were in traffic, first receiver, Heaslip was further out and in some cases running sideways so while carrying he wasn't actually making it past the gainline.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Just catching up - Heaslip had his best 6 Nations in some time - competition helps in this regard - but he was some way off being the top carrier - He had 62 carries - Stander had 87 - Vunipola had 93 and I assume is the highest

His tackle stats are great - 61 made v 1 missed (Stander was 54/3 and Vuniploa was 46/6 for comparison)

He was top Irish carrier in terms of yardage. 129m for 62 carries. Stander 119 for 87.

CJs carries were in traffic, first receiver, Heaslip was further out and in some cases running sideways so while carrying he wasn't actually making it past the gainline.

So every single one of Standers carries was in hard traffic, and every one of Jamie's was in soft traffic, PLUS they counted Jamie's sideways yards?

Is that your argument, really...

[Peg Leg]

Just catching up - Heaslip had his best 6 Nations in some time - competition helps in this regard - but he was some way off being the top carrier - He had 62 carries - Stander had 87 - Vunipola had 93 and I assume is the highest

His tackle stats are great - 61 made v 1 missed (Stander was 54/3 and Vuniploa was 46/6 for comparison)

He was top Irish carrier in terms of yardage. 129m for 62 carries. Stander 119 for 87.

CJs carries were in traffic, first receiver, Heaslip was further out and in some cases running sideways so while carrying he wasn't actually making it past the gainline.

Carries are a measure of meters made behind the gain line only

[Oldschool]

Some posters are getting carried away!

[wixfjord]

Just catching up - Heaslip had his best 6 Nations in some time - competition helps in this regard - but he was some way off being the top carrier - He had 62 carries - Stander had 87 - Vunipola had 93 and I assume is the highest

His tackle stats are great - 61 made v 1 missed (Stander was 54/3 and Vuniploa was 46/6 for comparison)

He was top Irish carrier in terms of yardage. 129m for 62 carries. Stander 119 for 87.

CJs carries were in traffic, first receiver, Heaslip was further out and in some cases running sideways so while carrying he wasn't actually making it past the gainline.

This isn't POM we're talking about here, Heaslip is and has always been the go to guy for Ireland and Leinster to set up quick ball from slow ball. One of the strengths of his game, which makes his yardage even more impressive.

[All Blacks nil]

So every single one of Standers carries was in hard traffic, and every one of Jamie's was in soft traffic, PLUS they counted Jamie's sideways yards?

Is that your argument, really...

To answer your rhetorical questions, yes, every one of Stander's carries were in heavy traffic and no, not all off Jamie's carries were in soft traffic

All of Jamie's metres gained AGAINST ENGLAND, apart from one carry for roughly a metre, were in soft traffic as Schmidt seemed to task him as an auxiliary right wing for that game. A 10-15 metre carry up the righthand touchline was ruined when he kicked the ball over the dead ball line. That carry was noteworthy as it was turnover ball and his kick ahead was the last play of the half. Those 10-15 metres ARE counted.
His finish of Ireland's length of the pitch try AGAINST ITALY was another example of a soft traffic carry and accounted for 10 of the 37 metres he carried in that game.
The 2 metres from 5 carries AGAINST FRANCE were undoubtedly in heavy traffic.

Irelands top carriers in the championship were

Henshaw 290m in 396 mins
Zebo 260m in 256 mins
Trimble 222m in 391mins
......
......
.....
Heaslip 129m in 400 mins
Stander 119m in 369 mins

Then again we are not comparing like with like, are we!!!!!

Jamie had a reasonable tournament, nothing more.
All right v Wales , inconspicuous v France, poor v England, good against Italy and excellent v Scotland.
Both Falateau and Billy V easily won their battles on the day although as I've said elsewhere Heaslip was used as an auxiliary wing v England and was not given the opportunity to impose himself on the game.

[Oldschool]

So every single one of Standers carries was in hard traffic, and every one of Jamie's was in soft traffic, PLUS they counted Jamie's sideways yards?

Is that your argument, really...

To answer your rhetorical questions, yes, every one of Stander's carries were in heavy traffic and no, not all off Jamie's carries were in soft traffic

All of Jamie's metres gained AGAINST ENGLAND, apart from one carry for roughly a metre, were in soft traffic as Schmidt seemed to task him as an auxiliary right wing for that game. A 10-15 metre carry up the righthand touchline was ruined when he kicked the ball over the dead ball line. That carry was noteworthy as it was turnover ball and his kick ahead was the last play of the half. Those 10-15 metres ARE counted.
His finish of Ireland's length of the pitch try AGAINST ITALY was another example of a soft traffic carry and accounted for 10 of the 37 metres he carried in that game.
The 2 metres from 5 carries AGAINST FRANCE were undoubtedly in heavy traffic.

Irelands top carriers in the championship were

Henshaw 290m in 396 mins
Zebo 260m in 256 mins
Trimble 222m in 391mins
......
......
.....
Heaslip 129m in 400 mins
Stander 119m in 369 mins

Then again we are not comparing like with like, are we!!!!!

Jamie had a reasonable tournament, nothing more.
All right v Wales , inconspicuous v France, poor v England, good against Italy and excellent v Scotland.
Both Falateau and Billy V easily won their battles on the day although as I've said elsewhere Heaslip was used as an auxiliary wing v England and was not given the opportunity to impose himself on the game.

h

Would be interesting to see if Stander would be any good as an auxiliary winger given that he won't be needed in the back row when SOB, POM, Henry and possibly Henderson (given how well Toner and Ryan went and with Dillane putting down a strong marker) are fit and available again.
Maybe Stander could cover full back. His carry stats would sky rocket and then Jamie really would be under pressure.

[All Blacks nil]

Jamie had a reasonable tournament, nothing more.
All right v Wales , inconspicuous v France, poor v England, good against Italy and excellent v Scotland.
Both Falateau and Billy V easily won their battles on the day although as I've said elsewhere Heaslip was used as an auxiliary wing v England and was not given the opportunity to impose himself on the game.

With regard to Stander, he did indeed silence the doubters some of whom labelled him a flat track PRO12 bully, playing against Italian, Welsh and Scottish opposition!!! He proved himself more than capable at this level. He is not just a one trick pony though and both Joe and Axel could do worse than remember that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botCDr52vKY
Just like SOB before him surely he would be more effective in softer traffic. Murray's try v Wales, was almost made by Stander's presence alone. Tupuric looks for Stander and Murray sneaked in. I would love to se him receive a little ball further out.

[Oldschool]

Years ago Brent Pope suggested moving Healy to hooker.
I know Munster need him playing in their back row but CJ Stander's physique, power and ball skills would suggest that this is maybe where his future lies.
I think he'd be a smashing (literally as well as metaphorically) hooker.

[Oldschool]

Jamie had a reasonable tournament, nothing more.
All right v Wales , inconspicuous v France, poor v England, good against Italy and excellent v Scotland.
Both Falateau and Billy V easily won their battles on the day although as I've said elsewhere Heaslip was used as an auxiliary wing v England and was not given the opportunity to impose himself on the game.

With regard to Stander, he did indeed silence the doubters some of whom labelled him a flat track PRO12 bully, playing against Italian, Welsh and Scottish opposition!!! He proved himself more than capable at this level. He is not just a one trick pony though and both Joe and Axel could do worse than remember that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botCDr52vKY
Just like SOB before him surely he would be more effective in softer traffic. Murray's try v Wales, was almost made by Stander's presence alone. Tupuric looks for Stander and Murray sneaked in. I would love to se him receive a little ball further out.

Firstly, you're repeating yourself and it's becoming tiresome. We've told you we don't agree with you.
Secondly, nobody to my knowledge has ever said Stander is a bad player.
Most would agree he's a good player however most also think Heaslip is a better player. You disagree, we get it but we just don't agree.
Thirdly so you want Ireland and Munster to play a game that makes Stander look good. I'm sure every player would agree with that sentiment.
Finally, this knocking Heaslip shyte is really starting to become tiresome. Rog never made any apologies for not handing over the jersey to Sexton, so why should Heaslip just stand aside because you guys want your man in there, b*%&!x to that.
Finally, really this time, this Heaslip out thing has been running a long time, long before Stander even signed for Munster never mind becoming Irish qualified.
What did Heaslip do to you guys that has you so embittered against him. We'd all really, really like to know.

[OTT]

CJ has been great, delighted he was able to silence the Munster doubters after not getting picked in his first couple of years at the province, to be fair I think those doubts have long gone as it is clear as day to anyone with sight that he has been carrying the province for the last 12 months. Great to have him available for Ireland he was a real plus of the 6 nations for me.

[Oldschool]

CJ has been great, delighted he was able to silence the Munster doubters after not getting picked in his first couple of years at the province, to be fair I think those doubts have long gone as it is clear as day to anyone with sight that he has been carrying the province for the last 12 months. Great to have him available for Ireland he was a real plus of the 6 nations for me.

And that's exactly the right way to put it without reference to his impact on other players or their impact on him for that matter.

[neiliog93]

Jamie had a reasonable tournament, nothing more.
All right v Wales , inconspicuous v France, poor v England, good against Italy and excellent v Scotland.
Both Falateau and Billy V easily won their battles on the day although as I've said elsewhere Heaslip was used as an auxiliary wing v England and was not given the opportunity to impose himself on the game.

With regard to Stander, he did indeed silence the doubters some of whom labelled him a flat track PRO12 bully, playing against Italian, Welsh and Scottish opposition!!! He proved himself more than capable at this level. He is not just a one trick pony though and both Joe and Axel could do worse than remember that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botCDr52vKY
Just like SOB before him surely he would be more effective in softer traffic. Murray's try v Wales, was almost made by Stander's presence alone. Tupuric looks for Stander and Murray sneaked in. I would love to se him receive a little ball further out.

Firstly, you're repeating yourself and it's becoming tiresome. We've told you we don't agree with you.
Secondly, nobody to my knowledge has ever said Stander is a bad player.
Most would agree he's a good player however most also think Heaslip is a better player. You disagree, we get it but we just don't agree.
Thirdly so you want Ireland and Munster to play a game that makes Stander look good. I'm sure every player would agree with that sentiment.
Finally, this knocking Heaslip shyte is really starting to become tiresome. Rog never made any apologies for not handing over the jersey to Sexton, so why should Heaslip just stand aside because you guys want your man in there, b*%&!x to that.
Finally, really this time, this Heaslip out thing has been running a long time, long before Stander even signed for Munster never mind becoming Irish qualified.
What did Heaslip do to you guys that has you so embittered against him. We'd all really, really like to know.

He plays for Leinster, takes care of his image and has a middle class Dublin accent.

[Golf Man]

This place is really gone to shite

Heaslip was pretty good partiticularly in the last two games
Stander was pretty good throughout - I think his performances have been a bit overegged but given it was his first step up to this level, and he was playing out of position - all good
POM will 100% be back in at 6

SOB will be back at 7

Stander will probably go to the bench if/when POM, SOB, Heaslip are all fit

Stander is likely toi challenge Heaslip in the next two years for his spot - he is substantially younger afterall

Ruddock, TOD, VdeF, possibly Conan & Henry will be the likely backups

Jordi Murphys fall from grace will continue

Henderson will go into second row - where he is needed most and where Schmidt has played him most - id love to see himself and Diollane given a start v SA - wont happen unless there are injurues though