Do Ireland have a problem once Heaslip retires..?

[maps]

Yet again, whilst watching the Scotland game it becomes clear how far far superior Healsip is ahead of anything else we have to offer in the back row.

Stander offers decent go forward ball certainly, but his defence and tackling is obviously at substandard international level.

How exposed will Ireland be once he retires?

[FrankBurke]

Yes.

[Oldschool]

Depends. We have at least two years before it becomes a problem.
Someone could make the break thru in that time.

[simonokeeffe]

No

A. He'll be 35 at next World Cup, no reason the Wolverine Blood and Neanderthal DNA cant get him there
B. Its still a long way off
3. POM 26, JOD 22, Stander 25, Henderson 24, SOB 29, Ruddock 25, Conan 23, Clive Ross 26

[rookie]

It wouldn't matter if he retired today.

[FLIP]

5 posts before the typical Turnip underrating/disregard of Heaslip takes place. Sad. Surprised it didn't happen sooner.

It is no surprise that the resurgence of Heaslip happened when a more balanced back row was apparent. A 6 playing 6, a 7 playing 7, allows an 8 to play 8.

[Oldschool]

It wouldn't matter if he retired today.

It always matters when there's no one else.

[munster#1]

You have brought up standers defence in two threads now, implying on both occasions that you perceive it to be a weakness in his game.

From viewing the six nations (worth noting that he has never played international level prior to this six nations) and reviewing the stats, it is clear that you are well off the mark.

Stander was played out of position at 6 and was consistently one of Ireland's top tacklers, with relatively high numbers for a blindside.
You would of course expect you openside and 8 to have a higher tackle count given the differences in positions.

Stander is one of the top tacklers for Munster in nearly every game he plays, with a very impressive success rate.

There may be reasons that stander is not the answer at 8, but defences is certainly not one of them.

[ChrisUppy]

No idea where this lark about defending/tackling came from. He missed 3 tackles in the entire tournament.

Heaslip is our best 8 by a good margin but that doesn't mean you have to knock Stander. Especially on fictional grounds.

[Fireworks]

Like BOD we cannot replace Heaslip but someone will need to play 8 and they will bring their own set of skills. Right now there are a few who could do a job and maybe even a good job but I do not see anyone who could do what he does game after game. There are so few athletes like him out there.

[Ruckedtobits]

Like BOD we cannot replace Heaslip but someone will need to play 8 and they will bring their own set of skills. Right now there are a few who could do a job and maybe even a good job but I do not see anyone who could do what he does game after game. There are so few athletes like him out there.

+1

This thread could degenerate into Heaslip v Stander which would be stupid.

If we continue to develop real No 7's - like JVDF, TO'D, Heenan etc.- the back-row balance can change significantly. If PO'M develops into a fully-fit Captain, who compels selection because of his physicality and personality, the back-row balence may facilitate selection of SO'B for some games and pure openside for others. Similarly, Stander looks like he has the skill-set to play 6 or 8 and thus afford the opportunity to Coaches to use Jamie more selectively.

The NZ model has seen McCaw as the ever present, but even Reid (e.g. Vito or Kaino) has been rotated in lesser games and different faces used at No 6, including most recently Kaino & Messam and previously Thompson.

[ronk]

Heaslip is a super player and he will be missed when he goes. He's a rare talent. There are other players coming through like Conan and Stander. We won't be totally lost

[neiliog93]

He's our best 8 of the professional era, so yes, we do. However I expect great things from Conan who is a actually a superior physical specimen to Heaslip and in my opinion could develop into a Picamoles-type number 8. Time will tell.

[outcast eddie]

He's our best 8 of the professional era, so yes, we do. However I expect great things from Conan who is a actually a superior physical specimen to Heaslip and in my opinion could develop into a Picamoles-type number 8. Time will tell.

Taken from Leinster squad biog:

JH - 6' 4" - 17st 4 lbs
JC - 6' 4" - 17st 6 lbs

If JC had an enema they'd be physically identical.

Dubious dimensions aside, saying anyone is a superior physical specimen to JH is a hell of a statement given his incredible durability.

[Peg Leg]

He's our best 8 of the professional era, so yes, we do. However I expect great things from Conan who is a actually a superior physical specimen to Heaslip and in my opinion could develop into a Picamoles-type number 8. Time will tell.

Taken from Leinster squad biog:

JH - 6' 4" - 17st 4 lbs
JC - 6' 4" - 17st 6 lbs

If JC had an enema they'd be physically identical.

Dubious dimensions aside, saying anyone is a superior physical specimen to JH is a hell of a statement given his incredible durability.

Depends on your POV.
As per David Epsteins body bang theory- body types vary massively in design.

Take the example below (stolen from Epsteins excellent Ted talk https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein ... anguage=en )

These two guys 7" height difference, wear the same size trousers.




I'd agree with Neilog regarding JC looking more imposing as a rugby player. But as far as "superior specimen" goes, I expect a new wing of UCD sciences to be constructed to study jamie heaslip, as a specimen no rugby player comes close (in my memory) regarding durability and flexibility (to perform so many roles each, having differing physical demands with seemingly little impact to his fitness).

[Peg Leg]

comma gnomes got a hold of that post....

[simonokeeffe]

He's our best 8 of the professional era, so yes, we do. However I expect great things from Conan who is a actually a superior physical specimen to Heaslip and in my opinion could develop into a Picamoles-type number 8. Time will tell.

Taken from Leinster squad biog:

JH - 6' 4" - 17st 4 lbs
JC - 6' 4" - 17st 6 lbs

If JC had an enema they'd be physically identical.

Dubious dimensions aside, saying anyone is a superior physical specimen to JH is a hell of a statement given his incredible durability.

Just looking at them I'd say Conan has a higher body fat percentage

[Oldschoolsocks]

He's our best 8 of the professional era, so yes, we do. However I expect great things from Conan who is a actually a superior physical specimen to Heaslip and in my opinion could develop into a Picamoles-type number 8. Time will tell.

Taken from Leinster squad biog:

JH - 6' 4" - 17st 4 lbs
JC - 6' 4" - 17st 6 lbs

If JC had an enema they'd be physically identical.

Dubious dimensions aside, saying anyone is a superior physical specimen to JH is a hell of a statement given his incredible durability.

Less looking, more cheering please.
Just looking at them I'd say Conan has a higher body fat percentage

[simonokeeffe]

I have to record most of the games, do you want me cheering in my sitting room?

[offshorerules]

You always have a problem when an experienced international player retires and they have not had any viable challenger to their position for the duration of their career. My own take on it is that POM will be captain by the time the next RWC comes around and he will be playing blindside as its his best position. That will leave a choice of Conan, Stander and possibly SOB based on current showings as first choice No8. But it's a way off yet and while I'm merely speculating we don't look too light in that department so at least the problem can be mitigated.