The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Experimental » April 19th, 2017, 1:55 pm

Im very happy overall with the squad. Gutted for Launchbury and Ringrose (both should take a holiday to nz). T'eo makes sense since hes played with most of the other players. In Gatland we trust!
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » April 19th, 2017, 2:04 pm

12 Welsh when many of them are struggling for form or fitness and they never do well against NZ. The mind boggles.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby CiaranIrl » April 19th, 2017, 2:05 pm

Laighin Break wrote:Wales finished 5th in the 6N and have 12 players included. Scotland finish 3rd and have 2 players :lol:


People will go on about this for a while, but Wales just had a bad year. An objective assessment would probably put the blame firmly at Rob Howley's feet. Scotland beat Wales this year all right, but before that...

2016: Wales won 27-23 in Cardiff
2015: Wales won 26-23 in Edinburgh
2014: Wales won 51-3 in Cardiff
2013: Wales won 28-18 in Edinburgh
2012: Wales won 27-13 in Cardiff
2011: Wales won 24-6 in Edinburgh
2010: Wales won 31-24 in Cardiff
2009: Wales won 26-13 in Edinburgh
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby OTT » April 19th, 2017, 2:12 pm

41 man squad and only 2 Scots. It is farcical. You would wonder what the number would have had to have been to get a few Scots picked 50....60...ffs. You could have thrown in a Gray and a prop and not effected Gatlands test team which we could all have a good go at picking today. The only thing that might have happened is one of them played their way onto the test team and another great Lions story would be born like Wallo and Davidson for us in '97. Especially when anybody with boots will get called up a few weeks into the tour with players dropping like flys. How can a man on his 3rd coaching tour with the Lions lack any sentiment to why people (us the fans and players past and present) buy into this ridiculous concept of the power of 4.

We did quite well (if you think getting players smashed to bits for the Lions is a positive) in getting 11 over the line. I hope they go well and come back in one piece.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » April 19th, 2017, 2:32 pm

I don't think there are many Scots who can feel hard done by though. Johnny Gray is very unlucky but that's about it IMO.

The biggest problem with the squad IMO is that Gatland is trying to win with the same tactics that barely managed to beat a terrible Oz team. I know that's his MO so it was always going to happen but it won't work against NZ, not a hope. It reminds me of Woodward in 2005. He picked his team a year out from the tests and decided to impose some northern hemisphere physicality on them...we got pumped.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby offshorerules » April 19th, 2017, 2:41 pm

I really don't like the Gatland is biased argument but I do wonder about halfpenny and Davies' inclusion.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Lar » April 19th, 2017, 2:44 pm

Enjoyed the one that Joe Launchbury had changed his surname to Llaunchbury in the hope of a late call up.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby backrower8 » April 19th, 2017, 2:53 pm

Stab at Test Team:
McGrath
Best/ George
Furlong
Itoje
Kruis /AWJ
Stander
Warburton
Vunipola
Murray
Sexton
Daly
Farrell
Henshaw
Watson
Hogg

Best/ George
Mako
Sinckler
Henderson
Seanie
Webb
Williams
Payne
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby backrower8 » April 19th, 2017, 2:54 pm

Midweek team:

Marler
Owens
Cole
Ryan
Lawes
O'Mahony
Tipuric
Faletau
Youngs
Biggar
Seymour
Teo
Joseph
Nowell
Halfpenny
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Munsterboy » April 19th, 2017, 4:01 pm

offshorerules wrote:I really don't like the Gatland is biased argument but I do wonder about halfpenny and Davies' inclusion.


Not sure why you don't like it. It's as plain as day and not unique to him. Woodward brought a bunch of past-it English RWC winners with him 12 years ago and shoe horned as many as possible into the rest team despite lacking form and, in some cases, fitness.

Coaches tend to go with lads they know and trust, especially on short jaunts like this. Gatland was always going to pick his boyos and select a Welsh captain.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Munsterboy » April 19th, 2017, 4:05 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:Wales finished 5th in the 6N and have 12 players included. Scotland finish 3rd and have 2 players :lol:


People will go on about this for a while, but Wales just had a bad year. An objective assessment would probably put the blame firmly at Rob Howley's feet. Scotland beat Wales this year all right, but before that...

2016: Wales won 27-23 in Cardiff
2015: Wales won 26-23 in Edinburgh
2014: Wales won 51-3 in Cardiff
2013: Wales won 28-18 in Edinburgh
2012: Wales won 27-13 in Cardiff
2011: Wales won 24-6 in Edinburgh
2010: Wales won 31-24 in Cardiff
2009: Wales won 26-13 in Edinburgh


Firstly, he's picking based on current form, not last year's (or the previous seven for that matter).

Secondly, winning in 2015 and 2016 by a single score and losing the most recent is not a compelling argument for a 12-2 imbalance.

Don't really care to be honest but logic that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Ruckedtobits » April 19th, 2017, 6:19 pm

Jonny Gray and Zander Fagerson are very unlucky and Sinkler, Lawes and Moriarty are very, very lucky. Scotland might also have had open-side flanker (Watson?) selected.

Happy for Best and Payne and hope that Healy is on stand-by. Marler will survive but not prosper in NZ. Poor call to select Lawes and not Gray or Ryan. Leinster and Ireland know that Lawes is an imposter, unless his pack is totally dominant
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Golf Man » April 19th, 2017, 6:49 pm

While Scotlands numbers are small Nel and Jones weren't an option , Watson lost out to tip uric, laidlaw lost out to youngs Russell to Biggar - not sure I disagree with any of those calls - maybe laidlaw - J gray is the obvious one who should have been picked

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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Golf Man » April 19th, 2017, 6:52 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Jonny Gray and Zander Fagerson are very unlucky and Sinkler, Lawes and Moriarty are very, very lucky. Scotland might also have had open-side flanker (Watson?) selected.

Happy for Best and Payne and hope that Healy is on stand-by. Marler will survive but not prosper in NZ. Poor call to select Lawes and not Gray or Ryan. Leinster and Ireland know that Lawes is an imposter, unless his pack is totally dominant

Don't think fagerson is unlucky - third th was always going to be a bit of an outsider - they went with the best impact option rather than the best scrummaging option - fagerson was neither of those

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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby offshorerules » April 19th, 2017, 8:06 pm

Munsterboy wrote:
offshorerules wrote:I really don't like the Gatland is biased argument but I do wonder about halfpenny and Davies' inclusion.


Not sure why you don't like it. It's as plain as day and not unique to him. Woodward brought a bunch of past-it English RWC winners with him 12 years ago and shoe horned as many as possible into the rest team despite lacking form and, in some cases, fitness.

Coaches tend to go with lads they know and trust, especially on short jaunts like this. Gatland was always going to pick his boyos and select a Welsh captain.


Because it's simplistic and the logic behind it is even more simplistic. So you know an average player really well so you select him ahead of a player who consistently plays better than him. It's ridiculous and it's the same as saying that player a gets selected ahead of player b because one plays for cork con and the other plays for Shannon. Just plain silly really.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby All Blacks nil » April 19th, 2017, 8:28 pm

Because it's simplistic and the logic behind it is even more simplistic. So you know an average player really well so you select him ahead of a player who consistently plays better than him. It's ridiculous and it's the same as saying that player a gets selected ahead of player b because one plays for cork con and the other plays for Shannon. Just plain silly really.



Has this ever happened before where a coach overloads a representative side with the players with which he is most familiar?
Ridiculous and plain silly
Terrible state of affairs altogether
However Gatland did win the last Series with the Lions, which surely allows him whom so ever he chooses. If memory serves me right he was pretty much overloaded on the last tour as well.
Last edited by All Blacks nil on April 19th, 2017, 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Peg Leg » April 19th, 2017, 8:32 pm

I hear ya AB0. [WINKING FACE]
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby hugonaut » April 19th, 2017, 8:55 pm

Golf Man wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:Jonny Gray and Zander Fagerson are very unlucky and Sinkler, Lawes and Moriarty are very, very lucky. Scotland might also have had open-side flanker (Watson?) selected.

Happy for Best and Payne and hope that Healy is on stand-by. Marler will survive but not prosper in NZ. Poor call to select Lawes and not Gray or Ryan. Leinster and Ireland know that Lawes is an imposter, unless his pack is totally dominant

Don't think fagerson is unlucky - third th was always going to be a bit of an outsider - they went with the best impact option rather than the best scrummaging option - fagerson was neither of those

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I would have selected both Jonny Gray and Fagerson without a shadow of a doubt. The Scots have every right to be p*ssed off.

To be frank, I look at Rowntree [the Harlequins forwards coach] selecting both Harlequins props and I throw my eyes up to heaven. In fairness to Marler, he was in with a totally legitimate shout – 50 caps, most of them starts, over the last five years. Is he better than Cian Healy? Healy at his best, it's not even a debate. Healy at the moment? Maybe, maybe not. It's a 50/50 call I can live with.

Sinckler? A grand total of 86 mins of test rugby under his belt. 8 career starts in European club competition, 7 of them coming in the Mickey Mouse Cup, 5 of them this season. They couldn't even qualify from their group in the latter competition this season - a group with Timisoara Saracens and Edinburgh in it. In fact Edinburgh did the double over them and his opposite number [Allan Dell] scored a try in both matches. Ouch.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if he was such a sh*t hot tighthead, how come he couldn't get ahead of Kieran Brooks [in Eddie Jones' first season] or Paul Hill [Lancaster's last season, England's 2015 tour to Australia] to sit on the bench? Those lads are alright, but quite a long way from being anything special in test terms. And he couldn't make the bench ahead of them until six months ago. They flew him out to Australia last summer and he didn't even make the matchday 23 once ... even when they had won the series.

Why did he average less than 8 mins/game in the Six Nations? Why did Dan Cole play the full 80mins against France and 78 mins against us?

Frankly, it stinks. For a tour that only takes place once every four years and in the limited selectorial role he has, Rowntree – almost unbelievably - has form: the p*ss-poor selection of Matt Stevens for the 2013 tour, when he hadn't started a Six Nations game for England since February 2008. Five-and-a-f*cking-half years previously. It surprised absolutely nobody bar Rowntree that Stevens was tragic in Australia four years ago.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Fan with smartphone » April 19th, 2017, 10:22 pm

Biggar hasn't been shooting the lights out, Finn Russell is unlucky there, as is Ford though his form is iffy. Fagerson not getting the third tighthead, that's another unlucky one in my book. I agree with Hugo in not seeing the body of work that Sinckler (or Te'o for that matter) has put together. I wouldn't make a case for Watson over Tipuric and they probably need a 6-8 rather than another 7, given recent (and current) injury to the 8s, so Moriarty over Watson - fair enough.

They're all unfortunate, but when you add in Johnny Gray, well, any borderline Scottish independence voters just made up their minds! :D

No scots were harmed in the making of the full back decisions, but I'd have had Mike Brown ahead of Halfpenny at this stage too. No doubt he is a good player, but it's not a great sign for the lions that he is picked. Gatland doesn't use him as an attacking threat, more to cover things, and whilst he is a very good defender and kicks his goals, I'm not sure that's going to be enough against these teams. Stuart Hogg you might say will be the test 15, but the same thing applies midweek anyway. Happy for Payne too, but hard to see quite where he fits in with Halfpenny also picked.

From an Irish perspective, in the spirit of this thread I'm going to choose to look on the positive that exposure to these games will help our players for the rwc. After Chicago and Dublin, there is more reason to be optimistic than there was, but any wins will be well-earned. Here's the view from New Zealand. http://m.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/arti ... d=11841424
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby kermischocolate » April 19th, 2017, 10:52 pm

Don't forget Zander only turned 21 in January. Johnny Gray should be there ahead of Hogg imo. Watson has had a pretty good season.

I think 4/5 from Scotland would have been a fair shout.

16 English I get.
11 Irish I think- seems a bit on the low side, but OK.
12 Welsh including the captain- how, in the name of all that is holy did that happen??? Not that am answer is actually needed.

Now, supporting NZ may take some practice!
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