The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I thought that Best and Cole were excellent in last week's game too so there's no reason they should be totally out of contention for the test team. Even if people disagree with that, they're both only one injury away from being in the squad so shouldn't be playing 80 minutes regardless.

Hadnt thought of this until now but maybe if Liam Williams hadnt played 80 minutes last week he wouldn't have dropped the ball for Ioane's try.

[simonokeeffe]

Yeah no backrower called up so if one of the big 4 gets caught in an airport bathroom with a lady or jumps off a ferry or tosses a midget then someone who played 80 today has to play Saturday or same second row combo is rehashed

[blues_fan]

Henderson incident a salutary lesson for Irish supporters that accidents happen in rugby.

[Dave Cahill]

Henderson incident a salutary lesson for Irish supporters that accidents happen in rugby.

Yes they do, all the time.

[Dave Cahill]

I thought that Best and Cole were excellent in last week's game too so there's no reason they should be totally out of contention for the test team. Even if people disagree with that, they're both only one injury away from being in the squad so shouldn't be playing 80 minutes regardless.

Hadnt thought of this until now but maybe if Liam Williams hadnt played 80 minutes last week he wouldn't have dropped the ball for Ioane's try.

Best and Cole were excellent today. Did Cole do anything legal at all for the entire 80 minutes? Any time the 'Canes came near him though, they could kiss quick ball goodbye.

[dropkick]

I think every players gets £70k and their union gets £70k for a call up. So Gatland basically pumped Lions money into Welsh rugby. There was a nice spread of players (Scarlets, Dragons and Cardiff) to help out the regions.

[neiliog93]

Someone landing awkwardly from a clear-out is a loss dangerous than from a tackle. There is less speed and force involved, and the person is falling from a much lower height It is also virtually impossible to 'drop' someone in the action of clearing them out, which isn't the case with a tackle.

[matt]

Gatland has disgraced himself - there is no other word for it.

I would never have been Gatland's biggest fan but considering NZ is far tougher than Australia or South Africa on and off the field he and the squad have done reasonably well so far and appear to be united unlike some previous tours. The comments against him on this forum are way over the top.

The big issue for the squad was to try and attempt the almost impossible & win 2 tests against NZ. If that happened they were less concerned about the other games although everyone have given their all in games to date. The main theme which is supported by all the squad has been that they have so hard a task that within the laws they will do "whatever it takes". That influenced his thinking re bringing in 6 players for 2 midweek games only before the tests as cover. There are many rights and wrongs re this but I would support him as I don't think the likes of Healy, Hartley, Launchbury, J.Gray etc would have been so keen to come over for 2 midweek games and only get on if there were injuries.

At the end of the day some individuals on this forum give the impression that they don't want the Lions to win and that is their prerogative but at least be honest and say it straight out or say that no matter what decision Gatland makes you will oppose it. Others like me just want to see the end of NZ dominance and enjoy watching the Lions although not as much as Leinster or Ireland. I think it is important that Northern Hemisphere don't continue to be inferior rugby players to NZ which they have been for a long time.

I think 41 players was the right number to bring and they have been used well although Itoje should have been the main man from the start and while I would have offered Russell, G.Davies, Healy, Hartley, Francis or Lee, and Launchbury or J.Gray the chance to be injury only replacements for 2 midweek games only I'm not sure what the response from some of these players would have been.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

How are those tests going?

[matt]

How are those tests going?

The bookies would have expected 10-20 points win for NZ in first test and maybe a bit more in 2nd and 3rd tests and while the Lions squad will be disappointed losing first test by 15 pts not a huge surprise.

Maybe we should fool ourselves by undertaking much easier tours and not try and better ourselves against NZ? If we don't try to beat them we will always be second best.

[simonokeeffe]

If the bar is doing better than the last Lions tour to NZ then thats pretty low
Theyre looking at 4 wins from the 10 games

[Dave Cahill]

Gatland has disgraced himself - there is no other word for it.

I would never have been Gatland's biggest fan but considering NZ is far tougher than Australia or South Africa on and off the field he and the squad have done reasonably well so far and appear to be united unlike some previous tours. The comments against him on this forum are way over the top.

The big issue for the squad was to try and attempt the almost impossible & win 2 tests against NZ. If that happened they were less concerned about the other games although everyone have given their all in games to date. The main theme which is supported by all the squad has been that they have so hard a task that within the laws they will do "whatever it takes". That influenced his thinking re bringing in 6 players for 2 midweek games only before the tests as cover. There are many rights and wrongs re this but I would support him as I don't think the likes of Healy, Hartley, Launchbury, J.Gray etc would have been so keen to come over for 2 midweek games and only get on if there were injuries.

At the end of the day some individuals on this forum give the impression that they don't want the Lions to win and that is their prerogative but at least be honest and say it straight out or say that no matter what decision Gatland makes you will oppose it. Others like me just want to see the end of NZ dominance and enjoy watching the Lions although not as much as Leinster or Ireland. I think it is important that Northern Hemisphere don't continue to be inferior rugby players to NZ which they have been for a long time.

I think 41 players was the right number to bring and they have been used well although Itoje should have been the main man from the start and while I would have offered Russell, G.Davies, Healy, Hartley, Francis or Lee, and Launchbury or J.Gray the chance to be injury only replacements for 2 midweek games only I'm not sure what the response from some of these players would have been.

How he does in the tests are irrelevant. NZ is the hardest place to go looking for a win in any sport - I'd say that only La Paz in soccer is harder - so if he fails to win the series or even a test, so be it. He won't be the first coach and he won't be the last coach to come away from New Zealand empty handed.

But if he puts a team on a pitch with a bench that isn't fit for purpose, that is on him. If he picks players for a tour that he knows aren't going to play, that is on him. If he takes players on tour and doesn't even give them a fair chance, that is one him. If he takes something that is supposed to be the reserved for the very best of the best and reduces it to geographical convenience, that is on him. He got away with not dissimilar behaviour on the last tour, behaviour designed to benefit only Warren Gatland and not the Lions or the players, because they won. This time its unlikely that he'll have that shield.

[FLIP]

He got away with not dissimilar behaviour on the last tour, behaviour designed to benefit only Warren Gatland and not the Lions or the players, because they won. This time its unlikely that he'll have that shield.

And lets note, won because Kurtley Beale slipped in the first match when taking a match winning kick.

So his side barely beat the worst Australian side to face the Lions in the professional era, and probably for a long time before that.

[matt]

The Lions can probably create a similar amount of chances to nz but whereas their skill levels allow them take the majority the lions will only capitalise on the minority in most games hence they will beat nz only occasionally when everything goes right. Codie Taylor's holding onto low pass and Kieran read assist for second try are examples of this. Hopefully we can produce quality Irish coaches in the future but Joe is miles ahead of any other coach available to us and in the meantime we are lucky to have him as I could not see us being no 3 in the world with any other coach.

[Dave Cahill]

Eddie O'Sullivan had us up to number 3 a couple of times if memory serves. Joe has actually had us up to second for a bit a year or two ago.

Joe's time in charge of the the irish team is a bit like that old joke "Remember the worst blowjob you ever had? Great, wasn't it.".

We won the championship in 2014
We won the championship in 2015
We beat France in the Rugby World Cup in Cardiff
We beat South Africa in South Africa
We beat the All Blacks in Chicago
We beat England in the Aviva to stop them doing back to back Grand Slams

We lost to England in 2014
We lost to Wales in 2015
We still haven't won a knock out game at a world cup
We lost the series to a Springbok team and organisation in crisis
We lost the return in the Aviva (though that is being churlish in the extreme)
We lost to Scotland and Wales.

[Hippo]

But if he puts a team on a pitch with a bench that isn't fit for purpose, that is on him. If he picks players for a tour that he knows aren't going to play, that is on him. If he takes players on tour and doesn't even give them a fair chance, that is on him. If he takes something that is supposed to be the reserved for the very best of the best and reduces it to geographical convenience, that is on him. He got away with not dissimilar behaviour on the last tour, behaviour designed to benefit only Warren Gatland and not the Lions or the players, because they won. This time its unlikely that he'll have that shield.

Agree 100%

[Twist]

NZ team out

15. Dagg
14. Naholo
13. Lienert-Brown
12. Williams
11. Ioane
10. Barrett
9. Smith

8. Read
7. Cane
6. Kaino
5. Whitelock
4. Retallick
3. Franks
2. Taylor
1. Moody



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[Twist]

Forgot the bench

16. Harris
17. Crockett
18. Faumuina
19. Barrett
20. Savea
21. Perenara
22. Cruden
23. Laumape

While I'm at it, does no-one wise think the pass to Codie Taylor was forward for NZ's first try last week? Looks clear as day to me


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[simonokeeffe]

Hmmmmmm Naholo has the turning circle of a drunk oil tanker and isnt a great kicker
Start Johnny and Pom and Itoje and kick to the corners or not....

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Forgot the bench

Warren?