The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschool » April 21st, 2017, 3:13 pm

Highlight of this tour already and will still be at the end of the tour was Hansen bristling at the suggestion that if the Lions play Chicago Joeball they'll win.
NZ losing to us must really have rankled.
They pulled into the Aviva determined to put 50 on us to prove Chicago was a fluke.
They were lucky to beat us and blessed to have Jaco refereeing for them.
C'mon Ireland.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby kermischocolate » April 21st, 2017, 5:42 pm

cormac wrote:
kermischocolate wrote:For all those that go and grow as players I give you Stuart Hogg. Went in 2013 as one of the youngest, most exciting players in the NH. Came back an absolute arse with an ego the size of a medium size planet which took an entire season and dropping him from Glasgow's then biggest ever game (Pro12 final in The RDS) to get him anywhere near back on planet earth.

I'm with Blockhead on his views of The Lions.


I don't think the blame lies with the Lions for Stuart Hogg being a bellend. I rather suspect that's all on himself


Oh he absolutely was. He was just a billion times worse after the Lions tour.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Peg Leg » April 21st, 2017, 10:26 pm

kermischocolate wrote:
cormac wrote:
kermischocolate wrote:For all those that go and grow as players I give you Stuart Hogg. Went in 2013 as one of the youngest, most exciting players in the NH. Came back an absolute arse with an ego the size of a medium size planet which took an entire season and dropping him from Glasgow's then biggest ever game (Pro12 final in The RDS) to get him anywhere near back on planet earth.

I'm with Blockhead on his views of The Lions.


I don't think the blame lies with the Lions for Stuart Hogg being a bellend. I rather suspect that's all on himself


Oh he absolutely was. He was just a billion times worse after the Lions tour.

Did he wear his lions kit to training?
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby bamboozle » April 22nd, 2017, 2:45 am

Logorrhea wrote:
brenno wrote:And then I see the bilge that Luke Fitz spouts on Twitter and in his Indo podcasts about the Lions as the "ultimate accolade"


Exactly. What would Luke know anyway. its not as if he actually played the game professionally or anything.


Very good point. I understand why some fans dont like the potential knock on impact the lions tour has on the provincial squads, just like Leinster suffered last season due to the huge world cup exposure. However talk to any professional rugby player in Ireland and 99% of them would agree with those publicly stating how importantly the view being selected for the Lions. I love the lions tour, I love what it represents and its the continuance of tours such as this and the barbarians that keeps the old ethos of rugby in place and stops it slipping down the path of premiership football that is 100% driven by money.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Munsterboy » April 22nd, 2017, 10:54 am

bamboozle wrote:
Logorrhea wrote:
brenno wrote:And then I see the bilge that Luke Fitz spouts on Twitter and in his Indo podcasts about the Lions as the "ultimate accolade"


Exactly. What would Luke know anyway. its not as if he actually played the game professionally or anything.


Very good point. I understand why some fans dont like the potential knock on impact the lions tour has on the provincial squads, just like Leinster suffered last season due to the huge world cup exposure. However talk to any professional rugby player in Ireland and 99% of them would agree with those publicly stating how importantly the view being selected for the Lions. I love the lions tour, I love what it represents and its the continuance of tours such as this and the barbarians that keeps the old ethos of rugby in place and stops it slipping down the path of premiership football that is 100% driven by money.


I understand that love you have for the good old days of touring sides etc. My biggest problem with it is that it's not really like that anymore. It's so commercialised and condensed that it's lost a lot of that old ethos (and I say this as somebody who followed the Lions on their last tour of NZ). The Baa-baas has gone the same way.

You just can't replicate those long leisurely tours of the past, or the Corinthian spirit of the game, in these days of professionalism.

Not saying professionalism is all bad. The standard is so much higher now and competitions like the ECC and the RWC are wonderful. Just not all the great traditions, teams and tours of the past are fit for purpose in this brave new world.

I'll still watch most of the games but I'm really not that bothered about the team selections or even the results anymore. I'll be more interested in how various young lads get on in Japan and the style of rugby Ireland play out there.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Peg Leg » April 22nd, 2017, 11:47 am

Munsterboy wrote:
bamboozle wrote:
Logorrhea wrote:
Exactly. What would Luke know anyway. its not as if he actually played the game professionally or anything.


Very good point. I understand why some fans dont like the potential knock on impact the lions tour has on the provincial squads, just like Leinster suffered last season due to the huge world cup exposure. However talk to any professional rugby player in Ireland and 99% of them would agree with those publicly stating how importantly the view being selected for the Lions. I love the lions tour, I love what it represents and its the continuance of tours such as this and the barbarians that keeps the old ethos of rugby in place and stops it slipping down the path of premiership football that is 100% driven by money.


I understand that love you have for the good old days of touring sides etc. My biggest problem with it is that it's not really like that anymore. It's so commercialised and condensed that it's lost a lot of that old ethos (and I say this as somebody who followed the Lions on their last tour of NZ). The Baa-baas has gone the same way.

You just can't replicate those long leisurely tours of the past, or the Corinthian spirit of the game, in these days of professionalism.

Not saying professionalism is all bad. The standard is so much higher now and competitions like the ECC and the RWC are wonderful. Just not all the great traditions, teams and tours of the past are fit for purpose in this brave new world.

I'll still watch most of the games but I'm really not that bothered about the team selections or even the results anymore. I'll be more interested in how various young lads get on in Japan and the style of rugby Ireland play out there.

Amen
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby hugonaut » April 24th, 2017, 7:51 pm

Munsterboy wrote:
I understand that love you have for the good old days of touring sides etc. My biggest problem with it is that it's not really like that anymore. It's so commercialised and condensed that it's lost a lot of that old ethos (and I say this as somebody who followed the Lions on their last tour of NZ). The Baa-baas has gone the same way.

You just can't replicate those long leisurely tours of the past, or the Corinthian spirit of the game, in these days of professionalism.

Not saying professionalism is all bad. The standard is so much higher now and competitions like the ECC and the RWC are wonderful. Just not all the great traditions, teams and tours of the past are fit for purpose in this brave new world.

I'll still watch most of the games but I'm really not that bothered about the team selections or even the results anymore. I'll be more interested in how various young lads get on in Japan and the style of rugby Ireland play out there.


Well written. I'm very much of the same opinion myself.

NZ is a tough tour as well – it's their winter, which can be really rough weather wise ... not just with regards to weather conditions during matches, but also as simple a thing as limited daylight hours, wind and rain during training and off-days. The Lions tour starts on 5 June and ends on the 8 July; midwinter is the 21 June down there, bang in the middle. A lot of people will remember Drico giving an interview with his teeth chattering after a game against the All Blacks back in the mid-00s [I think it was Wellington in 2008] saying that it was the coldest he had ever been ... not just in a rugby match, but ever!

I also think that now we have finally beaten the All Blacks, there's a slightly different feeling about the Lions amongst Irish rugby fans. I know that I feel differently about it. Seeing Ireland beat the All Blacks was such a momentous occasion for me as a rugby lifer – it genuinely still brings a smile to my face when I think about it.

When Nick Popplewell was the sole Irish player in the Lions team to beat the All Blacks in the second test in 1993, it wasn't like we could use his experience as a springboard to go on and beat them the next time we met them. We were pretty tragic at international level back then, and we only had the one guy who had beaten them.

In 2005 Drico, POC, DOC, Easterby, Shane 'Munch' Byrne and Geordan Murphy all started tests, with Shaggy and ROG making the bench – if they had got a win in one of those games, you would have had four or five Irish players who had beaten NZ and could have taken that experience back with them. As an international side, we were much better positioned to benefit from a winning Lions experience at that stage – we were an unrecognisably better side than we had been in the 90s, and we would go on to play NZ seven times in the next five years – in Nov 2005, 2008 and 2010 and in June 2006 [twice], 2008 and 2010.

But obviously the lads didn't get a win, and the Lions got whipped in all three tests in a miserable tour.

But we beat them on our own last November – and beat them clean on neutral territory, with no asterisks involved – and now we don't need guys touring with the Lions to come back and let the rest of the lads know that New Zealand are beatable. Joey Carberry beat them four days after his twenty-first birthday while he was a couple of months into his second year in the Leinster Academy. There were at least three guys from every province [Trimble, Payne and Best from Ulster; Marmion, Dillane and Bealham from Connacht] who beat them – every province made a contribution and they all get their just credit.

It was such a huge thing to beat the All Blacks after 100+ years of trying; beating them again will always be great – and hopefully it won't be another 100 years – but it'll never be the first time. We've beaten South Africa five times out of the last ten games between us; we've beaten Australia four times and drawn once over the same quantum of games. If either side ever had a hoodoo over us, it's gone.

Sorry for the bloody essay, but I was just trying to rationalise to myself for the first time why I don't feel as strongly about the Lions anymore. I don't hate the concept or anything that visceral. I can see why other people feel strongly in favour of it. But I agree with what Munsterboy has written above. From my perspective, I think that I've most enjoyed the Lions as a vehicle for individual Irish players to excel at the highest level. That element has now gone for me – we've seen 23 Irishmen beat New Zealand, so it's difficult to get as excited about four or five of them doing it as part of a collaborative effort with the English, Welsh and Scottish.

I'll really enjoy it if they play some great rugby and our lads perform at their optimum, but I'm not optimistic about that given how the coaching staff had the equivalent group play in Australia four years ago.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby ronk » April 24th, 2017, 9:09 pm

The energy of guys like BOD played a huge part of the Lions experience for me. It was mystical to see him there so young and delivering on the world stage. The others added to it.

But this is a different era and the amateur vestiges are gone. I still think the Lions is worthwhile but it's diminishing for me, this tour could swing it, but the possible fairytale of Ringrose or Carbery is snuffed out before it begins.

Tours are condensed in general so there's still a place for something with the length and buzz of the Lions but I don't think Gatland is moving them in the right direction. It's no risk power rugby looking for maximum injuries. It's trying to do 2005 right rather than do a different tour.

Lots of experience and lots of guys who've missed big chunks of the season with injury.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschool » April 29th, 2017, 6:55 pm

Should the IRFU/LEINSTER be allowing injury prone players like SOB and Sexton go on the Lions tour?
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschoolsocks » April 30th, 2017, 12:09 am

Oldschool wrote:Should the IRFU/LEINSTER be allowing injury prone players like SOB and Sexton go on the Lions tour?

No
the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Ruckedtobits » April 30th, 2017, 8:06 am

Oldschool wrote:Should the IRFU/LEINSTER be allowing injury prone players like SOB and Sexton go on the Lions tour?


No, no, a thousand times no.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Lar » May 2nd, 2017, 3:56 pm

Plus 1 from me.

Plus 1000 from me in fact.

But no chance of it happening unless one of them is seriously injured between now and the end of Leinster's season.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby matt » May 5th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Just watched the Hurricanes score 7 trys against the Stormers. 5 of the 7 trys involved strategic kicks 4 by Beauden Barrett & 1 by TJ Perenera. Barrett as well as great running ability is now handing his back 3 of Jane, Savea & his brother Jordie Barrett with try scoring cross kicks every game.

No doubt this will not have escaped Gatland's attention but preventing it won't be easy. Barrett even kicked crossfield in his own 22 to Savea for one of the trys. He is bringing out-half play to a new level even beyond Dan Carter.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » May 5th, 2017, 12:57 pm

matt wrote:Just watched the Hurricanes score 7 trys against the Stormers. 5 of the 7 trys involved strategic kicks 4 by Beauden Barrett & 1 by TJ Perenera. Barrett as well as great running ability is now handing his back 3 of Jane, Savea & his brother Jordie Barrett with try scoring cross kicks every game.

No doubt this will not have escaped Gatland's attention but preventing it won't be easy. Barrett even kicked crossfield in his own 22 to Savea for one of the trys. He is bringing out-half play to a new level even beyond Dan Carter.


hmmmmmm
how was his goalkicking?
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 5th, 2017, 1:46 pm

Zebo must feel really hard done by when she sees that kind of thing and thinks back to how he played in Chicago.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby matt » May 5th, 2017, 2:45 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:
matt wrote:Just watched the Hurricanes score 7 trys against the Stormers. 5 of the 7 trys involved strategic kicks 4 by Beauden Barrett & 1 by TJ Perenera. Barrett as well as great running ability is now handing his back 3 of Jane, Savea & his brother Jordie Barrett with try scoring cross kicks every game.

No doubt this will not have escaped Gatland's attention but preventing it won't be easy. Barrett even kicked crossfield in his own 22 to Savea for one of the trys. He is bringing out-half play to a new level even beyond Dan Carter.


hmmmmmm
how was his goalkicking?


Jordie Barrett did the kicking, they got 7 trys 3 converted for 41-22 score.

Options at full back huge with Mc Kenzie & Jordie Barrett challenging Ben Smith.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » May 5th, 2017, 4:17 pm

slim pickings but goalkicking might be their other area of relative weakness

@LRIP calling Zebo 'she'? Have you been reading Neil Francis again? :wink:
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 6th, 2017, 10:02 am

My use of pronouns has always been a miss.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Peg Leg » May 6th, 2017, 10:09 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:My use of pronouns has always been a miss.

V good
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » May 6th, 2017, 12:57 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:My use of pronouns has always been a miss.


I dont dame that worthy of a response
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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