The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby jimbobjoe » April 17th, 2017, 4:29 pm

I don't think Best is a definite. Owens, George, Hartley and Best the front runners with Cronin, Scanell and possibly some Aviva Premiership hookers as a potential surprise inclusion.

On form I'd go for Owens and George with a cointoss for anyone other than Hartley.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby CiaranIrl » April 17th, 2017, 5:44 pm

jimbobjoe wrote:I don't think Best is a definite. Owens, George, Hartley and Best the front runners with Cronin, Scanell and possibly some Aviva Premiership hookers as a potential surprise inclusion.

On form I'd go for Owens and George with a cointoss for anyone other than Hartley.


It's a long time since the Irish Captain wasn't selected. Leadership wise he'll be important. I'd be stunned if he doesn't go.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » April 17th, 2017, 7:39 pm

The Beeb saying Launchbury and Joseph arent going (neither are Haskell or Robshaw)

Joseph has a great try scoring record but its generally hat tricks in massacres
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby matt » April 17th, 2017, 8:51 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:So two days out, do people agree:

The definite: McGrath, Best, Furlong, Stander, Murray, Sexton, Henshaw
The possible: O'Mahony, O'Brien, Healy, Zebo, Ringrose
The unlikely: Ryan, Toner, Heaslip, Kearney, Earls, Payne, Cronin


Best not definite but hopeful he will be ahead of Hartley. Rest of definites agree with.

Think O'Mahony, O'Brien, Ringrose & D.Ryan will make it. BBC just reporting that D.Ryan likely to make it but unconfirmed. That would make 11 Irish.

Unfortunately Marler likely to be just ahead of Healy but that is close. Any of the others would be a bolter.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Fan with smartphone » April 18th, 2017, 1:05 am

simonokeeffe wrote:
hugonaut wrote:Telegraph reporting that Hendo is in as well: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... selection/

Sinckler ahead of Fagerson reeks of Rowntree sticking his oar in again, just like he did with the absolutely useless Matt Stevens ahead of Mike Ross in 2013.


but Stevens singing is not to be sniffed at :wink:


It'd be a fair old surprise and it is the telegraph, so y'know, carries a bit of a health warning. Politically, 3rd choice tighthead would be one that you'd think they could lean to Scotland, given there aren't likely to be too many others, even if Fagerson didn't deserve it (which he does). Would be bad news for Fagerson, but hey, good news for Nicola Sturgeon, eh?
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Logorrhea » April 18th, 2017, 1:22 am

I hink Cronin could be a real option on tour. As an impact hooker there are not many that do it better. Personally I think hes the best bench option of any NH hooker.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » April 18th, 2017, 8:47 am

Fan with smartphone wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:
hugonaut wrote:Telegraph reporting that Hendo is in as well: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... selection/

Sinckler ahead of Fagerson reeks of Rowntree sticking his oar in again, just like he did with the absolutely useless Matt Stevens ahead of Mike Ross in 2013.


but Stevens singing is not to be sniffed at :wink:


It'd be a fair old surprise and it is the telegraph, so y'know, carries a bit of a health warning. Politically, 3rd choice tighthead would be one that you'd think they could lean to Scotland, given there aren't likely to be too many others, even if Fagerson didn't deserve it (which he does). Would be bad news for Fagerson, but hey, good news for Nicola Sturgeon, eh?


Fagerson is not a great scrummager and with 2 French refs thats something theyll go after
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby fourthirtythree » April 18th, 2017, 8:55 am

Sinckler's not that hot either is he?
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby erskinechilders » April 18th, 2017, 10:03 am

fourthirtythree wrote:Sinckler's not that hot either is he?


Thats why I think Ryan is a seizure bolter, excellent in the scrum!
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby brenno » April 18th, 2017, 10:51 am

See no less than Graham Henry has described the tour itinerary as "suicidal". I don't care what some of the players say about the Lions being the ultimate accolade or similar such bullsh1t, it would benefit Ireland far more if as few Irish are chosen. PlAyers with injury records like Sexton and SOB better off resting up for the summer rather than coming back crocked.

No doubt when the games are on I'll watch, but I really don't care about the results of a mad schedule of matches whose main purpose is to raise a load of cash for a nearly broke NZRU. In a professional world, the Lions is a relic which should be consigned to history. And in case anybody accuses me of being a young pup who doesn't appreciate the Lions tradition, I'm a 60 something who furst watched the Lions back in 1971. Time to move on
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Flash Gordon » April 18th, 2017, 11:16 am

brenno wrote:See no less than Graham Henry has described the tour itinerary as "suicidal". I don't care what some of the players say about the Lions being the ultimate accolade or similar such bullsh1t, it would benefit Ireland far more if as few Irish are chosen. PlAyers with injury records like Sexton and SOB better off resting up for the summer rather than coming back crocked.

No doubt when the games are on I'll watch, but I really don't care about the results of a mad schedule of matches whose main purpose is to raise a load of cash for a nearly broke NZRU. In a professional world, the Lions is a relic which should be consigned to history. And in case anybody accuses me of being a young pup who doesn't appreciate the Lions tradition, I'm a 60 something who furst watched the Lions back in 1971. Time to move on


He also talked about the Lions being the Pinnacle of a player's career and how much he respected the Lions. The players and the people inside the game also consider this to be the case. By the way, you could make the same argument for disbanding Ireland as it interferes with Leinster. The tradition of the game is important to me personally and it's one of the points of difference we have vs other sports, I watch the Champions LEague final most years but it'll never feel the way the FA Cup did when I was a kid, a tournament which the English elite purposefully destroyed for financial return.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Fan with smartphone » April 18th, 2017, 11:22 am

Logorrhea wrote:I hink Cronin could be a real option on tour. As an impact hooker there are not many that do it better. Personally I think hes the best bench option of any NH hooker.


I'd take Cronin, he has been class for a while now. He's in a golden period where he is old enough to be strong and steady, but still has plenty of toe. Hartley and George faced off at the weekend and I thought Hartley won that battle. After he went off Northampton fell apart. It's between those 3. I don't understand how Cronin doesn't get picked there, but I'd not be too unhappy if he isn't! I'm more with brenno than FG, but can't deny that the hype gets me every time.

I'd caution against this overly scrum orientated idea SOK. I know it's tempting, the lions will have some serious scrummagers in the front 5, and particularly aimed for the last test as old school said previously, but you gotta have more weapons than the scrum. It's an area that the lions should dominate in anyway, but if you are relying on the scrum to beat them, then you are looking them to knock-on. If the all blacks are getting enough possession to knock-on, then they will score more tries than give up knock-ons. The hurricanes and crusader scrums look good, but the other sides will be in bother against the lions whatever front 5 the lions put out. It's the rest of the game that will be a problem!
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschool » April 18th, 2017, 12:04 pm

brenno wrote:See no less than Graham Henry has described the tour itinerary as "suicidal". I don't care what some of the players say about the Lions being the ultimate accolade or similar such bullsh1t, it would benefit Ireland far more if as few Irish are chosen. PlAyers with injury records like Sexton and SOB better off resting up for the summer rather than coming back crocked.

No doubt when the games are on I'll watch, but I really don't care about the results of a mad schedule of matches whose main purpose is to raise a load of cash for a nearly broke NZRU. In a professional world, the Lions is a relic which should be consigned to history. And in case anybody accuses me of being a young pup who doesn't appreciate the Lions tradition, I'm a 60 something who furst watched the Lions back in 1971. Time to move on

+1 Although I did enjoy Sean Lynch and Mighty Mouse destroying the NZ scrum after they (NZ) thought they (Canterbury) had sorted out their scrum problems by taking out Ray McLaughlin and Sandy Carmichael in the weekend match before the first test.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschool » April 18th, 2017, 12:07 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
brenno wrote:See no less than Graham Henry has described the tour itinerary as "suicidal". I don't care what some of the players say about the Lions being the ultimate accolade or similar such bullsh1t, it would benefit Ireland far more if as few Irish are chosen. PlAyers with injury records like Sexton and SOB better off resting up for the summer rather than coming back crocked.

No doubt when the games are on I'll watch, but I really don't care about the results of a mad schedule of matches whose main purpose is to raise a load of cash for a nearly broke NZRU. In a professional world, the Lions is a relic which should be consigned to history. And in case anybody accuses me of being a young pup who doesn't appreciate the Lions tradition, I'm a 60 something who furst watched the Lions back in 1971. Time to move on


He also talked about the Lions being the Pinnacle of a player's career and how much he respected the Lions. The players and the people inside the game also consider this to be the case. By the way, you could make the same argument for disbanding Ireland as it interferes with Leinster. The tradition of the game is important to me personally and it's one of the points of difference we have vs other sports, I watch the Champions LEague final most years but it'll never feel the way the FA Cup did when I was a kid, a tournament which the English elite purposefully destroyed for financial return.

Ask any player would they prefer a GS or a Lions test cap and what do you think their reply would be.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Laighin Break » April 18th, 2017, 1:07 pm

Oldschool wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:
brenno wrote:See no less than Graham Henry has described the tour itinerary as "suicidal". I don't care what some of the players say about the Lions being the ultimate accolade or similar such bullsh1t, it would benefit Ireland far more if as few Irish are chosen. PlAyers with injury records like Sexton and SOB better off resting up for the summer rather than coming back crocked.

No doubt when the games are on I'll watch, but I really don't care about the results of a mad schedule of matches whose main purpose is to raise a load of cash for a nearly broke NZRU. In a professional world, the Lions is a relic which should be consigned to history. And in case anybody accuses me of being a young pup who doesn't appreciate the Lions tradition, I'm a 60 something who furst watched the Lions back in 1971. Time to move on


He also talked about the Lions being the Pinnacle of a player's career and how much he respected the Lions. The players and the people inside the game also consider this to be the case. By the way, you could make the same argument for disbanding Ireland as it interferes with Leinster. The tradition of the game is important to me personally and it's one of the points of difference we have vs other sports, I watch the Champions LEague final most years but it'll never feel the way the FA Cup did when I was a kid, a tournament which the English elite purposefully destroyed for financial return.

Ask any player would they prefer a GS or a Lions test cap and what do you think their reply would be.
Not at you 'Flash' but pinnacle my ar$e Graham.


I reckon players would also prefer a Champions Cup than a Lions test cap. I'd hope they'd prefer that than a Lions series win even.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » April 18th, 2017, 1:26 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:Sinckler's not that hot either is he?


No sir he is not
More a case Fagerson cant be that aggrieved/its not that heinous an omission. Sinckler gets in on potential English bias via Rowntree. Neil being injured all year gicked things up

Would love Ryan to go
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby fourthirtythree » April 18th, 2017, 1:59 pm

For me Ryan has a son good a claim as Sinckler. I don't see his name mentioned in the English media I have read at all. And they seem fairly confident with some of their squad picks so there seems to be some inside line.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » April 18th, 2017, 2:02 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:For me Ryan has a son good a claim as Sinckler. I don't see his name mentioned in the English media I have read at all. And they seem fairly confident with some of their squad picks so there seems to be some inside line.


English coaches leaking stuff?
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby matt » April 18th, 2017, 2:30 pm

[quote="Laighin Break"][quote="Oldschool"][quote="Flash Gordon"][quote="brenno"]See no less than Graham Henry has described the tour itinerary as "suicidal". I don't care what some of the players say about the Lions being the ultimate accolade or similar such bullsh1t, it would benefit Ireland far more if as few Irish are chosen. PlAyers with injury records like Sexton and SOB better off resting up for the summer rather than coming back crocked.

As Graham Henry says it is a "suicidal" fixture list to play NZ in 3 tests & 6 of 7 other games against top local teams. From June 7th to July 8th they play Blues, Crusaders, Highlanders, Maori, Chiefs, 1st Test, Hurricanes, 2nd Test, 3rd Test that's 9 top games in 31 days.

I hope we don't end up losing J.McGrath, Furlong, SOB, Sexton, Henshaw or Ringrose or anyone else picked to a long spell out with injury but that is an insane fixture list.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Lar » April 18th, 2017, 2:34 pm

Lions is a personal accolade - most rugby medals are handed out for team events.

No doubt any of the Irish players selected for the Squad and especially for any Test side can appreciate the personal honour, but I would be very disappointed (and surprised) if they valued a Lions cap greater than a 6N win or ERCC win - maybe even a Pro12 win FFS.

The tradition was for a far longer tour where a team and squad ethic could develop and they played often enough to play to systems the coaches wanted them to play. The modern tour in the professional era is far shorter and the number of times the Test team actually plays together very limited so the side is pretty largely a scratch side, albeit full of experienced professionals who will be used to learning new systems more quickly than their amateur counterparts. The game schedule is simply crazy and that is never going to change given the demands of the modern professional calendar.

The Lions is a money making exercise and little more at this stage. I am with brenno. I'll watch when the test matches are on but I would genuinely prefer as few Irish players to be involved as possible (particularly Johnny Sexton who I think could use a decent break this summer).
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