The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Logorrhea » June 4th, 2017, 3:11 pm

Rightly so too. Few of them are going in with any sort of form.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » June 4th, 2017, 6:37 pm

Logorrhea wrote:Rightly so too. Few of them are going in with any sort of form.


And or fitness
But thats a chicken and egg thing
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby CiaranIrl » June 4th, 2017, 6:49 pm

Raydollard wrote:Real possibility of just one or two Irish players on team for first test scrum and scrum half.


Given Farrell is now the more likely 10, I'd say Henshaw & Davies is a very possible centre pairing. I'm not at all sold on T'eo.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » June 5th, 2017, 9:48 am

Irish dominate the Lions team for Wednesday in a bad way
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby CiaranIrl » June 5th, 2017, 4:56 pm

So Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Tadhg Furlong, George Kruis, O’Mahony, Sean O’Brien, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Jonathan Davies, Liam Williams and George North will all start vs the Crusaders. 9 of that looks like the test team. O'Mahony & O'Brien probably not.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby neilinboston » June 6th, 2017, 12:43 am

CiaranIrl wrote:So Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Tadhg Furlong, George Kruis, O’Mahony, Sean O’Brien, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Jonathan Davies, Liam Williams and George North will all start vs the Crusaders. 9 of that looks like the test team. O'Mahony & O'Brien probably not.

Were only starting 11?
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby CiaranIrl » June 6th, 2017, 8:02 am

neilinboston wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:So Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Tadhg Furlong, George Kruis, O’Mahony, Sean O’Brien, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Jonathan Davies, Liam Williams and George North will all start vs the Crusaders. 9 of that looks like the test team. O'Mahony & O'Brien probably not.

Were only starting 11?


No, he said he would start everyone in the first three games. None of that 11 have started a game yet. The prevailing wisdom is that he would start something close to his test team against the Crusaders.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » June 6th, 2017, 9:20 am

not the most scientific barommeter of all time but going by volume of posting here and on twitter there seems to be a record low in interest in the Lions
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Flash Gordon » June 6th, 2017, 10:31 am

matt wrote:Awful performance and Sexton & Henderson now under pressure after poor games. Laidlaw not at this level.

Faleteu best Lions player Teo ok and Kruis & Farrell improved matters but Lions far too predictable & prone to errors which is a bad combination.

How much just arriving in NZ 3 days earlier mattered we will only discover in next few weeks.


Wouldn't worry too much about the errors - they'll be ironed out and they got close to the line 3 or 4 times where you'd expect them to score. A couple of scores and you're in a different game. Faletau was really excellent as you say as was Moriarty. Sexton's performance was worrying in that it was a continuation of some poor recent form - though in fairness, he had to play outside Laidlaw who was pretty poor. Another knock for him that looked to leave him shaken. He'll need to put in a performance in his next start. Was pretty disappointed in the scrum too, the Lions won the series in Australia due to scrum dominance but against a scratch team they didn't do much - even when Furlong came on.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 6th, 2017, 12:44 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:not the most scientific barommeter of all time but going by volume of posting here and on twitter there seems to be a record low in interest in the Lions


I'm not invested in it myself but I'd say a part of the problem is the time difference. Most people probably get their rugby news throughout the day and discuss it as a break from work but the time difference doesn't really allow for that now.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 6th, 2017, 12:47 pm

Plumtree said that Dane Coles might not make the tests. He's had concussion since March. Retallick also out this week because he's still suffering from headaches.

It really is worrying how prevalent this is now. I'd love to see them play because they're so good to watch but mainly I just hope they're healthy again ASAP.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby brenno » June 6th, 2017, 2:05 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:not the most scientific barommeter of all time but going by volume of posting here and on twitter there seems to be a record low in interest in the Lions


Have to say most rugby people I know are pretty ambivalent about the Lions, if they win great and if they lose don't really give a toss. For some, the Lions lost its allure long ago, others think it's primarily a moneymaking exercise to prop the very dodgy finances of the unions in NZ, Oz and SA - as evidenced by the lunatic schedule the Lions have over the next few weeks.

As far as Irish players are concerned, I've long been critical of the view among some of the players that the Lions is somehow the ultimate accolade for a player and I've taken flak from some on these board for airing that view. For me, the ultimate accolade for any Irish player is first of all the green shirt and then their provincial shirts - and the Lions comes pretty far down the pecking order after that. I'm far more interested to see how our young players get on in US and Japan than I am in the Lions. From forums like 606 it seems to me that the English and Welsh are the only ones who consider the Lions the ultimate, the Scots have too few players in the squad to give a toss and here it's seems to be down the priority list.

It seems that after this tour, discussions begin with the SH unions on a new 12-year cycle. For me, the SH unions, and particularly NZ, should be told the current system is dead, future tours will only start minimum of two weeks after Pro12/AP finals are over, tours shorter (maybe 3 warm-uo games followed by 3 tests). If they don't like it tough and if NZ takes the view that as they're the best team in the world everybody else should do as they want, well just tell them sorry no dice. NZ will no doubt bleat about how much they contribute to NH coffers in the form of the autumn internationals, but that's nothing remotely near the cash cow that Lions tour is for NZRU. If the money dries up and suddenly NZ finds pay the sort of salaries their top players demand and those players fly off to the moneybags French and English clubs, then the penny might finally drop.

I've seen the bullsh1t from John Spencer that the Lions are very happy with the itinerary, but player welfare seems to secondary on this tour. On jetlag, I travelled to NZ on a hiking trip 10 years ago and only avoided jetlag by stopping off in Hong Kong for a couple of days on the way. Others who had travelled directly without a stopover were like the walking dead for the first week of that trip.

Does anybody seriously believe that it would be far better for players with injury records - JS and SOB being the most obvious - would be far better off taking the summer off to recover for next season and the build up to a world cup two years down the road.

That said, I'll probably be a hypocrite and still get up at 8.30 tomorrow morning to watch the Blues game -
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby neilinboston » June 6th, 2017, 2:12 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
neilinboston wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:So Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Tadhg Furlong, George Kruis, O’Mahony, Sean O’Brien, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Jonathan Davies, Liam Williams and George North will all start vs the Crusaders. 9 of that looks like the test team. O'Mahony & O'Brien probably not.

Were only starting 11?


No, he said he would start everyone in the first three games. None of that 11 have started a game yet. The prevailing wisdom is that he would start something close to his test team against the Crusaders.

I really should stop skim reading this whole drinking...
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby neilinboston » June 6th, 2017, 2:16 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Plumtree said that Dane Coles might not make the tests. He's had concussion since March. Retallick also out this week because he's still suffering from headaches.

It really is worrying how prevalent this is now. I'd love to see them play because they're so good to watch but mainly I just hope they're healthy again ASAP.

Thankfully it's being accepted now, there's a slew of players out there who would have just played through for years. It scares me to think what shape they'll be in in 20 years.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » June 6th, 2017, 6:57 pm

neilinboston wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Plumtree said that Dane Coles might not make the tests. He's had concussion since March. Retallick also out this week because he's still suffering from headaches.

It really is worrying how prevalent this is now. I'd love to see them play because they're so good to watch but mainly I just hope they're healthy again ASAP.

Thankfully it's being accepted now, there's a slew of players out there who would have just played through for years. It scares me to think what shape they'll be in in 20 years.


Kieran Read has had A LOT of problems with concussion too and am amazed he's still playing

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:not the most scientific barommeter of all time but going by volume of posting here and on twitter there seems to be a record low in interest in the Lions


I'm not invested in it myself but I'd say a part of the problem is the time difference. Most people probably get their rugby news throughout the day and discuss it as a break from work but the time difference doesn't really allow for that now.


That could well be part of it
SA has same time zone but Oz has the far higher Irish/expat population so more Irish would go there too
Think another part is our biggest sports only start in the summer whereas in England theirs shuts down
I think the Gatlandisation of successive tours has come into it too
Dare I say it Ireland beating the ABs has probably taken some of the allure away too
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby ronk » June 6th, 2017, 9:17 pm

neilinboston wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:
neilinboston wrote:[quote="CiaranIrl"]So Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Tadhg Furlong, George Kruis, O’Mahony, Sean O’Brien, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Jonathan Davies, Liam Williams and George North will all start vs the Crusaders. 9 of that looks like the test team. O'Mahony & O'Brien probably not.

Were only starting 11?


No, he said he would start everyone in the first three games. None of that 11 have started a game yet. The prevailing wisdom is that he would start something close to his test team against the Crusaders.

I really should stop skim reading this whole drinking...[/quote]

Not worth it.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschool » June 6th, 2017, 10:36 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Plumtree said that Dane Coles might not make the tests. He's had concussion since March. Retallick also out this week because he's still suffering from headaches.

It really is worrying how prevalent this is now. I'd love to see them play because they're so good to watch but mainly I just hope they're healthy again ASAP.

A doctor on TV3 this morning basically said anyone under the age of 18 shouldn't be playing contact sports and rugby was one of the sports named specifically.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschool » June 6th, 2017, 10:38 pm

brenno wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:not the most scientific barommeter of all time but going by volume of posting here and on twitter there seems to be a record low in interest in the Lions


Have to say most rugby people I know are pretty ambivalent about the Lions, if they win great and if they lose don't really give a toss. For some, the Lions lost its allure long ago, others think it's primarily a moneymaking exercise to prop the very dodgy finances of the unions in NZ, Oz and SA - as evidenced by the lunatic schedule the Lions have over the next few weeks.

As far as Irish players are concerned, I've long been critical of the view among some of the players that the Lions is somehow the ultimate accolade for a player and I've taken flak from some on these board for airing that view. For me, the ultimate accolade for any Irish player is first of all the green shirt and then their provincial shirts - and the Lions comes pretty far down the pecking order after that. I'm far more interested to see how our young players get on in US and Japan than I am in the Lions. From forums like 606 it seems to me that the English and Welsh are the only ones who consider the Lions the ultimate, the Scots have too few players in the squad to give a toss and here it's seems to be down the priority list.

It seems that after this tour, discussions begin with the SH unions on a new 12-year cycle. For me, the SH unions, and particularly NZ, should be told the current system is dead, future tours will only start minimum of two weeks after Pro12/AP finals are over, tours shorter (maybe 3 warm-uo games followed by 3 tests). If they don't like it tough and if NZ takes the view that as they're the best team in the world everybody else should do as they want, well just tell them sorry no dice. NZ will no doubt bleat about how much they contribute to NH coffers in the form of the autumn internationals, but that's nothing remotely near the cash cow that Lions tour is for NZRU. If the money dries up and suddenly NZ finds pay the sort of salaries their top players demand and those players fly off to the moneybags French and English clubs, then the penny might finally drop.

I've seen the bullsh1t from John Spencer that the Lions are very happy with the itinerary, but player welfare seems to secondary on this tour. On jetlag, I travelled to NZ on a hiking trip 10 years ago and only avoided jetlag by stopping off in Hong Kong for a couple of days on the way. Others who had travelled directly without a stopover were like the walking dead for the first week of that trip.

Does anybody seriously believe that it would be far better for players with injury records - JS and SOB being the most obvious - would be far better off taking the summer off to recover for next season and the build up to a world cup two years down the road.

That said, I'll probably be a hypocrite and still get up at 8.30 tomorrow morning to watch the Blues game -

You're asking all the right questions and playing for your country is the ultimate accolade.
Playing for a team that loses a lot more games than it wins just says "substandard".
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschool » June 6th, 2017, 10:39 pm

neilinboston wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Plumtree said that Dane Coles might not make the tests. He's had concussion since March. Retallick also out this week because he's still suffering from headaches.

It really is worrying how prevalent this is now. I'd love to see them play because they're so good to watch but mainly I just hope they're healthy again ASAP.

Thankfully it's being accepted now, there's a slew of players out there who would have just played through for years. It scares me to think what shape they'll be in in 20 years.

If it scares you, can you imagine how worried they might be.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Fan with smartphone » June 7th, 2017, 11:07 am

Payne went down with his calf looking the problem. Could see another Irish player called in there.
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