The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » December 2nd, 2016, 4:42 pm

@peg Hartley, Best, George are the top 3 hookers right now IMo. If Ford loses his Scotland place he's fupped but if he doesnt a la Maitland last time and or himself, Ford has a chance on horsetrading alone

@GM I think Hogg is in slightly more of a scrap, Cole and Furlong are nailed on but neither of us having anything much past them. Nel is fighting Samson Lee and he should win that easily. Hogg has 1/2p, Williams, Brown but will most likely go. I think Seymour more a case of there being limited options at right wing; Watson, L Williams and not much else as cant see Trimble or Cuthbert or May going at all
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Ruckedtobits » December 3rd, 2016, 1:45 pm

Latest Lions Coaching rumour is that Ben Ryan, Fiji 7's Olympic winning Coach will be Backs / Skills Coach. Wouldn't have been top of too many lists for that role but undoubtedly very successful.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby ronk » December 4th, 2016, 2:25 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:After the last Lions tour he made some comments to the welsh media that he had taken the likes of Rowntree and Farrell on the tour in order to gain an insight into their systems etc because Wales were to meet them in the 2015 RWC. The other unions were less than impressed and for the second time in his career Gatland was on the receiving end of a dressing down in a Dublin hotel.


Yeah but he got picked again


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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » December 4th, 2016, 9:02 pm

he had a tenuous at best chance of going but Lydiate has been ruled out of the tour
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby neiliog93 » December 5th, 2016, 8:46 pm

I should clarify those optimistic comments about Scotland...those I actually expect to be selected are Nel, Johnny Gray, Stuart Hogg and Tommy Seymour. Huw Jones has a chance if his 6 Nations form is as good as his AIs form.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » December 5th, 2016, 9:32 pm

neiliog93 wrote:I should clarify those optimistic comments about Scotland...those I actually expect to be selected are Nel, Johnny Gray, Stuart Hogg and Tommy Seymour. Huw Jones has a chance if his 6 Nations form is as good as his AIs form.


after consulting experts :wink: Seymour is generally only a left wing which would set up back/put him in more competitive field than right wing which is Watson then fullbacks then nobody
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Fan with smartphone » December 5th, 2016, 9:43 pm

Halfpenny played 14 for wales v japan there. I thought it unusual at the time but now you say that, well would they shoehorn him there?
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby leinsterforever » December 5th, 2016, 11:11 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:I should clarify those optimistic comments about Scotland...those I actually expect to be selected are Nel, Johnny Gray, Stuart Hogg and Tommy Seymour. Huw Jones has a chance if his 6 Nations form is as good as his AIs form.


after consulting experts :wink: Seymour is generally only a left wing which would set up back/put him in more competitive field than right wing which is Watson then fullbacks then nobody


Watson was playing left wing all the time he was wearing 14
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby neiliog93 » December 6th, 2016, 12:45 am

1/2penny has been either injured or playing badly for the last year, even with Gatty coaching if his form doesn't pick up he might not make it.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » December 6th, 2016, 11:48 am

leinsterforever wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:I should clarify those optimistic comments about Scotland...those I actually expect to be selected are Nel, Johnny Gray, Stuart Hogg and Tommy Seymour. Huw Jones has a chance if his 6 Nations form is as good as his AIs form.


after consulting experts :wink: Seymour is generally only a left wing which would set up back/put him in more competitive field than right wing which is Watson then fullbacks then nobody


Watson was playing left wing all the time he was wearing 14


Cheers, right wing gets even stickier so

Wales have shorhorned L Williams there at 14 so could be him but not many great options

Halfpenny on the wing for Lions is crazy unless hes needed for his kicking but with Sexton and/or Farrell starting that is not an issue. TBH I feel the same about him even at fullback for Lions
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Fan with smartphone » December 7th, 2016, 2:44 am

Well yeah, I agree, but Gatland is in a bit of a bind here. Which welsh players will make the team or squad? Less than last time I'd imagine. Tough sell for him.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby TerenureJim » December 7th, 2016, 3:08 am

Anyone reckon there might be a few Irish lads who'd prefer to hit Japan to prep and get more time with Joe than head to NZ with Gatland. It's the first time I can see the national side having a vastly preferable coaching set up and with NZ having been defeated and with RWC 2019 very quickly approaching it looks quite appealing vs several hidings in a dark NZ winter with Heartley as Capt. and Gatland as coach.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Peg Leg » December 7th, 2016, 9:17 am

TerenureJim wrote:Anyone reckon there might be a few Irish lads who'd prefer to hit Japan to prep and get more time with Joe than head to NZ with Gatland. It's the first time I can see the national side having a vastly preferable coaching set up and with NZ having been defeated and with RWC 2019 very quickly approaching it looks quite appealing vs several hidings in a dark NZ winter with Heartley as Capt. and Gatland as coach.

The coaching set up may not want many of the potential lions candidates. Probably looking to strengthen squad depth and get a wider group up to speed with "The System".
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Laighin Break » December 7th, 2016, 10:11 am

Would be interesting to know if/what players have turned down travelling with the Lions in the professional era.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Golf Man » December 7th, 2016, 10:29 am

TerenureJim wrote:Anyone reckon there might be a few Irish lads who'd prefer to hit Japan to prep and get more time with Joe than head to NZ with Gatland. It's the first time I can see the national side having a vastly preferable coaching set up and with NZ having been defeated and with RWC 2019 very quickly approaching it looks quite appealing vs several hidings in a dark NZ winter with Heartley as Capt. and Gatland as coach.


Short answer - no

The Lions still holds a huge draw for top players, and despite what many will say about Gatland (myself included) - he delivered the first successful tour since 1997. The vast majority of players will get one opportunity to play for the Lions v NZ - its a huge ask to beat them, but most top level guys will really embrace that. We probably have about 20 players who are looking at the Lions and believe that they could get selected

Furlong/Best/Cronin/McGrath/Healy
Toner/Henderson/Ryan/Dillane
POM/Stander/VDF/SOB/Heaslip
Murray/Sexton
Henshaw/Payne/Ringrose
Kearney/Earls/Zebo/Trimble

Obviously the most we'll probably get will be half of the above but I don't think there is one who would opt for Japan over NZ

Japan is more for the likes of Bealham, Tracey/Scannell, Ruddock, JOD, Leavy, Marmion, Jackson, TOH, Adekoloun, Healy, Sweetnam - for whom its a huge opportunity
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby CiaranIrl » December 7th, 2016, 11:46 am

Golf Man wrote:
TerenureJim wrote:Anyone reckon there might be a few Irish lads who'd prefer to hit Japan to prep and get more time with Joe than head to NZ with Gatland. It's the first time I can see the national side having a vastly preferable coaching set up and with NZ having been defeated and with RWC 2019 very quickly approaching it looks quite appealing vs several hidings in a dark NZ winter with Heartley as Capt. and Gatland as coach.


Short answer - no

The Lions still holds a huge draw for top players, and despite what many will say about Gatland (myself included) - he delivered the first successful tour since 1997. The vast majority of players will get one opportunity to play for the Lions v NZ - its a huge ask to beat them, but most top level guys will really embrace that. We probably have about 20 players who are looking at the Lions and believe that they could get selected

Furlong/Best/Cronin/McGrath/Healy
Toner/Henderson/Ryan/Dillane
POM/Stander/VDF/SOB/Heaslip
Murray/Sexton
Henshaw/Payne/Ringrose
Kearney/Earls/Zebo/Trimble

Obviously the most we'll probably get will be half of the above but I don't think there is one who would opt for Japan over NZ

Japan is more for the likes of Bealham, Tracey/Scannell, Ruddock, JOD, Leavy, Marmion, Jackson, TOH, Adekoloun, Healy, Sweetnam - for whom its a huge opportunity


A few of those would need to be seriously deluded to think they might get selected by the lions.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby simonokeeffe » December 7th, 2016, 12:34 pm

Hardto draw a straight line but some of our subs like Healy, JVDF have a good shot at touring but some of our starters Trimble, Payne have very little chance

Would agree though Japan is for Bealham, Dillane, Marmion, Scannell, Jackson, Carberry etc
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Golf Man » December 8th, 2016, 11:42 am

CiaranIrl wrote:
Golf Man wrote:
Short answer - no

The Lions still holds a huge draw for top players, and despite what many will say about Gatland (myself included) - he delivered the first successful tour since 1997. The vast majority of players will get one opportunity to play for the Lions v NZ - its a huge ask to beat them, but most top level guys will really embrace that. We probably have about 20 players who are looking at the Lions and believe that they could get selected

Furlong/Best/Cronin/McGrath/Healy
Toner/Henderson/Ryan/Dillane
POM/Stander/VDF/SOB/Heaslip
Murray/Sexton
Henshaw/Payne/Ringrose
Kearney/Earls/Zebo/Trimble

Obviously the most we'll probably get will be half of the above but I don't think there is one who would opt for Japan over NZ

Japan is more for the likes of Bealham, Tracey/Scannell, Ruddock, JOD, Leavy, Marmion, Jackson, TOH, Adekoloun, Healy, Sweetnam - for whom its a huge opportunity


A few of those would need to be seriously deluded to think they might get selected by the lions.


Who and why??

Anybody who is starting for Ireland is going to think they have a good shot at the Lions, and its easy to make a case for them

Of the players I mentioned above

Front Row - Cronin is the only out there suggestion - he seems to have completly seen off Strauss at Leinster and its not a position of depth for the Lions -Hartley Best (although Gatland not a massive fan - see 2013), Owens, Ford, George
Second Row - Ryan is probably a leap too far but would definitely fit into the good Lions tourist category. Henderson and Dillane would be bolters (particularly Dillane) but again they fit the profile of bolters completely
Back Row - Every one of those 5 will fancy their chances - POM has dropped down the rankings because on onjury - at 2015 WC he would have been seen as nailed on imo
SH/OH - speak for themselves
Centres - Payne and Ringrose would be possible outside shots but having Farrell as defensive coach would help Payne no end and Ringrose again is a bolter - wopuld you be suprised if Ringrose took off in the 6N?
Back 3 - Kearney has huge experience, the others are generally starting for Ireland and offer threats to a varying level in a position that isn't the Lions strongest, and offer versatility - again Trimble in particular here might be a long shot but would fall into the same category as Ryan and strikes me that he would be a Gatland type player

In any case the point was that they will all believe they can get selected and will be striving for it - I think thats definitely the case - there is no delusion needed - soe of course would nbeed a massive 6N, but would believe they could deliver on that (especially in a team that appear to be on the rise)
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Oldschool » December 8th, 2016, 2:25 pm

Golf Man wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:
Golf Man wrote:
Short answer - no

The Lions still holds a huge draw for top players, and despite what many will say about Gatland (myself included) - he delivered the first successful tour since 1997. The vast majority of players will get one opportunity to play for the Lions v NZ - its a huge ask to beat them, but most top level guys will really embrace that. We probably have about 20 players who are looking at the Lions and believe that they could get selected

Furlong/Best/Cronin/McGrath/Healy
Toner/Henderson/Ryan/Dillane
POM/Stander/VDF/SOB/Heaslip
Murray/Sexton
Henshaw/Payne/Ringrose
Kearney/Earls/Zebo/Trimble

Obviously the most we'll probably get will be half of the above but I don't think there is one who would opt for Japan over NZ

Japan is more for the likes of Bealham, Tracey/Scannell, Ruddock, JOD, Leavy, Marmion, Jackson, TOH, Adekoloun, Healy, Sweetnam - for whom its a huge opportunity


A few of those would need to be seriously deluded to think they might get selected by the lions.


Who and why??

Anybody who is starting for Ireland is going to think they have a good shot at the Lions, and its easy to make a case for them

Of the players I mentioned above

Front Row - Cronin is the only out there suggestion - he seems to have completly seen off Strauss at Leinster and its not a position of depth for the Lions -Hartley Best (although Gatland not a massive fan - see 2013), Owens, Ford, George
Second Row - Ryan is probably a leap too far but would definitely fit into the good Lions tourist category. Henderson and Dillane would be bolters (particularly Dillane) but again they fit the profile of bolters completely
Back Row - Every one of those 5 will fancy their chances - POM has dropped down the rankings because on onjury - at 2015 WC he would have been seen as nailed on imo
SH/OH - speak for themselves
Centres - Payne and Ringrose would be possible outside shots but having Farrell as defensive coach would help Payne no end and Ringrose again is a bolter - wopuld you be suprised if Ringrose took off in the 6N?
Back 3 - Kearney has huge experience, the others are generally starting for Ireland and offer threats to a varying level in a position that isn't the Lions strongest, and offer versatility - again Trimble in particular here might be a long shot but would fall into the same category as Ryan and strikes me that he would be a Gatland type player

In any case the point was that they will all believe they can get selected and will be striving for it - I think thats definitely the case - there is no delusion needed - soe of course would nbeed a massive 6N, but would believe they could deliver on that (especially in a team that appear to be on the rise)

Good post.
However I don't think RK has any chance of going.
POM - I think will, if he is fit he'll go.
His 20min cameo against OZ was good but he showed what he can bring to the table with his two carries in the lead up to the winning try were gold dust.
Stats go about number of carriers etc but it's telling carries like POM's that are really noteworthy.
JS took a punt on him for OZ but his big match temperament was worth it.
I've always been a fan of Ryan's, if he was Welsh he'd be on the plane.
Good luck over the back to backs btw.
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Re: The looking forward to the Lions Tour thread

Postby Golf Man » December 8th, 2016, 5:16 pm

Its very very hard to see Kearney going - Hogg is in pole position to start and will definitely travel. There are also a lot of options at 15 who are versatile - Willaims, Brown, Zebo, Watson - and all that is before you mention Halfpenny - who doesn't at this point in time deserve it but its Gatland

POM - no idea -> depends on 6N - very very tough backrow selection - 5 Irish, 3/4 Welsh, 3/4 English and maybe 1 Scot have strong cases - and thats before you condier guys like Itoje (nailed on obv) and Henderson who could be considered primarily locks

Munster - huge run of games coming up - I'd be relatively confident about the weekend but an 8 game sequence of

Glasgow (A)
Leicester(H)
Leicester(A)
Leinster(H)
Connacht(A)
Racing(A)
Glasgow(A)
Racing(H)

is about as hard as it gets - have to be concerned about we will come through that, despite things going ok atm
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