Irish Depth Chart October 2016

[simonokeeffe]

Flannery is Munster scrum coach

[Golf Man]

I think Kilcoyne and Cronin have and will continue to suffer in the short term) from RWC winning Springbok BJ Bothas(© Stuart Barnes) reputation. He was on the wane for awhile before he got put out to pasture. They're left with the reputation for resets, penos and YCs, and IIRC Nigel Owens ommented a few years ago that refs take reputation into account (could have been subconsciously). I don't think Schmidt has ever trusted either of them up to now. It might change after this season, but I can see him sticking with his current choices thru the 6N.

Buckley from what I've read elsewhere is a bit of headbanger. Unless he's started to behave himself he won't be involved.

Not sure about this - Kilcoyne has had his struggles at scrum time, but he has definitely become a lot more solid. Cronins issue was more of consistency - went through stages where he was excellent and then stages where he was poor - also has had a run of injuries - discipline was an issue for a while as well

I don't think Schmidt will change - but thats because the incumbents are so good - I think the gap on both sides of Heal;y in second place has increased btw

Can't see the Botha arguement - and certainly not now Cronin and Kilcoyne have been fine in eth scrum this year and part of major part of our game

They are all great options - would have thought that Schmidt will go with 6 props in the initial squad - and at the moment thats probably Furlong, Bealham, Ryan and McGrath, Healy and one of Cronin or Kilcoyne - with Buckley and Moore - thats nine props with healy the eldest at 29 - unheard of depth and very hard for anyone to break in

[Oldschool]

Flannery is Munster scrum coach

He's doing a great job.
Always reckoned he was/is a smart guy.
If you watch Scannell's throwing action it is very similar to Fla's.
Scannells throwing compares very favourably with any of his competition for an Ireland call up. And that's just one aspect of his overall game.
Cronin's injury may well be his opportunity.
Overall it's good that Munster are starting to produce a decent number of genuine challengers for the national squad

[Golf Man]

Flannery is very much into teh fine details - took a bit of time to pull it all together but the outcome has been fantastic this year. Think Rassie had him off in SA before he even arrived to develop his scrum coaching

[Ruckedtobits]

So an Irish Squad will be announced today or tomorrow. Might it look like this?:

Back Three: Kearney, Zebo, O'Halloran, Trimble, Earls, Sweetnam, Healy;
Centres: Henshaw, Ringrose, Scannell, Marshall;
Half-backs: Murray, Marmion, Sexton, Jackson;
Props: McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Bealham, Ryan:
Hookers: Best, Treacy, Scannell;
Second-row: Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Dillane;
Back-rows: Heaslip, Stander, O'Brien, Van der Flyer, O'Mahony, Conan.

That's 33 players and he could extend it with another half-back to cover J10 and possibly another scrum-half.

No real surprises. Both Scannells have earned it and Sweetnam just edges Adam Byrne and Adelochan. O'Loughlin might be invited to Camp but probably too early for serious consideration

[Oldschoolsocks]

I take no pleasure in saying that Tracey's throwing is too poor, bad enough with Rory best having the occasional yips, Tracy can almost be relied upon to give away possession in valuable areas of the field at critical times in the match.

This is not just judging on the last two matches btw.




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[CiaranIrl]

I reckon Adam Byrne might just about make the cut for the squad.

[neill_m]

I reckon Adam Byrne might just about make the cut for the squad.

Will Greenwood has him in the Lions team...

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[neiliog93]

So an Irish Squad will be announced today or tomorrow. Might it look like this?:

Back Three: Kearney, Zebo, O'Halloran, Trimble, Earls, Sweetnam, Healy;
Centres: Henshaw, Ringrose, Scannell, Marshall;
Half-backs: Murray, Marmion, Sexton, Jackson;
Props: McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Bealham, Ryan:
Hookers: Best, Treacy, Scannell;
Second-row: Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Dillane;
Back-rows: Heaslip, Stander, O'Brien, Van der Flyer, O'Mahony, Conan.

That's 33 players and he could extend it with another half-back to cover J10 and possibly another scrum-half.

No real surprises. Both Scannells have earned it and Sweetnam just edges Adam Byrne and Adelochan. O'Loughlin might be invited to Camp but probably too early for serious consideration

Adeleokun or even Bowe ahead of Healy. I actually think Tracy will make it because of a lack of alternatives (Strauss not long back and hasn't been the same since the heart issues). Other than that I think you're bang on. If Adam Byrne does make it, it'll be ahead of another young guy like Sweetnam, but I don't think it'll happen.

[CiaranIrl]

So an Irish Squad will be announced today or tomorrow. Might it look like this?:

Back Three: Kearney, Zebo, O'Halloran, Trimble, Earls, Sweetnam, Healy;
Centres: Henshaw, Ringrose, Scannell, Marshall;
Half-backs: Murray, Marmion, Sexton, Jackson;
Props: McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Bealham, Ryan:
Hookers: Best, Treacy, Scannell;
Second-row: Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Dillane;
Back-rows: Heaslip, Stander, O'Brien, Van der Flyer, O'Mahony, Conan.

That's 33 players and he could extend it with another half-back to cover J10 and possibly another scrum-half.

No real surprises. Both Scannells have earned it and Sweetnam just edges Adam Byrne and Adelochan. O'Loughlin might be invited to Camp but probably too early for serious consideration

Adeleokun or even Bowe ahead of Healy. I actually think Tracy will make it because of a lack of alternatives (Strauss not long back and hasn't been the same since the heart issues). Other than that I think you're bang on. If Adam Byrne does make it, it'll be ahead of another young guy like Sweetnam, but I don't think it'll happen.

Why not Adam Byrne ahead of Healy?

[goreyguy]

Adam Byrne is in new york on a holiday, so I think you can write him off. Same with O'Loughlin.

[Oldschool]

I take no pleasure in saying that Tracey's throwing is too poor, bad enough with Rory best having the occasional yips, Tracy can almost be relied upon to give away possession in valuable areas of the field at critical times in the match.

This is not just judging on the last two matches btw.




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Scannell had a few throwing problems at the weekend too.
Nerves maybe but he'd still be ahead of Tracey.
Conway has had a very good run of form and has surely moved up the rankings.
Adam Byrne must now be in the depth ratings and quite probably higher than 4th spot.
Luke McGrath has shown he has what it takes doesn't have the required consistency. Major work on concentration and focus required.

[Ruckedtobits]

So an Irish Squad will be announced today or tomorrow. Might it look like this?:

Back Three: Kearney, Zebo, O'Halloran, Trimble, Earls, Sweetnam, Healy;
Centres: Henshaw, Ringrose, Scannell, Marshall;
Half-backs: Murray, Marmion, Sexton, Jackson;
Props: McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Bealham, Ryan:
Hookers: Best, Treacy, Scannell;
Second-row: Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Dillane;
Back-rows: Heaslip, Stander, O'Brien, Van der Flyer, O'Mahony, Conan.

That's 33 players and he could extend it with another half-back to cover J10 and possibly another scrum-half.

No real surprises. Both Scannells have earned it and Sweetnam just edges Adam Byrne and Adelochan. O'Loughlin might be invited to Camp but probably too early for serious consideration

Joe has named a big Squad which limits Provincial preparation for those guys during 6N. It is believed that there are formal limits on Squad size during 6N period but Scotland named 37 and we have now named 40.

Some surprises, notably Bowe, Gilroy and Conway in the back three - two for lack of current form and one for how quickly good form has ensured elevation. On that basis, Adam Byrne is unlucky not to get call also. Back-row and front-row well filled but, again, surprised at omission of Cronin from LHP. JS obviously a fan of Billy Holland and he is a great contributor, if small for international 2nd row.

[Munsterboy]

So an Irish Squad will be announced today or tomorrow. Might it look like this?:

Back Three: Kearney, Zebo, O'Halloran, Trimble, Earls, Sweetnam, Healy;
Centres: Henshaw, Ringrose, Scannell, Marshall;
Half-backs: Murray, Marmion, Sexton, Jackson;
Props: McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Bealham, Ryan:
Hookers: Best, Treacy, Scannell;
Second-row: Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Dillane;
Back-rows: Heaslip, Stander, O'Brien, Van der Flyer, O'Mahony, Conan.

That's 33 players and he could extend it with another half-back to cover J10 and possibly another scrum-half.

No real surprises. Both Scannells have earned it and Sweetnam just edges Adam Byrne and Adelochan. O'Loughlin might be invited to Camp but probably too early for serious consideration

Joe has named a big Squad which limits Provincial preparation for those guys during 6N. It is believed that there are formal limits on Squad size during 6N period but Scotland named 37 and we have now named 40.

Some surprises, notably Bowe, Gilroy and Conway in the back three - two for lack of current form and one for how quickly good form has ensured elevation. On that basis, Adam Byrne is unlucky not to get call also. Back-row and front-row well filled but, again, surprised at omission of Cronin from LHP. JS obviously a fan of Billy Holland and he is a great contributor, if small for international 2nd row.

Conway was one of Munster's few form players last season too, he just went under the radar because Munster weren't winning. He's been going very well for a while now and has all the traits Joe likes - solid defender, always makes yards, excellent in the air etc. His rise has not been as sudden as people think.

Billy was a surprise to me but, thinking about it, if you look around for locks (other than Toner, Ryan, Henderson and Dillane) there aren't many IQ options who'll put in as solid a shift as he will at the moment. Says a lot about depth in that position that a guy as relatively small and old as him is getting the call. Fair play to him though, he's worked hard for it.

[Golf Man]

I don't see Bowe as a surprise - he looks off the pace but obviously has huge credit in the bank and I think centrally contracted which helps

Conway has always been good and has stepped up in form recently - he is a more complete player than some of the other options

I think Gilroy is a bit of a surprise - ahead of Adelokun, Healy, Sweetnam (albeit he hasn't played in a couple of weeks) O Loughlin and Byrne

Back 3 options of

Bowe, Trimble, Gilroy, Earls, Zebo, Conway, R Kearney, O Halloran

Holland doesn't surprise me at all - he has named 5 locks - if he went down to 4 he would be the guy to miss out but being honest there isn't really anyone else who deserves that 5th slot - Foley, M Kearney, Molony, Roux - thats the level of opposition he has

I don't think there will be any big surprises when he starts to whittle them down - he has a decision to make at 15, backrow, and bench

I think he will go back to tried and tested myself - Zebo deserves to start 15 but probably won't - likewise I could see Van de Flier missing the 23 altogether (with POM coming onto the bench)

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Bowe is a funny one. Thought he looked sharp against Clermont in the away game but seems to have gone backwards since and was even taken off in that game when he was going well.

Conway deserves to be in the squad but don't really want him in the match day squad, just think he's a bit lightweight and makes annoying mistakes. Had Sweetnam been fit I'd have had him in there and been tempted to start him. He's kicked on hugely since the Leinster game at the Aviva and proved himself on the big stage against the Maori too. I don't think Adam Byrne is ready for a 6N game yet but he's getting there and think being in the squad would have helped his development, hopefully he'll go to Japan. I'd say the same about ROL although I think he's better defensively, at least in terms of positioning.

[Golf Man]

Being honest I don't think any of the newer guys in the back 3 were going to be in a 23. Not sure about Conway making mistakes - he's pretty solid. Agree that Byrne probably has the highest ceiling of them all but arguably has the most work to do as well

At the minute - R Kearney, Trimble, Earls, Zebo would seem to be in pole position for the 23 - with O'Halloran next in line

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think Conway makes a lot of bad reads in defence (and yes he makes good ones, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make bad ones too) and his handling isn't great IMO. The penalty he gave away on Saturday was really annoying and I think he makes bad decisions like that quite regularly. Not having a go at him though, he's been impressive lately and think he'll keep improving with game time. He looks more comfortable now at European level than I can remember.