Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby FLIP » November 22nd, 2016, 9:57 pm

cormac wrote:No ban for Cane


So for a game full of deliberate high tackles and shoulder charges and neck rolls, the grand result is 1 weeks ban for 1 player. The fix is in.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby Fan with smartphone » November 23rd, 2016, 2:39 pm

This man should be coaching and not bloody writing, but he really is a great read.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/i ... -1.2878356

Last thing from me on all this: funny thing is for a "whinging Irishman" I don't have such a big issue with the tries. I'd have awarded the Barrett one and whilst I would have called the last one back as a forward pass (could be wrong, I'd like to see it again but then I guess we can't have poster's referrals), I'm pretty comfortable with the benefit of the doubt going to the attacking team. I guess what I'm trying to say blues fan, is that Wayne Barnes called it right in '07.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby Lar » November 23rd, 2016, 4:13 pm

blues_fan wrote:
Lar wrote:
Not sure why you keep bleating on about this BF - I think we have agreed that most people here accept that Peyper is not a bad man, just a bad ref. Virtually no one has questioned his integrity.


Nonsense. Re-read this thread and then explore other media. It is atrocious. Right up there with us vs Wayne Barnes in '07.

Lar wrote:Why are you challenging the element of your posts I agree with and not dealing with the bits I am critical of your team for? Your silence is beginning to speak for itself.


We don't agree. You seem to think this is 'understandable'. I don't. As for the other bits, I mentioned earlier that Eddie O'Sullivan's comments reflect mine. It's a tough, fast game. Accidents happen. I think that explains everything unless further information is revealed. I'm not particularly interested in this part of the argument, I've had it out on here before and it never goes anywhere. Plus the All Blacks can defend themselves adequately unlike refs. If respect for referee integrity is gone, then the game is gone.


I will reply to this post one last time but I am not going to debate this further with you because you are not reading what I am writing (and because I suspect it is boring for everyone else). I don't know if you are doing so deliberately or whether I have an inability to make my point properly.

But I did re-read this thread (before one of my more recent posts, not this one) and there is one at most two on here who questioned the ref's integrity. And much of that was in the immediate aftermath of the game when emotions may have been higher. Not excusing it per se but my only 'understandable' line was in connection with reminding you that we have been at the receiving end of another high tackle in another match that went unpunished with the same ref officiating. Many on here have questioned Peyper's decision making but not his integrity. Much like you criticised Alan Lewis. You agreed with me on this previously - you now seem to be rowing back from that.

I am still surprised at your refusal to debate the manner of the New Zealand team's approach last Saturday given it has attracted so much attention. You clearly class me and all with similar views (including Gordon D'Arcy's) as whinging Paddies and sore losers but that is precisely why I was trying to discuss the effect of this manner of play on the game in the long run and not just on one match. Others correctly point out that if we don't whinge nothing will ever be done about it.

Never mind. I do genuinely fear for the game in the long run if the issue of head injuries is not adequately addressed. And it isn't something that needs to come from World Rugby, although their intervention would be welcome, it needs to come from those coaching and playing the game.

Thanks.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 23rd, 2016, 4:26 pm

For the record, not for the first time A World Rugby Disciplinary Hearing has been more concerned with not undermined the authority of the match officials than in trying to follow their own edict and ensure the game is as safe as possible (in a contact sport).

The decisions and punishments are both derisory and bring their entire process into disrepute. When Samoa or Tonga or Georgia next get a player cited for high dangerous tackling, they should use these two incidents in mitigation of any decision against them.

Total cop out World Rugby. You have undermined your own stature in the game.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 23rd, 2016, 6:40 pm

Brilliant acticle and analysis of Ruck Performance by Murray Kinsella. This guy puts all other Rugby Jounos to shame with his output and quality.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-ruck-stats- ... 9-nov-2016 Article headline is Analysis: O'Briens ruck return....

Dev and SO'B were off the charts and JVdF right up there with less time on the park. Ringrose tops the contribution from Backs. This effective work rate demonstrates the value of Easterby, in conjunction with Joe and Feek. Scarlets were always top class at breakdown / Rucks when he was in charge. He is another jewel in the crown and hugely under-estimated.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby limecat » November 23rd, 2016, 6:50 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Brilliant acticle and analysis of Ruck Performance by Murray Kinsella. This guy puts all other Rugby Jounos to shame with his output and quality.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-ruck-stats- ... 9-nov-2016 Article headline is Analysis: O'Briens ruck return....

Dev and SO'B were off the charts and JVdF right up there with less time on the park. Ringrose tops the contribution from Backs. This effective work rate demonstrates the value of Easterby, in conjunction with Joe and Feek. Scarlets were always top class at breakdown / Rucks when he was in charge. He is another jewel in the crown and hugely under-estimated.


That link isn't working any more http://www.the42.ie/ireland-ruck-stats-new-zealand-analysis-3097439-Nov2016/
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby Dave Cahill » November 23rd, 2016, 7:08 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Brilliant acticle and analysis of Ruck Performance by Murray Kinsella. This guy puts all other Rugby Jounos to shame with his output and quality.


I think he is one of the better journalists, but he operates in a particular environment. He can write long articles with lots of animation and illustrations on some fairly esoteric subjects targeted at relatively dedicated and informed supporters and readers. Thats not possible in the print media, or on radio, for example, where you have limitations of format, space, reader/listenership etc. Thornley et al have perhaps a column or two where they have to explain a pretty complex sport to a readership that isn't necessarily that well informed about it whilst still catering to the 'cogniscenti'.

In terms of the 'new media' though, he's not only the best, he's actually the only one worth reading. Whether its a proper sports site like the42, clickbait like balls.ie or splitting the difference like sportsjoe, he is an oasis in a desert of shite.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 23rd, 2016, 9:14 pm

limecat wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:Brilliant acticle and analysis of Ruck Performance by Murray Kinsella. This guy puts all other Rugby Jounos to shame with his output and quality.

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-ruck-stats- ... 9-nov-2016 Article headline is Analysis: O'Briens ruck return....

Dev and SO'B were off the charts and JVdF right up there with less time on the park. Ringrose tops the contribution from Backs. This effective work rate demonstrates the value of Easterby, in conjunction with Joe and Feek. Scarlets were always top class at breakdown / Rucks when he was in charge. He is another jewel in the crown and hugely under-estimated.


That link isn't working any more http://www.the42.ie/ireland-ruck-stats-new-zealand-analysis-3097439-Nov2016/


Thanks Limecat. It didn't copy properly despite Edits. Much appreciated.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 24th, 2016, 1:16 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:Brilliant acticle and analysis of Ruck Performance by Murray Kinsella. This guy puts all other Rugby Jounos to shame with his output and quality.


I think he is one of the better journalists, but he operates in a particular environment. He can write long articles with lots of animation and illustrations on some fairly esoteric subjects targeted at relatively dedicated and informed supporters and readers. Thats not possible in the print media, or on radio, for example, where you have limitations of format, space, reader/listenership etc. Thornley et al have perhaps a column or two where they have to explain a pretty complex sport to a readership that isn't necessarily that well informed about it whilst still catering to the 'cogniscenti'.

In terms of the 'new media' though, he's not only the best, he's actually the only one worth reading. Whether its a proper sports site like the42, clickbait like balls.ie or splitting the difference like sportsjoe, he is an oasis in a desert of shite.


I agree with that but I also think he's better because he doesn't make mistakes, generally doesn't have a particular agenda to push in order to keep himself in the loop (although I think there was one example of that, can't remember it now) and he also seems to watch way more rugby than anyone else out there.

If any Irish station was to bring in a Rugby Tonight style programme then he'd be number one on the list of people who should front it.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby nc6000 » November 24th, 2016, 2:31 pm

This has to be a wind-up. :shock:

"In the latest twist following Ireland's heated and highly controversial meeting with the All Blacks, a New Zealand media outlet is claiming that World Rugby referees chief Alain Rolland spoke to Steve Hansen to apologise for Aaron Smith's yellow card."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/i ... 41563.html
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby simonokeeffe » November 24th, 2016, 2:52 pm

nc6000 wrote:This has to be a wind-up. :shock:

"In the latest twist following Ireland's heated and highly controversial meeting with the All Blacks, a New Zealand media outlet is claiming that World Rugby referees chief Alain Rolland spoke to Steve Hansen to apologise for Aaron Smith's yellow card."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/i ... 41563.html


thats complete BS

NZ rugby complaining about other countries being whingers is great considering they wanted the maul banned after they lost a game to a few of them
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby Dave Cahill » November 24th, 2016, 2:55 pm

Its all based on a report in stuff.co.nz, a publication than even balls.ie looks down on
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby TerenureJim » November 24th, 2016, 8:43 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Its all based on a report in stuff.co.nz, a publication than even balls.ie looks down on purple monkey dishwasher


But hey don't we live in a post truth world
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby dropkick » November 24th, 2016, 9:33 pm

I've not commented on the tackling of the ABs yet as I wanted to wait until the dust settles and look at it from as neutral point of view as possible.


I just had another look at the Cane tackle and I must say he 100% could have avoided it. He might not have ment to knock RH out but he moved his shoulder towards RH's head AFTER Henshaw spun around. At the minimum he should have gotten a ban for a wreckless tackle at least. Accidents happen but that should not give players a right to put other players health at risk.


The Dagg tackle on Stander seemed to be an accident. Fekitoa was a clear red.


I know some people will say its a mans game etc etc but using that logic you could break a few jaws "accidently" and if anyone said anything just tell them its not tiddlywinks.
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Re: Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

Postby simonokeeffe » November 27th, 2016, 9:48 pm

just watched highlights of the French NZ game, NZ took a man out in the air from the kick off again, penalised but no card (should have been)
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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