Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

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Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby backrower8 » November 15th, 2016, 9:20 pm

Folks let's campaign for Ireland to always line up in the 'Foley 8' stance when facing the Haka or any other prematch war dance.

Traditions have to start somewhere and this one started in the right place, for the right reasons and the right result. While honouring Axel is the starting point the No.8 resonates for lots of reasons.

It is a number at the heart of the team.

The 8 stance is also the symbol for infinity (when on its side) and infinite resolve, effort, teamwork all sit well with rugby.

It also looks good and works well with the dynamic of two units - forwards and backs united in their mission to resist and overcome the dancing opposition team.

Why not?

#keepthe8 #shouldertoshoulder
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 15th, 2016, 9:24 pm

#letsnot #itwasapowerfulgesturethatmeantalottoalotofpeoplebutletsnotcheapenitbyturningitintoagimmick
the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby Peg Leg » November 15th, 2016, 10:11 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:#letsnot #itwasapowerfulgesturethatmeantalottoalotofpeoplebutletsnotcheapenitbyturningitintoagimmick

#plusone
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby Dave Cahill » November 15th, 2016, 10:17 pm

Theres an element of mourning sickness beginning to creep in now
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby Xanthippe » November 15th, 2016, 10:21 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
Oldschoolsocks wrote:#letsnot #itwasapowerfulgesturethatmeantalottoalotofpeoplebutletsnotcheapenitbyturningitintoagimmick

#plusone

#plusonetoo
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby backrower8 » November 15th, 2016, 10:30 pm

Same old gatekeepers I see picking up where we left off.

As I said, while Axel was the spark this would move beyond that moment and him specifically . It has relevance beyond Axel and is a better response than lining up eunuch-like in a straight line to accept the wonderful tradition and intimidation on the other side.

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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby wixfjord » November 15th, 2016, 10:40 pm

What relevance has it beyond Foley?

It was a lovely gesture. Leave it at that.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 15th, 2016, 10:55 pm

Would we have enough players to line them up in the shape of "40-29"?

Thought it was fantastic but can't see the relevance going forward. The reasons you gave for it resonating don't resonate with me in the slightest. "It's a number at the heart of the team" really doesn't mean a thing and I would never have made the connection with infinity and think you're really reaching with your meaning for it.

Would be nice to be able to do something though, it was a very powerful image last week and whilst it had never occurred to me before that we could do something like that, maybe we should try and come up with something for every NZ game given that it went so well. Maybe even a "J" for Jordi this week. I know that his injury pales in comparison to the news about Axel and might cheapen that gesture but I'm just spitballing and can't think of anything else that would be easy to do and have any kind of meaning at all.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 15th, 2016, 11:01 pm

I would suggest this as an appropriate response to the haka https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qaURdYJxnNY


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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby fourthirtythree » November 15th, 2016, 11:13 pm

As time goes on the number 8 and the Irish team becomes irrevocably associated with the greatest Number 8 Ireland has had in the pro era.

Which isn't Foley.

So it doesn't make any sense.

It was great because of when it was, and we didn't do it for the Canada match for good reason. The king is dead, long live the king. In sport someone is always there to replace you, and we the supporters, are here to make sure the previous guys aren't forgotten.

It was special, and making a pantomime of it diminishes the respect and emotion of the thing.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby neiliog93 » November 15th, 2016, 11:31 pm

backrower8 wrote:Folks let's campaign for Ireland to always line up in the 'Foley 8' stance when facing the Haka or any other prematch war dance.

Traditions have to start somewhere and this one started in the right place, for the right reasons and the right result. While honouring Axel is the starting point the No.8 resonates for lots of reasons.

It is a number at the heart of the team.

The 8 stance is also the symbol for infinity (when on its side) and infinite resolve, effort, teamwork all sit well with rugby.

It also looks good and works well with the dynamic of two units - forwards and backs united in their mission to resist and overcome the dancing opposition team.

Why not?

#keepthe8 #shouldertoshoulder


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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby Oldschool » November 15th, 2016, 11:50 pm

A Step Too Far
As for 40-29 -> 4+0=4 & 2+9=11 -> 1+1=2 -> 4-2 = 2. Won't Woodie be Pleased.
Another step too far.
13 would be good tho'
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby CiaranIrl » November 15th, 2016, 11:50 pm

backrower8 wrote:Same old gatekeepers I see picking up where we left off.

As I said, while Axel was the spark this would move beyond that moment and him specifically . It has relevance beyond Axel and is a better response than lining up eunuch-like in a straight line to accept the wonderful tradition and intimidation on the other side.

#keepthe8


Man, I'm afraid that what you're suggesting cheapens a moving gesture. I appreciate and admire your passion and feeling for what happened, but it wouldn't work.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby paddyor » November 16th, 2016, 12:12 am

No
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby Fan with smartphone » November 16th, 2016, 1:18 am

My understanding is that what o'driscoll did pre-spear was an acceptance of the challenge and intended as respectful. I would have been in favour of adopting that as a gesture that the challenge is indeed accepted and also we are going to keep coming back at you no matter what happens. But the figure 8 they used was just brilliant for that occasion. What made it so good was that it was unique moment and you just couldn't repeat that backrower8.

I am certainly in favour of doing something with meaning as a response though. Even if it's just we will stand here as a group and face it as a group (as munster recently did), or if you spread out across the field (as the under 20s did), or advance on it as Willie Anderson did. You might just choose as a team to say let's not get too drawn into this - it's a rugby match and that's what we need to think about. A friend of mine working in the Aussie institute of sport told me that's how they recommended dealing with it (I guess that fits the campo narrative above) and they had looked at New Zealand and that they gave most of their penalties away in the early part of the game due to over-hyping. That was from the early 2000s mind you. I think the kiwis themselves use the haka better now than then.

I do like the O'Driscoll one personally, although maybe it's more appropriate for the lions to take that one on. Potentially I would just kneel and pray myself, but that wouldn't be for everyone. It wouldn't usually be for me, but it feels appropriate facing the all blacks!

A more sustainable tribute to Anthony Foley might be a trophy commissioned by the irfu for the winner of the match/series between the two teams, if the foley family and New Zealand were comfortable with that. Given his father's role in the munster victory and how the haka was so memorable the last day, he is going to be tied to this fixture forever more. I don't think there is a trophy at the moment. Well if there is one, there hasn't been much need for us to look about it this past hundred years. Until now. This weekend we play for the Raeburn shield for a start.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby backrower8 » November 16th, 2016, 8:24 am

It obviously doesn't fly for this forum but I posted it somewhere else and got 15 likes for it to date. Thanks for the feedback. It seems that people think something would be nice but that the Foleyassiciation is not to be repeated for people here. Any other suggestions or do we do what everyone else does as infinitum? As a player I would want something more myself.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby blockhead » November 16th, 2016, 9:01 am

Backrower.I'm sure you mean well but I think this would be a bad idea. It was a wonderfull one off gesture, in our first international game since Foley died. Lets just leave it at that. It actually grows in poignancy if its left there on the 5th of Nov 2016.
There was also a petition set up online to have the Heino renamed as the Anthony Foley Cup and a few other suggestions which will in time be viewed as a little bit cringey. I only know Foley through the prism of de telly, the same as the vast majority, however I would hazard a guess that this sort of thing would have him mortified.
Naming part of TP would be a fine gesture. An interprovincial cup (if there isn't already one) given to the province with the best record v the other provinces in a given pro12 regular season is also a good idea.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby Peg Leg » November 16th, 2016, 9:36 am

backrower8 wrote:It obviously doesn't fly for this forum but I posted it somewhere else and got 15 likes for it to date. Thanks for the feedback. It seems that people think something would be nice but that the Foleyassiciation is not to be repeated for people here. Any other suggestions or do we do what everyone else does as infinitum? As a player I would want something more myself.

It worked as a tribute and a timely gesture. The meaning of it would be lost and cheapen the gesture. Let it stand alone (as it were).
Agree that a response would be great, for the brief period before the irb bow to pressure and ban it. Can't think of a symbol that would maintain the level of intent or emotion required.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby offshorerules » November 16th, 2016, 9:49 am

Either way I'll be fascinated to see what response, if any, Ireland have to the haka this weekend.
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Re: Let's Make The Foley '8' Stance a Tradition

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 16th, 2016, 11:33 am

Fan with smartphone wrote:
A friend of mine working in the Aussie institute of sport told me that's how they recommended dealing with it (I guess that fits the campo narrative above) and they had looked at New Zealand and that they gave most of their penalties away in the early part of the game due to over-hyping. That was from the early 2000s mind you. I think the kiwis themselves use the haka better now than then.



I wonder how much it helps them now. Used to love it and it sounded great in Chicago but I definitely felt like it was more for show than anything else because of the version they used and how long it went on for. Might be wrong but just get the feeling that its meaning is diminishing.
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