Ireland v Australia

[Fan with smartphone]

Incredible way to stop Australia's grand slam. No Irish team ever before could've coped with all that. Now to go for a grand slam of our own.

[simonokeeffe]

12: medium term definite yes, short term Aki (re sign official yet?) And Scannell are uncapped, Marshall is Marshall and would worry me in bigger 6n games but thats a reflection on Henshaw being world class

3: Ross has been shelved (for 2019), Bealham cant scrum straight and is a major liability for better scrummaging packs. Moore is exiled (with Madigan) much as I love him. Can see moves to bring him back early. Ryan is uncapped but would prefer him to Bealham for Feb/March weather

9: no one proven or trusted bar Murray

Dont mean to be negative or detract from a superb win btw, IMO 12/15 positions we have great depth/squad/age profile

[cormac]

12: medium term definite yes, short term Aki (re sign official yet?) And Scannell are uncapped, Marshall is Marshall and would worry me in bigger 6n games but thats a reflection on Henshaw being world class

3: Ross has been shelved (for 2019), Bealham cant scrum straight and is a major liability for better scrummaging packs. Moore is exiled (with Madigan) much as I love him. Can see moves to bring him back early. Ryan is uncapped but would prefer him to Bealham for Feb/March weather

9: no one proven or trusted bar Murray

Dont mean to be negative or detract from a superb win btw, IMO 12/15 positions we have great depth/squad/age profile

John Ryan isn't uncapped

[Fan with smartphone]

12: medium term definite yes, short term Aki (re sign official yet?) And Scannell are uncapped, Marshall is Marshall and would worry me in bigger 6n games but thats a reflection on Henshaw being world class

3: Ross has been shelved (for 2019), Bealham cant scrum straight and is a major liability for better scrummaging packs. Moore is exiled (with Madigan) much as I love him. Can see moves to bring him back early. Ryan is uncapped but would prefer him to Bealham for Feb/March weather

9: no one proven or trusted bar Murray

Dont mean to be negative or detract from a superb win btw, IMO 12/15 positions we have great depth/squad/age profile

Bealham's scrummaging will continue to improve though. What age is he? 24? Plus he spent at least some of his pro career as a loosehead. By 2019 he could well be better again. The guys pushing behind him are liable to get more powerful too. Even if he didn't improve from where he is now, he would still suit the impact sub role reasonably nicely. He is mobile and is great at arriving to a ruck and passing, to keep attacking tempo up. Don't think Ah You or or Archer are going to cut it at international level without a big jump and it's still early to tell with Ryan, though the signs are good. How badly hurt are Ross and Moore?

9 is an issue, but there is time for someone to make a run and we have a reasonably level field to be number 2 to Murray. Tonight was a big step for Marmion. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the kid has a will to win/match smarts that just seems to put him ahead of players who I think should be better than him. Ballsy wee hoor. Of the others Cooney has played in a European cup final, I like blade personally (particularly off the bench) and McGrath is the one with arguably the highest ceiling. The Japan tour will be big for this position.

You are right to pour a little cold water on things though. A week of bad injuries can change everything. I would've considered second row a bit of a problem not so long ago, but am much less concerned now. Also hooker-I'm taking it our 2 first choice will go right through to 2019 - is that realistic?

[Peg Leg]

How did we win that?
must have given up 2 stone a man on average in the backs

Hugeness had it's day

[matt]

When you lose 2 players like Trimble & Payne & have to play 2 half back subs out of position you assume you will get punished but the fact we came back & won is a huge credit to all. Very enjoyable day.

[sunshiner1]

by Fan with smartphone

Bealham's scrummaging will continue to improve though. What age is he? 24? Plus he spent at least some of his pro career as a loosehead. By 2019 he could well be better again. The guys pushing behind him are liable to get more powerful too. Even if he didn't improve from where he is now, he would still suit the impact sub role reasonably nicely. He is mobile and is great at arriving to a ruck and passing, to keep attacking tempo up. Don't think Ah You or or Archer are going to cut it at international level without a big jump and it's still early to tell with Ryan, though the signs are good. How badly hurt are Ross and Moore?

I like Bealham and I think people are doing him a disservice to an extent. He played in every game last year for Connacht and most of them this year as well. He stood up to the AB's well and is a puppy in propping terms.

Also no one here has mentioned HerBt. He looked the part before the long injury lay-off so hopefully with time he will do so again.

9 is an issue, but there is time for someone to make a run and we have a reasonably level field to be number 2 to Murray. Tonight was a big step for Marmion. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the kid has a will to win/match smarts that just seems to put him ahead of players who I think should be better than him. Ballsy wee hoor. Of the others Cooney has played in a European cup final, I like blade personally (particularly off the bench) and McGrath is the one with arguably the highest ceiling. The Japan tour will be big for this position.

Murray is in a league of his own so don't think you can compare. Cooney is looking well after a long lay-off and Marmion and McGrath are not to be sniffed at. Blade for me is still to inconsistent to be considered international yet. We also have JGP on the way so we will be fine soon.

You are right to pour a little cold water on things though. A week of bad injuries can change everything. I would've considered second row a bit of a problem not so long ago, but am much less concerned now. Also hooker-I'm taking it our 2 first choice will go right through to 2019 - is that realistic?

If not Tom McCartney of Connacht will be IQ soon and JS is a big fan so I could see him coming into the squad. Strauss and Herring also have another gear in them if they can get a run of games together.

As for the game. I'm really surprised that we won it. No other coach probably would have picked so many of the same players as last week and no other coach's team could have won that game against so many positional changes. It shows the best and worst of JS's Ireland Team.

[johng]

Also no one here has mentioned HerBt..

It's not polite to mention a woman's BT

No other coach probably would have picked so many of the same players as last week.

Apart from every Ireland coach in History.....

[Fan with smartphone]

by Fan with smartphone

Bealham's scrummaging will continue to improve though. What age is he? 24? Plus he spent at least some of his pro career as a loosehead. By 2019 he could well be better again. The guys pushing behind him are liable to get more powerful too. Even if he didn't improve from where he is now, he would still suit the impact sub role reasonably nicely. He is mobile and is great at arriving to a ruck and passing, to keep attacking tempo up. Don't think Ah You or or Archer are going to cut it at international level without a big jump and it's still early to tell with Ryan, though the signs are good. How badly hurt are Ross and Moore?

I like Bealham and I think people are doing him a disservice to an extent. He played in every game last year for Connacht and most of them this year as well. He stood up to the AB's well and is a puppy in propping terms.

Also no one here has mentioned HerBt. He looked the part before the long injury lay-off so hopefully with time he will do so again.

9 is an issue, but there is time for someone to make a run and we have a reasonably level field to be number 2 to Murray. Tonight was a big step for Marmion. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the kid has a will to win/match smarts that just seems to put him ahead of players who I think should be better than him. Ballsy wee hoor. Of the others Cooney has played in a European cup final, I like blade personally (particularly off the bench) and McGrath is the one with arguably the highest ceiling. The Japan tour will be big for this position.

Murray is in a league of his own so don't think you can compare. Cooney is looking well after a long lay-off and Marmion and McGrath are not to be sniffed at. Blade for me is still to inconsistent to be considered international yet. We also have JGP on the way so we will be fine soon.

You are right to pour a little cold water on things though. A week of bad injuries can change everything. I would've considered second row a bit of a problem not so long ago, but am much less concerned now. Also hooker-I'm taking it our 2 first choice will go right through to 2019 - is that realistic?

If not Tom McCartney of Connacht will be IQ soon and JS is a big fan so I could see him coming into the squad. Strauss and Herring also have another gear in them if they can get a run of games together.

As for the game. I'm really surprised that we won it. No other coach probably would have picked so many of the same players as last week and no other coach's team could have won that game against so many positional changes. It shows the best and worst of JS's Ireland Team.

I think Bealham is absolute class, but I do think Simon is right to highlight that there are wrinkles he needs to iron out yet. As you say he is young to be the perfect tighthead, but then you look around the world and tighthead is becoming less of an old man position than it maybe used to be. He definitely suits impact sub for now, but starting the wrong game would be an ask just at the moment. Moore would be better at that role if Furlong were to pick up a knock, but I've heard little about his injury. Getting him back in the system is order of business number 1, given Ross' own injury. All being well, a Furlong-Bealham double act will do just fine for now and if both could up it again then all the better.

Yep 9 is an open race. I've wondered aloud before should we go Matt (Austin) Healy for the bench, because of just such an eventuality as last night, or even Madigan. It's worth considering, though both Healy and Madigan have issues. Maybe it's better to cover one position well, rather than 2 just ok. I know I'll get panned for that suggestion but are we really ever going to take Murray off in a big game unless he is injured? How often dors he get injured mid-game? How often do the rest of the players get injured? Plus I didn't say i'd do it, I just said consider!

Tracy looks like putting himself into the conversation for hooker over the next 2 seasons if he keeps going, but you are right about McCartney. McCartney is one tough hombre, it's just any player replacing Best won't be easy if he starts to wane. I'm not sure he will though, but I don't know if that is realistic for me to think that.

Also no one here has mentioned HerBt..

It's not polite to mention a woman's BT

No other coach probably would have picked so many of the same players as last week.

Apart from every Ireland coach in History.....

Lol johng. You are probably right of course, but a wise old sage said to me this morning (in his own inimitable way): "that joe f'in Schmidt is some boy. He won that f'in game despite him f'in self."

[Ruckedtobits]

Possibly the best 9 bench option is....Joey Carbery. When "recruited" by Blackrock College from Col. Trionoid (?) in Athy, one of the many rumours abounding was that he played 9 & 10 with equal facility. That was also current when he and Tomas Quinlan shared Irish U.20 World Cup duty when Ross Byrne pulled out at the 12th hour.

Given our need to give him game time to cover Jonno S in Leinster and with McGrath & JGP on the roster Joey won't play SH for Leinster but Joe might use him as cover in Ireland. He certainly wont replace Conor Murray on a tactical basis - he's become like Jamie, an automatic selection for entire 80 mins

[Fan with smartphone]

Possibly the best 9 bench option is....Joey Carbery. When "recruited" by Blackrock College from Col. Trionoid (?) in Athy, one of the many rumours abounding was that he played 9 & 10 with equal facility. That was also current when he and Tomas Quinlan shared Irish U.20 World Cup duty when Ross Byrne pulled out at the 12th hour.

Given our need to give him game time to cover Jonno S in Leinster and with McGrath & JGP on the roster Joey won't play SH for Leinster but Joe might use him as cover in Ireland. He certainly wont replace Conor Murray on a tactical basis - he's become like Jamie, an automatic selection for entire 80 mins

That's interesting, but as you say it's unlikely he will see much time at 9 with Leinster given McGrath and JGP.

I'm just having some fun with this in the afterglow of last night, but are there any provinces out there in need of someone like, let's say, madigan who could (maybe) play 9 and 10?

Maybe they'd be just after losing a top quality scrum half?

Maybe would be willing to experiment with that a little in order to gain a little leeway somewhere else?

Cough backrow cough.

Too fanciful?

Just saying I'd consider it. Not saying I'd do it.

When is his contract up?

I'm gonna get panned here.

[simonokeeffe]

@Cormac I may have forgotten about the Canada game

@FWS Bealham is mobile, good hands, good workrate, and young. To be analytical on his scrummaging at TH he definitely benefits from binding on a smaller hooker (than Cronin) for Connacht and his inward angle is less pronounced. He is being heavily groomed for 2019 so we can take 5 props with him as the versatile one. Same applies to general squads/knowing the systems/being in camp

Moore is only out 4-6 weeks iirc but is another injury for him. Afaik Herbst still has to re sign

[offshorerules]

I think it's worth pointing out that the sense of foreboding, we all must surely have felt when Australia got a scrum on 80 minutes only 3 points down having waltzed through our back previously, was wiped out by Ireland's scrum pushing them off their own ball. A scrum led by a front row of Healy, Cronin and Bealham. Worth remembering that.

[blockhead]

Apparently this is the first time since 2003 that a 6N side has beaten the big 3 SH sides in the same year. I assume that was the great English side of that time.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I just had a look at the teams we've put out for our landmark wins over the last few years, so the games that won the 6N in 2014 and 2015, the first away win in SA, and then the win against NZ and yesterday's game against Oz.

We made five changes between the French game in 2014 and Scotland win in 2015. Trimble, BOD, Darce, DK, and Henry replaced by Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Luke Fitz, and SOB.

Then there were 7 personnel changes against SA plus two positional (Payne to 15 for Rob and Henshaw to 13). So Rob, Luke Fitz, Sexton, Healy, POC, POM and SOB replaced by Marshall, Earls, Jackson, McGrath, Henderson, Stander, and Jordi.

Then a few changes for the NZ game then with Rob starting, Payne back to the centre and Henshaw moving inside. Sexton back for Jackson, Zebo in for Earls, and Furlong in for Ross and a similar team picked for yesterday. That only tells half the story though obviously. VDF on early in Chicago and Carberry playing the last quarter for Sexton. Then yesterday we started Ringrose out of position at 12 and had Jackson in for Sexton, and Earls (who had to move from the wing to 13 which created a new/strange combo) in for Zebo, not forgetting Marmion playing a half on the wing.

The point being that our biggest wins haven't really come from the same team, we've used a huge group of players and often they've been out of position but the team rarely suffers. I have no idea how Joe has managed this. Obviously there was a blip against Argentina but that was perfectly understandable and we still managed to rally in that game and nearly got in front at one stage despite having lost POC,POM, SOB, Sexton, and Payne the week before, and then Bowe early on.

This is a long winded post to say that we have great depth (only POC, Luke Fitz and probably Ross gone from previous seasons) and Joe has done an amazing job.

[Fan with smartphone]

Marty Moore starts for wasps today at home to sale. Apparently that injury falls into the looks worse than it is category then.

[Oldschool]

It's worth remembering that Murray was fairly average when first capped. Now he's top class.
At the moment SH and FB are probably on the top of JS' shopping list.
The provinces for various reasons haven't covered themselves in glory here
Pienaar was allowed to stay too long.
MOC literally stalled virtually all development.
Munster were messing around with coaches and delaying the inevitable - moving to playing the same style as the other provinces.
Connacht were coming from a long way back and deserve credit for being now in a position to be a feeder to the national team.
The fact that Marmion and T O'Halloran are in the frame is brilliant.
JS should be grooming both with every opportunity over the 6Ns and especially in Japan/US assuming Trump clears their visas.
A bit of speed on the wing would also be welcome.

[Gearzbox2]

I think it's worth pointing out that the sense of foreboding, we all must surely have felt when Australia got a scrum on 80 minutes only 3 points down having waltzed through our back previously, was wiped out by Ireland's scrum pushing them off their own ball. A scrum led by a front row of Healy, Cronin and Bealham. Worth remembering that.

Absolutely minced them, very pleasing to see especially with Bealham at TH and the threat the Aussies had in the back line
Cronin and Church looked pumped after it and just nodded their heads as if to say "there ye go joe"

[simonokeeffe]

It's worth remembering that Murray was fairly average when first capped. Now he's top class.
At the moment SH and FB are probably on the top of JS' shopping list.
The provinces for various reasons haven't covered themselves in glory here
Pienaar was allowed to stay too long.
MOC literally stalled virtually all development.
Munster were messing around with coaches and delaying the inevitable - moving to playing the same style as the other provinces.
Connacht were coming from a long way back and deserve credit for being now in a position to be a feeder to the national team.
The fact that Marmion and T O'Halloran are in the frame is brilliant.
JS should be grooming both with every opportunity over the 6Ns and especially in Japan/US assuming Trump clears their visas.
A bit of speed on the wing would also be welcome.

FB is ok with Payne, Zebo, TOH, and RK

[dropkick]

Its certainly been a big step forward for Irish rugby but I wouldn't be getting carried away.

We've a super pack but the attacking game needs a lot of work. The way Ireland play is very attritional and without much guile. You could say, sorting that out is the next step.

But overall things are looking good. Theres a nice conveyor belt of players there now and more seem to be coming through every year. I can see Ireland and the provinces continuing to strengthen.