Ireland v Australia

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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Laighin Break » November 28th, 2016, 3:53 pm

Would think he would be more susceptible to a concussion (although apparently that's now what happened) 7 days after receiving one?
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby All Blacks nil » November 28th, 2016, 5:23 pm

A few criticisms have been aimed at Conor Murray's kicking game. The stats below show how important his kicking ability is to Ireland's game plan and how much responsibility he took on over the Autumn Series

Murray does the bulk of the teams tactical kicking as obviously decreed by Joe.
In this Autumn series he kicked
14 times v NZ in Chicago compared to 10 by Sexton (6)and Carberry (4) combined
8 times v NZ in Dublin compared to 4 by Sexton (1) and Jackson (3) combined
12 times v Aus compared to 4 by Jackson. Carberry did not play outhalf.

34 kicks by Murray in total as compared to 18 by his various halfback partners,

When Sexton and Murray are on the pitch together, there tends to be a more even share of the kicking but when Sexton has been missing Murray tends to take on the lion's share of responsibility for the teams tactical kicking.
100% would indeed be perfect but Murray's kicking has been and still is one of Ireland's major weapons. He is forgiven a couple of kicks because he is instructed to kick so much but I dare say still returns a healthy percentage of accurate and effective kicks.
While Sexton is/was an obvious loss against NZ and Australia, Murray's loss in a serious test could be catastrophic for Ireland at the moment.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Oldschool » November 28th, 2016, 5:58 pm

All Blacks nil wrote:A few criticisms have been aimed at Conor Murray's kicking game. The stats below show how important his kicking ability is to Ireland's game plan and how much responsibility he took on over the Autumn Series

Murray does the bulk of the teams tactical kicking as obviously decreed by Joe.
In this Autumn series he kicked
14 times v NZ in Chicago compared to 10 by Sexton (6)and Carberry (4) combined
8 times v NZ in Dublin compared to 4 by Sexton (1) and Jackson (3) combined
12 times v Aus compared to 4 by Jackson. Carberry did not play outhalf.

34 kicks by Murray in total as compared to 18 by his various halfback partners,

When Sexton and Murray are on the pitch together, there tends to be a more even share of the kicking but when Sexton has been missing Murray tends to take on the lion's share of responsibility for the teams tactical kicking.
100% would indeed be perfect but Murray's kicking has been and still is one of Ireland's major weapons. He is forgiven a couple of kicks because he is instructed to kick so much but I dare say still returns a healthy percentage of accurate and effective kicks.
While Sexton is/was an obvious loss against NZ and Australia, Murray's loss in a serious test could be catastrophic for Ireland at the moment.

Murray has kicked very well tbh in the last year.
The only criticism I would have is the kicks just outside the opposition 22.
It's obviously a tactic because I think both JS and PJ have done something similar and all badly.
The rest of his game has been excellent.
Even if Murray got injured I've no doubt we'd manage but I think we'd all prefer not to find out.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Ibane » November 28th, 2016, 7:06 pm

Healy got there pretty quickly to knock the Pocock off his feet but did we get away with POM holding on in the run up to the winning try?

https://youtu.be/bEiSqRfa8ko?t=1h21m13s
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby CiaranIrl » November 28th, 2016, 7:10 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:Yeah, Kearney was, if anything, too fired up and aggressive. He was really playing well.

You could argue that Schmidt took a risk keeping him off despite passing the HIA as we could have done without Carberry at FB and Zebo was needed soon after.


They Ireland camp have apparently erred on the side of caution a huge amount with regards the HIAs this November. Stander passed his 100% and had no symptoms, but they still wouldn't let him back on vs the All Blacks as I understand it.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby CiaranIrl » November 28th, 2016, 7:15 pm

All Blacks nil wrote:A few criticisms have been aimed at Conor Murray's kicking game. The stats below show how important his kicking ability is to Ireland's game plan and how much responsibility he took on over the Autumn Series

Murray does the bulk of the teams tactical kicking as obviously decreed by Joe.
In this Autumn series he kicked
14 times v NZ in Chicago compared to 10 by Sexton (6)and Carberry (4) combined
8 times v NZ in Dublin compared to 4 by Sexton (1) and Jackson (3) combined
12 times v Aus compared to 4 by Jackson. Carberry did not play outhalf.

34 kicks by Murray in total as compared to 18 by his various halfback partners,

When Sexton and Murray are on the pitch together, there tends to be a more even share of the kicking but when Sexton has been missing Murray tends to take on the lion's share of responsibility for the teams tactical kicking.
100% would indeed be perfect but Murray's kicking has been and still is one of Ireland's major weapons. He is forgiven a couple of kicks because he is instructed to kick so much but I dare say still returns a healthy percentage of accurate and effective kicks.
While Sexton is/was an obvious loss against NZ and Australia, Murray's loss in a serious test could be catastrophic for Ireland at the moment.


Who criticised Murray? I've seen nothing but praise for him the last few weeks. 'A league of his own', 'top class', 'so far in front' are the only comments in this thread about him. You would need to be hyper sensitive to have read this forum lately and decided he was being criticised.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby simonokeeffe » November 28th, 2016, 9:06 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:A few criticisms have been aimed at Conor Murray's kicking game. The stats below show how important his kicking ability is to Ireland's game plan and how much responsibility he took on over the Autumn Series

Murray does the bulk of the teams tactical kicking as obviously decreed by Joe.
In this Autumn series he kicked
14 times v NZ in Chicago compared to 10 by Sexton (6)and Carberry (4) combined
8 times v NZ in Dublin compared to 4 by Sexton (1) and Jackson (3) combined
12 times v Aus compared to 4 by Jackson. Carberry did not play outhalf.

34 kicks by Murray in total as compared to 18 by his various halfback partners,

When Sexton and Murray are on the pitch together, there tends to be a more even share of the kicking but when Sexton has been missing Murray tends to take on the lion's share of responsibility for the teams tactical kicking.
100% would indeed be perfect but Murray's kicking has been and still is one of Ireland's major weapons. He is forgiven a couple of kicks because he is instructed to kick so much but I dare say still returns a healthy percentage of accurate and effective kicks.
While Sexton is/was an obvious loss against NZ and Australia, Murray's loss in a serious test could be catastrophic for Ireland at the moment.


Who criticised Murray? I've seen nothing but praise for him the last few weeks. 'A league of his own', 'top class', 'so far in front' are the only comments in this thread about him. You would need to be hyper sensitive to have read this forum lately and decided he was being criticised.


One person did in the Munster thread, even if he did have a couple of bad kicks he still has a great kicking game and very few people on here or elsewhere would disagree witht hat

Starting Payne proved to be a mistake, wouldnt say same about RK
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Logorrhea » November 28th, 2016, 10:26 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:One person did in the Munster thread, even if he did have a couple of bad kicks he still has a great kicking game and very few people on here or elsewhere would disagree witht hat

One person pointed out that too high a percentage of his kicks go astray. It wasn't an attack on the player. You'd be nuts to think of it as anything other than a "work-on" (as they say).
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby TerenureJim » November 29th, 2016, 10:14 am

simonokeeffe wrote:Ludik has more chance of playing bass for The Pretenders

That level of versatility (but not quality) only becomes useful when the rest of the backline is incredibly rigid which is not an issue right now

Henshaw's injury blunted our attack as he is our one hard yards midfield carrier. Not even having the threat of that nor pace from Payne (who had a poor series) makes it much easier for the defence


Very harsh on Payne who's role in the "D" is massive and generally faultless plus half the series he was effectively baby sitting so likely had his game tempered by that.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby simonokeeffe » November 29th, 2016, 10:27 am

Logorrhea wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:One person did in the Munster thread, even if he did have a couple of bad kicks he still has a great kicking game and very few people on here or elsewhere would disagree witht hat

One person pointed out that too high a percentage of his kicks go astray. It wasn't an attack on the player. You'd be nuts to think of it as anything other than a "work-on" (as they say).


that was me having a go at it being cc'd here rather than the original point

TerenureJim wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Ludik has more chance of playing bass for The Pretenders

That level of versatility (but not quality) only becomes useful when the rest of the backline is incredibly rigid which is not an issue right now

Henshaw's injury blunted our attack as he is our one hard yards midfield carrier. Not even having the threat of that nor pace from Payne (who had a poor series) makes it much easier for the defence


Very harsh on Payne who's role in the "D" is massive and generally faultless plus half the series he was effectively baby sitting so likely had his game tempered by that.


Admittedly its 2 of the 3 best attacking backlines in the world inc NZ twice but I think his pace got shown up in the fastest games (defence) and without a large 12 to fix defences for him he struggled in attack. It is harsh as its the highest standard of games but thats what we're dealing with and will have to deal with in say RWC knockouts
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Dave Cahill » November 29th, 2016, 10:29 am

Yeah, its a strange thing to say alright, the way Payne leads the defense makes him so important and he managed it so well. He got injured around the half hour mark on Saturday and it took Ireland another half hour to come to terms with it. You could see how vital he is by the near panic on the touchline just before the second half kicked off as Ireland delayed bringing on Marmion almost until the half had started
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby simonokeeffe » November 29th, 2016, 12:17 pm

That could also be chalked down to general massive disruption
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Dave Cahill » November 29th, 2016, 12:32 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:That could also be chalked down to general massive disruption



It was massive due to his absence. The Joe Schmidt way minimises disruption as every player knows what they have to do in any circumstance they find themselves in. Its why Marmion was able to do so well on the wing, for example, because he knows 'the process'.

The guy who manages that process for the backs though, is Payne. So take him out or limit his ability to run the defensive line, and thats where the disruption becomes massive.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby simonokeeffe » November 29th, 2016, 1:37 pm

13 is nearly always a defensive leader and thats true for Payne. But we'd also already brought on 22 and 23. All the players know the system but Marmion said himself hes never run there in training

I never criticised his defence anyways, said his lack of pace/threat got shown up in our attack and it made it easier for opposition defences especially without a battering ram option inside him
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby FLIP » November 29th, 2016, 5:02 pm

WR deem Mumms spear tackle on Furlong to not have been a red card offence.

Will Irish players ever get the legal protection they deserve?
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 29th, 2016, 5:21 pm

When you contrast this to the one week ban SOB got on the World Cup it's just really really bad, it just seems that the IRFU are being very quiet about this to our detriment, imagine Cheika, Eddie Jones or arsehole Fatland accepting this without throwing their toys out of the buggy, and you know what the stink they created would bear fruit in decisions going their way - witness the kid gloves wales have been treated with since Warburton was sent off in 2011


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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Laighin Break » November 30th, 2016, 9:07 am

FLIP wrote:WR deem Mumms spear tackle on Furlong to not have been a red card offence.

Will Irish players ever get the legal protection they deserve?


We'll be accused of whinging if we so much as whisper that we think he should have received a ban.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby blockhead » November 30th, 2016, 9:20 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwD7CyD5fhM

Southern perspective on the last weekends games.
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby erskinechilders » November 30th, 2016, 1:04 pm

Ibane wrote:Healy got there pretty quickly to knock the Pocock off his feet but did we get away with POM holding on in the run up to the winning try?

https://youtu.be/bEiSqRfa8ko?t=1h21m13s


Not at all, thats one of the best clean outs you'll ever see. Similar to O'Brien 2 years ago v France. He doesn't survive the clean out and is off his feet after Healy. There's only a handful of players in the world capable of cleaning Pocock off that ball, especially considering the extra second he was to plant himself. Game changing clear out!
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Re: Ireland v Australia

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 30th, 2016, 4:47 pm

blockhead wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwD7CyD5fhM

Southern perspective on the last weekends games.

That's a good show - at least they're consistent in their opinion on decoy runners, which I wholeheartedly agree with.


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