The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

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The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby limecat » November 30th, 2016, 12:23 pm

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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Twist » November 30th, 2016, 12:28 pm

Good! Surprised they left if so late to decide though


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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby simonokeeffe » November 30th, 2016, 12:34 pm

Glad to hear it

Although 3 bonus points for the slam seems like an odd number
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby blockhead » November 30th, 2016, 12:44 pm

You can finish 2nd and have 22 points so the extra 3 for the slam takes you to a minimum of 23 and therefore the campionship.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Flash Gordon » November 30th, 2016, 12:48 pm

blockhead wrote:You can finish 2nd and have 22 points so the extra 3 for the slam takes you to a minimum of 23 and therefore the campionship.


That's exactly it. You don't want a scenario that a team has a Grand Slam and loses the Championship. Very positive development but the one thing on my mind is Italy - if you get them early they're a very different proposition to if you get them in the last game having lost 3 or 4.....it also further reinforces the home and away advantage which in a tournament that rotates home and away probably makes a difference.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 30th, 2016, 12:52 pm

Thought Feehan was massively against this? Wonder what changed?
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 30th, 2016, 12:55 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
Very positive development but the one thing on my mind is Italy - if you get them early they're a very different proposition to if you get them in the last game having lost 3 or 4


Similarly, they also beat South Africa last week and then lost to Tonga!
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby simonokeeffe » November 30th, 2016, 1:12 pm

blockhead wrote:You can finish 2nd and have 22 points so the extra 3 for the slam takes you to a minimum of 23 and therefore the campionship.


I know the purpose, 5 or 6 just had more pizzazz

Seen a few arguments against the bp based on weather and or having Italy home or away but same factors apply to points difference as it is
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Flash Gordon » November 30th, 2016, 1:23 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:
Very positive development but the one thing on my mind is Italy - if you get them early they're a very different proposition to if you get them in the last game having lost 3 or 4


Similarly, they also beat South Africa last week and then lost to Tonga!


Yep, them (and their clubs) should have "Can we be arsed today?" written below the crest!
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 30th, 2016, 8:43 pm

This is a development which has been awaited for a few years past. However.......

The advantage of playing at home in the ultra-competitive 6N is such that, although the scoring system is being trialled for two years, it will almost certainly create significant controversy. The fact is that whether the Five or Six Nations, there have been many more instances of ties on points than Grand Slam winners. In recent years, the determination of winners by Points Difference has designated winners where previously the Championship was shared.

With Prize Money and Team Sponsor bonuses at issue, there is increasing pressure to determine out and out winners. The imbalance of home and away fixtures means that inevitably there must be a rota of fixtures which alters year by year. No longer should Ireland automatically have England and France, either home or away, on alternate years and equally so for the other Nations.

Experimenting with different points allocation three years ago, I came to the conclusion that based on a 4 point win, (and a bonus point structure as now introduced) there should also be two bonus points for two successive away wins in a season.

However...........we shall see.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby artaneboy » November 30th, 2016, 9:23 pm


Now that Stephen Jones- the hack not the ex-player, has declared his opposition to the changes, we can all embrace the changes as being reasonable and overdue.


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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Flash Gordon » November 30th, 2016, 9:51 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:This is a development which has been awaited for a few years past. However.......

The advantage of playing at home in the ultra-competitive 6N is such that, although the scoring system is being trialled for two years, it will almost certainly create significant controversy. The fact is that whether the Five or Six Nations, there have been many more instances of ties on points than Grand Slam winners. In recent years, the determination of winners by Points Difference has designated winners where previously the Championship was shared.

With Prize Money and Team Sponsor bonuses at issue, there is increasing pressure to determine out and out winners. The imbalance of home and away fixtures means that inevitably there must be a rota of fixtures which alters year by year. No longer should Ireland automatically have England and France, either home or away, on alternate years and equally so for the other Nations.

Experimenting with different points allocation three years ago, I came to the conclusion that based on a 4 point win, (and a bonus point structure as now introduced) there should also be two bonus points for two successive away wins in a season.

However...........we shall see.


Yep, the only way to eliminate that advantage is to have home and away fixtures.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby simonokeeffe » November 30th, 2016, 10:23 pm

a positive is in such a tight tournament denying the opposition (losing) bonus points becomes really important too
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Oldschool » December 1st, 2016, 12:57 am

The one downside to all of this is that these change willl increase the pressure to improve defence and could make the game more dangerous for the players.
It will put even more pressure on our already struggling match officials.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Dave Cahill » December 1st, 2016, 9:10 am

As I understand it, the retro-active addition of bonus points doesn't change any of the tournament outcomes this decade. This being correct, what is the point?
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby simonokeeffe » December 1st, 2016, 9:37 am

Dave Cahill wrote:As I understand it, the retro-active addition of bonus points doesn't change any of the tournament outcomes this decade. This being correct, what is the point?


optics?
more tries?
marketing gimmick?
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Dave Cahill » December 1st, 2016, 10:24 am

simonokeeffe wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:As I understand it, the retro-active addition of bonus points doesn't change any of the tournament outcomes this decade. This being correct, what is the point?


optics?
more tries?
marketing gimmick?


I'd say you're on the money with your first and last points
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby johng » December 1st, 2016, 10:40 am

wrestling the tournament out of the dark ages and hidebound tradition.... Just to prove that all change is not necessarily bad.

In advance of moving the tournament by a few weeks as part of a global season.

So. To soften us up a bit in summary.
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Dave Cahill » December 1st, 2016, 10:46 am

johng wrote:wrestling the tournament out of the dark ages and hidebound tradition.... Just to prove that all change is not necessarily bad.



Any change purely for the sake of change, without any other benefit, is bad though.

Once the grand slam bonus points are there its fine by me, but I just don't see the point.

How does this move the tournament out of the dark ages and hidebound tradition?
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Re: The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

Postby Peg Leg » December 1st, 2016, 10:59 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
johng wrote:wrestling the tournament out of the dark ages and hidebound tradition.... Just to prove that all change is not necessarily bad.



Any change purely for the sake of change, without any other benefit, is bad though.

Once the grand slam bonus points are there its fine by me, but I just don't see the point.

How does this move the tournament out of the dark ages and hidebound tradition?

I like things standardised which means I like it but dislike the 3pt GS allowance.
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