The Six Nations, now with added bonus points!

[Dave Cahill]

I would have liked to see a version of le systeme francais.

I think we should have it in the Pro12 too

[johng]

How does this move the tournament out of the dark ages and hidebound tradition?

By changing it to a modern points scoring system like every other tournament in the world. And demonstrating that change is possible

(cue Dave finding some obscure tournament that doesn't )

[Dave Cahill]

How does this move the tournament out of the dark ages and hidebound tradition?

By changing it to a modern points scoring system like every other tournament in the world. And demonstrating that change is possible

(cue Dave finding some obscure tournament that doesn't )

So in order to make it a less hidebound and traditional tournament we're making it like every other, less successful, tournament.

Okay.


This is a perfect example of what Jay and Lynn called the Politicians Syllogism -

"We must do something. This is something. Therefore we must do this"

Or in other words

"All dogs have four legs. A cat has four legs. All dogs are cats"

[johng]

What? No tournament? Nowhere in the world? A c'maaan. Surely you can find one.

[Grumpy Old Man]

What? No tournament? Nowhere in the world? A c'maaan. Surely you can find one.

I give you the daddy of them all - the Leinster Schools Senior Cup. I know its knockout, but it is most definitely a tournament.

[simonokeeffe]

I would have liked to see a version of le systeme francais.

I think we should have it in the Pro12 too

Super rugby have moved to it too havent they?

Cant say Im a fan, removes option of tbp in draws or defeats

[Laighin Break]

I would have liked to see a version of le systeme francais.

I think we should have it in the Pro12 too

A losing team can't get a try bonus point in the french system, can they?

[erskinechilders]

They can if they're within 5 points

[Dave Cahill]

Thats only th LBP, losing teams cannot get a try bonus point - unless they've changed it again after they went from 7 to 5?

[CiaranIrl]

As I understand it, the retro-active addition of bonus points doesn't change any of the tournament outcomes this decade. This being correct, what is the point?

Ireland would have won instead of France in 2007, and England would have won in 2013 & 2002.

I'm not a huge fan of this change to be honest. It is without doubt the best tournament in the world (IMHO), so I don't get that they're fixing here. If they think they need to attract people with more tries, can they point out how the low attendance figures back that up? The problem of the home / away thing is well documented, but another issue is the quality of the stadia. It's easier to score tries in places like the Millenium Stadium where the wind doesn't swirl about.

[paddyor]

someone did the last 10 years

[CiaranIrl]

Just thinking about 2007 makes me shiver. That day was painful.

[FLIP]

I wonder how BPs would have changed the dynamic in the last games of 2015?

Without BPs Wales, England and Ireland all went into the last round of matches with a chance of winning. Would we still have seen that day of entertainment with BPs?

[Lar]

Regardless of what has happened in the past this has to be viewed in a positive light. The past is what it was and under that system it produced some great games and in the case of 2015 an amazing last day.

But any system that rewards attack more by allowing try bonus points or losing bonus points has to be good in my mind. The Heineken Cup and EPRC have produced some amazing games and in my view more frequently than the 6N because of the BP system.

It is somewhat artificial to award a grand slam side additional points but I don't mind it. If someone does the GS they were clear and undoubted winners of the 6N and methods of separating tied nations just don't arise. But in any other scenario it makes sense to have something more sophisticated than points difference separating sides.

And to those who say it favours sides with three home games - well it does - but probably no more so than the points difference method did. Since Italy joined it has ever been thus.

[cormac]

As I understand it, the retro-active addition of bonus points doesn't change any of the tournament outcomes this decade. This being correct, what is the point?

Ireland would have won instead of France in 2007, and England would have won in 2013 & 2002.

I'm not a huge fan of this change to be honest. It is without doubt the best tournament in the world (IMHO), so I don't get that they're fixing here. If they think they need to attract people with more tries, can they point out how the low attendance figures back that up? The problem of the home / away thing is well documented, but another issue is the quality of the stadia. It's easier to score tries in places like the Millenium Stadium where the wind doesn't swirl about.

France won the grand slam in 2002 so with this new system (3pts for wining the GS) would have still won the 6N that season.

[jezzer]

If they add BPs they really need to look at rotating the schedule so each team doesn't get the same countries home and away.

[simonokeeffe]

If they add BPs they really need to look at rotating the schedule so each team doesn't get the same countries home and away.

time was the fixtures were in the same order every year...

I think even regardless of bonus points that should be changed

[jezzer]

To me, the schedule is the glaring anomaly in the 6n, not the points system. Whether it's done by a simple algorithm or a draw or whether, the current scheduling is prehistoric and unfair.

[jimbobjoe]

To me, the schedule is the glaring anomaly in the 6n, not the points system. Whether it's done by a simple algorithm or a draw or whether, the current scheduling is prehistoric and unfair.

Yep. It doesn't make sense at all. They probably need to change the schedule every two years to level it up and offer a bit more variety. As to how they do this would be tricky - If it's random you could get a team that are favourites getting the three hardest oppo at home and two relatively easy away games; if it's picked by committee there can be accusations of favouratism/bias.

Unfortunately I reckon they'll leave it as is until two or more unions raise issue with it.

[jezzer]

To me, the schedule is the glaring anomaly in the 6n, not the points system. Whether it's done by a simple algorithm or a draw or whether, the current scheduling is prehistoric and unfair.

Yep. It doesn't make sense at all. They probably need to change the schedule every two years to level it up and offer a bit more variety. As to how they do this would be tricky - If it's random you could get a team that are favourites getting the three hardest oppo at home and two relatively easy away games; if it's picked by committee there can be accusations of favouratism/bias.

Unfortunately I reckon they'll leave it as is until two or more unions raise issue with it.

It can just be on a rotation basis whereby after x years the various combinations have been worked through. There could be a version using seeding, but I think most would be against that.