Ireland Under 20 2017

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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby IanD » June 4th, 2017, 11:44 am

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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby leinsterforever » June 4th, 2017, 6:46 pm

They seem to be being asked to play a very limited attacking style by Malone. It would be interesting to see what David Knox would have them doing
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Ruckedtobits » June 4th, 2017, 11:33 pm

leinsterforever wrote:They seem to be being asked to play a very limited attacking style by Malone. It would be interesting to see what David Knox would have them doing


At this point who gives a continental what David Knox thinks or ever thought. Its only about who wins. Ask Clermont one of the best attacking teams in world rugby for a decade, who finally won tonight because of their defence.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Flash Gordon » June 6th, 2017, 11:30 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:They seem to be being asked to play a very limited attacking style by Malone. It would be interesting to see what David Knox would have them doing


At this point who gives a continental what David Knox thinks or ever thought. Its only about who wins. Ask Clermont one of the best attacking teams in world rugby for a decade, who finally won tonight because of their defence.


Wouldn't agree with that from an U-20's perspective. This is a development team and we should be developing our players to play to a plan. The U-20's should play in the same style as Joe's Ireland. With regard to the attack, Jordan Larmour got us out of a jail a few times in the 6 Nations. think his absence is a big factor.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Dave Cahill » June 6th, 2017, 12:21 pm

They are playing the same style as Joes Ireland, they've lost their first two games of the tournament.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby mildlyinterested » June 6th, 2017, 3:38 pm

How'd the leinster lads go? haven't seen the game.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby dropkick » June 6th, 2017, 6:57 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:How'd the leinster lads go? haven't seen the game.



Set pieces have been solid. Connolly and Kelleher played well. Dowling been good in the line out especially stealing opposition throws. Duggan looked solid in his game.


Boyle has been quiet. Doris only played one game but didn't look fit. Dean hasn't been great. He plays too deep and Curtis looked more threatening when coming off the bench for a few min.


The centers have been OK. Mullen is after making a few mistakes. Kelly has played well but gotten little chance with ball in hand.


Overall the players have not been too bad individually. As a team it's been very poor. They just kick the ball away and it ends up most of the time with conceding a line break. As well as being disorganised I'd say alot of the players might not be fit enough. The attack is blunt and the breakdown isn't great either.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby neiliog93 » June 7th, 2017, 9:40 am

Both of the second rows have looked very underpowered in the loose, despite the Wycherley hype. Dowling and Wycherley have consistently lost metres when carrying.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby mildlyinterested » June 7th, 2017, 9:54 am

neiliog93 wrote:Both of the second rows have looked very underpowered in the loose, despite the Wycherley hype. Dowling and Wycherley have consistently lost metres when carrying.


well they are both undersized even at u20 level.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby dropkick » June 7th, 2017, 10:59 am

neiliog93 wrote:Both of the second rows have looked very underpowered in the loose, despite the Wycherley hype. Dowling and Wycherley have consistently lost metres when carrying.



I thought Wycherley played well. Made some big carriers and if anything has been the hardest working forward.


Many of the carries have not made much ground but that's as much down to the tactics than anything else. If you're going to play one out rugby and run into a big pack you're not going to make too many meters. It's one dimensional rugby that's easy to defend as witnessed in the Munster Scarlets game.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby mildlyinterested » June 7th, 2017, 12:54 pm

So they've decided not to even try and compete against NZ.
Suppose they priority now is to come 9th, if possible.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Ruckedtobits » June 7th, 2017, 3:19 pm

Ten Munster in match day Squad vs eight Leinster. Some time since we had that balance.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby mildlyinterested » June 7th, 2017, 3:21 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Ten Munster in match day Squad vs eight Leinster. Some time since we had that balance.



well to be fair, this is clearly the 2nd choice lineup(at best)
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby dropkick » June 7th, 2017, 5:00 pm

At least all the U19s will be getting some experience ahead of next season.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby neill_m » June 8th, 2017, 9:58 pm

Next game v Samoa on Tue at 10am Irish Time.

A loss would seem them drop into the relegation playoff probably v Georgia.

A win would see them play off v probably Argentina for 9th spot.


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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby dropkick » June 9th, 2017, 4:26 pm

Leaving aside the results and leaving aside NZ, the most concerning thing is seeing how Italy and Scotland are playing a far better brand of rugby than Ireland. What the coaches were doing is anyones guess. Defence is the worst in the tournament and they've played the most limited attacking game in the tournament.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 9th, 2017, 4:58 pm

I've only seen the Ireland games but yeah the attack has been dreadful. When we had all that early pressure against NZ we just kept picking and going and got absolutely destroyed. At times our backs were just standing watching and clearly knew they were never going to get the ball but the forwards were just getting picked up and thrown backwards.

The NZ front row in particular was enormous, how we thought we could take them on physically is beyond me. It was such good weather as well, not like we couldn't move the ball.

Thought Wycherley and Doris were the only ones who looked physically capable of playing NZ when they came on. I know we were down to pretty much a third string side but they were still sent out to play dreadful rugby.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Ruckedtobits » June 9th, 2017, 5:21 pm

Thought Coombs also picking up the challenge.

In relation to the coaching of this side, I've had reservations for a long time about the concept of picking Provincial Academy Managers for this gig. Essentially they get from mid-January with a Squad of about 40 players, almost uniquely dedicated to two competitions - 6N and JWC.

Since Ruddock left about three years ago, amid some allegations of clashing priorities and L'downe player bias, there has been little evidence of coaching progression until team gets to JWC, except for last year, which was Carolin's last year before getting Connacht Asst Coach gig.

No actual playing style or progression that I can discern this year, although they lost a lot of top players before Tournament.

If the Coaching idea is Nucifora's. as rumoured, it's a bad idea. If it's not his idea, it's still a rubbish strategy and the Coaching progression should appoint a duo to Coach Irish Schools, Irish 19s and Irish 20's in successive years. That's a logocal progression of 6 native Coaches each year with capacity for oversight and work with Coaches at National and Provincial level throughout this apprenticship.

Coaching at top level takes time, learning and experience. It is intrinsically different from the job of Academy management which is a combination of HR and Project Management.

IRFU should take on this challenge seriously and get it right. This year they didn't and the U.20's is the proof.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby neiliog93 » June 9th, 2017, 6:02 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Thought Coombs also picking up the challenge.

In relation to the coaching of this side, I've had reservations for a long time about the concept of picking Provincial Academy Managers for this gig. Essentially they get from mid-January with a Squad of about 40 players, almost uniquely dedicated to two competitions - 6N and JWC.

Since Ruddock left about three years ago, amid some allegations of clashing priorities and L'downe player bias, there has been little evidence of coaching progression until team gets to JWC, except for last year, which was Carolin's last year before getting Connacht Asst Coach gig.

No actual playing style or progression that I can discern this year, although they lost a lot of top players before Tournament.

If the Coaching idea is Nucifora's. as rumoured, it's a bad idea. If it's not his idea, it's still a rubbish strategy and the Coaching progression should appoint a duo to Coach Irish Schools, Irish 19s and Irish 20's in successive years. That's a logocal progression of 6 native Coaches each year with capacity for oversight and work with Coaches at National and Provincial level throughout this apprenticship.

Coaching at top level takes time, learning and experience. It is intrinsically different from the job of Academy management which is a combination of HR and Project Management.

IRFU should take on this challenge seriously and get it right. This year they didn't and the U.20's is the proof.


Ireland u-18 schools and u-19s have few fixtures or training periods together, potentially the u-20 coaches could do all 3 in a given year. Or at least, the u-20 coaches could have significant impact when the schools and u-19 squads meet, so that when they get to u-20 level they're more ready to follow the gameplan.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby sunshiner1 » June 10th, 2017, 1:37 am

by Ruckedtobits » June 9th, 2017, 5:21 pm

Since Ruddock left about three years ago, amid some allegations of clashing priorities and L'downe player bias, there has been little evidence of coaching progression until team gets to JWC, except for last year, which was Carolin's last year before getting Connacht Asst Coach gig.


Carolan approached it with a different philosophy than Ruddock. Ruddock was more results orientated at that level while Carolan's brief was player development for the seniors. It took a while to take root but it was sprouting wings and I was disappointed when he left. I got no idea what the new guys ideas are or even what there objectives are.
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