Ireland Under 20 2017

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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby wixfjord » May 27th, 2017, 5:02 pm

neiliog93 wrote:It's a pity we didn't offer him an academy place, hooker is a weak area academy wise (and looking like so even in the senior team).


Agreed, he seems like a cracking hooker.
Think I heard on here that he was a bit of a header and there was some friction with Leinster coaching staff? Might be something to do with it.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 27th, 2017, 5:10 pm

wixfjord wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Removing him from the squad after being named in it is very very harsh, not sure I've ever heard of it happening before, and wouldn't exactly make him eager to come back into the system in a few years. It's very short sighted but my main issue is just how a 19/20 year old kid has been treated, it's appalling.


Not if he made this decision after the squad was announced.
It's harsh, but he's English qualified and it sounds like he has made his mind up to try play for England. His call, but you can't expect the IRFU to bring feelings into it.


I wouldn't agree with that, sounds to me like he's just picked Saracens over Connacht which is absolutely understandable.

Feelings might be important if we go looking for him in two or three years and he just gives the V sign because of how he was treated.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 27th, 2017, 5:13 pm

wixfjord wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:It's a pity we didn't offer him an academy place, hooker is a weak area academy wise (and looking like so even in the senior team).


Agreed, he seems like a cracking hooker.
Think I heard on here that he was a bit of a header and there was some friction with Leinster coaching staff? Might be something to do with it.


Without knowing anything myself I do feel like there must be more to it like that alright.

The IRFU aren't shy about clarifying these things since Nucifora came on board so I'd say we'll hear more shortly.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby simonokeeffe » May 27th, 2017, 5:22 pm

whole point of exiles is to bring players into the Irish system ie the provinces not out of it so we may as well use JRWC to develop other players who are going to be in it
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Dave Cahill » May 27th, 2017, 5:23 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I can't believe the IRFU would do that to a young guy like this.


The same IRFU where a senior official once asked a young player if he was going 'to play for Ireland or take the shilling'?
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby wixfjord » May 27th, 2017, 5:40 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Removing him from the squad after being named in it is very very harsh, not sure I've ever heard of it happening before, and wouldn't exactly make him eager to come back into the system in a few years. It's very short sighted but my main issue is just how a 19/20 year old kid has been treated, it's appalling.


Not if he made this decision after the squad was announced.
It's harsh, but he's English qualified and it sounds like he has made his mind up to try play for England. His call, but you can't expect the IRFU to bring feelings into it.


I wouldn't agree with that, sounds to me like he's just picked Saracens over Connacht which is absolutely understandable.

Feelings might be important if we go looking for him in two or three years and he just gives the V sign because of how he was treated.


Wouldn't agree with what?
It's definitely understandable, I'd make the same decision.
But it's his decision, so he takes the consequences. If, as Indo are reporting, the chance to play for England is enticing him, then there's no way we should bring him to an U20s RWC, right?
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Dave Cahill » May 27th, 2017, 5:55 pm

In fairness, and to paraphrase my late grandmother, 'the indo says more than its prayers'.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 27th, 2017, 5:59 pm

I just don't believe that a lad from Dundalk who's not an elite talent would have his head turned by England when their hooker situation is better than ours. I reckon it just comes down to Connacht or Saracens.

No I wouldn't kick him out of the squad for picking Saracens. I don't think it's fair and also would rather have a stronger pack because of the knock on effect that that can have, particularly in light of the injuries we have. If we were going to go down this route then I'd have made the decision before the squad was picked.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby wixfjord » May 27th, 2017, 6:01 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I just don't believe that a lad from Dundalk who's not an elite talent would have his head turned by England when their hooker situation is better than ours. I reckon it just comes down to Connacht or Saracens.

No I wouldn't kick him out of the squad for picking Saracens. I don't think it's fair and also would rather have a stronger pack because of the knock on effect that that can have, particularly in light of the injuries we have. If we were going to go down this route then I'd have made the decision before the squad was picked.


But how can you make a decision based upon something that hasn't happened? Judging on the above link he made the decision after squad was announced.
Are you saying you'd rather if they had flat out made the decision to not pick him before he had made his mind up?
Last edited by wixfjord on May 27th, 2017, 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 27th, 2017, 6:03 pm

Easily.

"If you don't commit to us before the squad is named then we can't pick you"
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby wixfjord » May 27th, 2017, 6:24 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Easily.

"If you don't commit to us before the squad is named then we can't pick you"


But then you'd have the same complaint about the IRFU not understanding his feelings!
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby ronk » May 27th, 2017, 6:32 pm

Seems an incredibly spiteful thing to do and might end up costing more in bad karma than it gains in showing bloodymindedness.

Maybe if he had lied to get on the tour it's something else, but it should take a lot to get dropped off a tour after making plans.

At his age we had a chance of getting him back later but that's not likely now and it might sour morale on the touring party.

U20 RWC is not a development tour, its as close as some guys get and a good tournament can help get academy places.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 27th, 2017, 6:37 pm

No, I wouldn't.

I think he could understandably be pissed off and upset about being dropped like this, don't see any issue with him being given advance warning and time to make a decision. Regardless of the outcome it would have been a perfectly reasonable process for both the player and the team's preparation. Not really sure how you can't see that that would have been preferable. It's not like the IRFU weren't aware of this and couldn't plan for it.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby dropkick » May 27th, 2017, 9:06 pm

At least with all the U19s going, we should be strong next season.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby sunshiner1 » May 28th, 2017, 10:07 am

Heard from a few folks in Galway that he got offered a fairly good academy contract moneywise by Saracens. A lot more than he would make if he went to Connacht or Leinster.
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Armchair » May 28th, 2017, 10:51 am

wixfjord wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Removing him from the squad after being named in it is very very harsh, not sure I've ever heard of it happening before, and wouldn't exactly make him eager to come back into the system in a few years. It's very short sighted but my main issue is just how a 19/20 year old kid has been treated, it's appalling.


Not if he made this decision after the squad was announced.
It's harsh, but he's English qualified and it sounds like he has made his mind up to try play for England. His call, but you can't expect the IRFU to bring feelings into it.


Not sure he has any intentions of declaring for England he was hoping for a Leinster academy spot. Hard to support yourself on €8k a year in Connacht with no accomadation thrown in. Disgraceful treatment and no different than 10 or 11 on that squad who would jump at an offer from a top English team and actively trying to do so. I am sure it will sour him to IRFU as he also had left sub academy before 6 nations
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby simonokeeffe » May 28th, 2017, 11:57 am

sunshiner1 wrote:Heard from a few folks in Galway that he got offered a fairly good academy contract moneywise by Saracens. A lot more than he would make if he went to Connacht or Leinster.


Did a bit of digging and PRL academy deals are up to £20k a year. If theres accomm provided by the club then thats pretty good
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby BrockBoy » May 28th, 2017, 9:49 pm

Armchair wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Removing him from the squad after being named in it is very very harsh, not sure I've ever heard of it happening before, and wouldn't exactly make him eager to come back into the system in a few years. It's very short sighted but my main issue is just how a 19/20 year old kid has been treated, it's appalling.


Not if he made this decision after the squad was announced.
It's harsh, but he's English qualified and it sounds like he has made his mind up to try play for England. His call, but you can't expect the IRFU to bring feelings into it.


Not sure he has any intentions of declaring for England he was hoping for a Leinster academy spot. Hard to support yourself on €8k a year in Connacht with no accomadation thrown in. Disgraceful treatment and no different than 10 or 11 on that squad who would jump at an offer from a top English team and actively trying to do so. I am sure it will sour him to IRFU as he also had left sub academy before 6 nations

So he was hoping for a Leinster academy spot but he left the sub academy mid season?
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby Armchair » May 29th, 2017, 5:38 pm

Clash of personalities with Fegan the conditioning coach as he was travelling from Dundalk each day and couldn't commit to early morning s&c classes
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Re: Ireland Under 20 2017

Postby El Diablo » May 30th, 2017, 9:34 am

ormond lad wrote:World Championship squad named

Forwards
Paul Boyle (Lansdowne FC/Leinster) Captain
Charlie Connolly (Dublin University FC/Leinster)
Joey Conway (UL Bohemians RFC/Munster)
Gavin Coombes (Young Munster RFC/Munster)
Peter Cooper (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Caelan Doris (St. Mary's College RFC/Leinster)
Oisin Dowling (Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Jordan Duggan (Naas RFC/Leinster)*
John Foley (Shannon RFC/Munster)
Ronan Kelleher (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Sean Masterson (Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
Tadgh McElroy (Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Greg McGrath (Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Marcus Rea (Queen's University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
Jack Regan (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Fineen Wycherley (Young Munster RFC/Munster)

Backs
Angus Curtis (Queen's University Belfast RFC/Ulster)*
Conor Dean (UCD RFC/Leinster)*
Ciaran Frawley (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Colm Hogan (Dublin University FC/Munster)
Jack Kelly (Dublin University FC/Leinster)
David McCarthy (Garryowen FC/Munster)*
Gavin Mullin (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Calvin Nash (Young Munster/Munster)
Jack Stafford (Shannon RFC/Munster)
Jonathan Stewart (Queen's University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
Michael Silvester (Dublin University FC/Leinster)*
Alan Tynan (Young Munster/Munster)*

unavailable due to injury
Cillian Gallagher, Bill Johnston, Jordan Larmour, Johnny McPhillips, Tommy O'Brien

Alan Tynan is injured I hear. I dont think he traveled in the end. Conor Dean will probably start tomorrow (12.30 Irish time I think???) against Italy with Angus Curtis on the bench.
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